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Re: Resources to learn common lisp?

From Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.lang.lisp
Subject Re: Resources to learn common lisp?
Date 2026-06-16 15:29 -0700
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <871pe65dbt.fsf@nightsong.com> (permalink)
References (12 earlier) <110l0v9$3av52$1@dont-email.me> <jwvbjdd5gx3.fsf-monnier+comp.lang.lisp@gnu.org> <110nf0q$3vra6$3@dont-email.me> <jwv7bo02aiq.fsf-monnier+comp.lang.lisp@gnu.org> <110q516$o45a$7@dont-email.me>

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Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
> Perl was probably the pioneer here. Implementations use garbage
> collection simply because it’s so much easier to do, nothing more.

Have you actually implemented both?  I feel like a bunch of stuff you're
saying come from inexperience.  

In my case I've implemented an Awk with reference counting and later a
Lisp with GC.  I used RC in the Awk because at that time, I didn't know
how to write a GC.  The GC in the Lisp that I wrote was quite simple but
I still wouldn't say that it was easier than RC.  Of course "serious"
GC's are very intricate and not remotely comparable to the naive
reference counting in something like Python.  It's ridiculous to say
it's easier.

Here's Simon Marlow et al's 2008 paper on the GHC garbage collector:

https://simonmar.github.io/bib/papers/parallel-gc.pdf

I have a vague recollection that the GHC GC was later redone to be even
more sophisticated.  And it's nowhere near as fancy as the GC's used in
Java which have gotten a lot more development energy.

If of any interest, the current "big" Python implementation is CPython
and it uses reference counting.  MicroPython, a smaller Python version
for microcontrollers, uses GC.  Lua, considered a smaller-footprint and
more embeddable language than Python, also uses GC.  MicroPython ran on
MCU's with as little as 16KB of ram (BBC Micro:bit v1) though that was
very cramped.  It's reasonably usable with 32KB.  I don't think CPython
could run at all on those machines.

I'd be interested to know why CPython uses RC.  If I ever meet Guido
I'll try to remember to ask him.  I do have the impression that
immediate reclamation for stuff like file descriptors was claimed as a
big advantage, before Python itself got RAII in the "with" statement.

Slightly related, do you even use Lisp?  I think your picture of how
Lisp programs use memory is also unrealistic.

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Thread

Resources to learn common lisp? Mario Rosell <mario@mariorosell.es> - 2026-02-20 22:53 +0100
  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2026-02-20 22:00 +0000
    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Mario Rosell <mario@mariorosell.es> - 2026-02-21 12:25 +0100
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-02-21 10:24 -0500
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-21 21:30 +0000
        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Mario Rosell <mario@mariorosell.es> - 2026-02-22 01:08 +0100
          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-22 04:59 +0000
            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-02-22 10:59 +0530
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-22 21:48 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-08 12:43 -0400
        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-08 12:41 -0400
          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-08 20:02 +0000
            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 00:23 -0400
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-09 06:28 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-09 06:32 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 12:27 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-11 17:33 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 12:16 -0400
            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 06:53 +0000
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Axel Reichert <mail@axel-reichert.de> - 2026-06-09 12:07 +0200
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-10 00:14 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-17 00:01 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-17 05:53 +0000
                [OT] Disappearing documentation (was: Re: Resources to learn common lisp?) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 09:06 +0100
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-11 17:22 +0000
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-13 13:59 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 00:55 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-14 01:43 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 05:45 +0000
          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 00:35 +0000
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-08 12:37 -0400
        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 00:33 +0000
          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 00:22 -0400
          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Alan Bawden <alan@csail.mit.edu> - 2026-06-09 01:22 -0400
            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-09 06:17 +0000
            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 06:50 +0000
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 12:40 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-11 00:26 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 22:10 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-16 21:37 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Joerg Mertens <joerg-mertens@t-online.de> - 2026-06-17 12:04 +0200
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-06-17 11:17 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 13:57 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 01:06 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 09:17 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-18 13:32 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-06-11 05:27 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 22:12 -0400
            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 12:24 -0400
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-06-11 05:57 -0400
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Alan Bawden <alan@csail.mit.edu> - 2026-06-11 21:07 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-12 13:06 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-13 00:13 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-13 07:25 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-13 08:25 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-13 08:46 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-13 08:52 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 05:57 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-15 10:10 +0100
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 05:56 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 11:46 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 01:03 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 07:52 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 20:56 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Alan Bawden <alan@csail.mit.edu> - 2026-06-13 00:55 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-13 07:43 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 21:37 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-13 13:09 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 01:02 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 10:12 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 22:54 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Alan Bawden <alan@csail.mit.edu> - 2026-06-17 00:07 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 08:33 +0000
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-12 12:42 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 23:32 -0400
          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-09 09:36 -0400
            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-10 00:06 +0000
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-10 08:43 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-11 00:22 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-11 08:57 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-12 00:16 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 21:42 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-15 01:15 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-15 05:42 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-15 11:19 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-16 00:18 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-16 03:27 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-16 01:25 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 10:13 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-18 13:57 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 01:11 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-18 02:30 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 09:32 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-18 14:15 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 23:53 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-17 05:55 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-17 01:43 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 01:07 +0000
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-06-11 06:37 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-13 13:30 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 00:58 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-14 01:46 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-06-15 06:59 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-15 12:25 -0700
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-11 17:42 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-12 00:16 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-12 12:34 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-13 00:11 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-06-13 04:06 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-13 13:37 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-06-13 21:25 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-13 15:26 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 05:37 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-15 01:34 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-15 05:43 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-15 11:23 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-16 00:23 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-16 03:29 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-16 04:59 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-16 15:10 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 13:34 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-13 08:36 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 01:43 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-14 10:36 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 23:55 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-14 18:04 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 12:33 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-15 09:51 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-16 00:23 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-16 03:14 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-16 15:29 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-16 10:23 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-16 21:34 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-17 15:02 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 04:14 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-14 13:14 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 02:30 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 11:46 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-18 15:34 +0000
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-13 13:22 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 01:55 +0000
  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tpeplt <tpeplt@gmail.com> - 2026-02-20 17:44 -0500
    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Mario Rosell <mario@mariorosell.es> - 2026-02-21 12:30 +0100
  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-02-20 23:50 +0000
    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-02-21 00:24 +0000
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-02-21 11:36 +0100
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Mario Rosell <mario@mariorosell.es> - 2026-02-21 12:44 +0100
  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-03-31 17:47 -0400
    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-31 23:41 +0000
    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tpeplt <tpeplt@gmail.com> - 2026-04-01 13:23 -0400
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 21:59 -0400
  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Peri Didaskalou <pfd@torfree.net> - 2026-05-01 10:52 -0400
  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Peri Didaskalou <pfd@torfree.net> - 2026-05-01 10:57 -0400
  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Peri Didaskalou <pfd@torfree.net> - 2026-05-01 11:06 -0400
  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-01 14:56 -0400
    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? "Robert B. Carleton" <rbc@rbcarleton.net> - 2026-06-01 23:02 +0000
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-02 21:32 -0400
        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-03 03:16 +0000

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