Re: Resources to learn common lisp?

From	Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.lisp
Subject	Re: Resources to learn common lisp?
Date	2026-06-15 12:25 -0700
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<87ldcf61yd.fsf@nightsong.com> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <pl1l2lhuuc2eogbrqno9fgc99pnlulog0v@4ax.com> <87ldci89p4.fsf@nightsong.com> <110kucd$3a32m$4@dont-email.me> <87jys17bms.fsf@nightsong.com> <1alv2lpue9vhmus2fk7fkc7r04gplmkub7@4ax.com>

Show all headers | View raw

George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> writes:
> But remember that when a (still valid) cache line is replaced, the
> data must be pushed to a higher level of cache, and ultimately written
> out to memory.  These mechinations use up memory system bandwidth that
> might have gone to doing something else.

Yeah there seems to be no way to invalidate data cache without flushing
it.  Web search finds several people looking for ways to do it and it
just isn't there.  But, if you write a cached location, then overwrite
the location before the cache is flushed, the value you originally wrote
doesn't get written out.  Dunno if that helps.  It looks like ARM has a
mechanism for it, though the instructions are privileged:

https://developer.arm.com/documentation/den0042/0100/Caches/Invalidating-and-cleaning-cache-memory

I might sometime look into whether RISC-V has anything like that.

x86 ironically enough has a way to invalidate lines of the instruction
cache, but not the data cache.  You're supposed to use it if you write
self-modifying code.  Zomg.

In a semispace GC, I guess on the output side, you really do want to
push out the cached stuff you have written.  On the input side you could
potentially optimize by overlapping some cache loads using the x86
PREFETCHW instruction, but maybe the stuff you want is already in cache.

Anyway, that was for Haskell, which generates garbage by the bucketful.
I don't know if it's similar for Lisp.  Lawrence D. mentioned optimizing
Java programs by avoiding allocation, and I know that Lisp was like that
too, at least once upon a time.  Thus things like NCONC and NREVERSE,
the reviled LOOP macro destructively appending to lists, etc.  Scheme
tried to cultivate a more immutable style and I don't know what that
cost in GC overhead.

Someone mentioned observing GC using up to 30% of a Lisp program's cpu
cycles but usually not more.  That's consistent with what I've seen with
GHC.

Thread

Resources to learn common lisp? Mario Rosell <mario@mariorosell.es> - 2026-02-20 22:53 +0100
  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2026-02-20 22:00 +0000
    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Mario Rosell <mario@mariorosell.es> - 2026-02-21 12:25 +0100
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-02-21 10:24 -0500
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-21 21:30 +0000
        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Mario Rosell <mario@mariorosell.es> - 2026-02-22 01:08 +0100
          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-22 04:59 +0000
            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-02-22 10:59 +0530
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-22 21:48 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-08 12:43 -0400
        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-08 12:41 -0400
          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-08 20:02 +0000
            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 00:23 -0400
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-09 06:28 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-09 06:32 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 12:27 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-11 17:33 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 12:16 -0400
            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 06:53 +0000
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Axel Reichert <mail@axel-reichert.de> - 2026-06-09 12:07 +0200
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-10 00:14 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-17 00:01 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-17 05:53 +0000
                [OT] Disappearing documentation (was: Re: Resources to learn common lisp?) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 09:06 +0100
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-11 17:22 +0000
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-13 13:59 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 00:55 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-14 01:43 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 05:45 +0000
          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 00:35 +0000
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-08 12:37 -0400
        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 00:33 +0000
          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 00:22 -0400
          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Alan Bawden <alan@csail.mit.edu> - 2026-06-09 01:22 -0400
            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-09 06:17 +0000
            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 06:50 +0000
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 12:40 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-11 00:26 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 22:10 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-16 21:37 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Joerg Mertens <joerg-mertens@t-online.de> - 2026-06-17 12:04 +0200
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-06-17 11:17 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 13:57 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 01:06 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 09:17 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-06-11 05:27 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 22:12 -0400
            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 12:24 -0400
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-06-11 05:57 -0400
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Alan Bawden <alan@csail.mit.edu> - 2026-06-11 21:07 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-12 13:06 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-13 00:13 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-13 07:25 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-13 08:25 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-13 08:46 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-13 08:52 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 05:57 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-15 10:10 +0100
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 05:56 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 11:46 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 01:03 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 07:52 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 20:56 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Alan Bawden <alan@csail.mit.edu> - 2026-06-13 00:55 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-13 07:43 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 21:37 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-13 13:09 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 01:02 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 10:12 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 22:54 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Alan Bawden <alan@csail.mit.edu> - 2026-06-17 00:07 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 08:33 +0000
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-12 12:42 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 23:32 -0400
          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-09 09:36 -0400
            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-10 00:06 +0000
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-10 08:43 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-11 00:22 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-11 08:57 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-12 00:16 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 21:42 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-15 01:15 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-15 05:42 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-15 11:19 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-16 00:18 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-16 03:27 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-16 01:25 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 10:13 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 01:11 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-18 02:30 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 09:32 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 23:53 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-17 05:55 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-17 01:43 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 01:07 +0000
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-06-11 06:37 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-13 13:30 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 00:58 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-14 01:46 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-06-15 06:59 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-15 12:25 -0700
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-11 17:42 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-12 00:16 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-12 12:34 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-13 00:11 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-06-13 04:06 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-13 13:37 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-06-13 21:25 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-13 15:26 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 05:37 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-15 01:34 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-15 05:43 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-15 11:23 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-16 00:23 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-16 03:29 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-16 04:59 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-16 15:10 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 13:34 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-13 08:36 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 01:43 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-14 10:36 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 23:55 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-14 18:04 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 12:33 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-15 09:51 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-16 00:23 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-16 03:14 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-16 15:29 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-16 10:23 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-16 21:34 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-17 15:02 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 04:14 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-14 13:14 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 02:30 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 11:46 +0000
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-13 13:22 -0700
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 01:55 +0000
  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tpeplt <tpeplt@gmail.com> - 2026-02-20 17:44 -0500
    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Mario Rosell <mario@mariorosell.es> - 2026-02-21 12:30 +0100
  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-02-20 23:50 +0000
    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-02-21 00:24 +0000
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-02-21 11:36 +0100
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Mario Rosell <mario@mariorosell.es> - 2026-02-21 12:44 +0100
  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-03-31 17:47 -0400
    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-31 23:41 +0000
    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tpeplt <tpeplt@gmail.com> - 2026-04-01 13:23 -0400
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 21:59 -0400
  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Peri Didaskalou <pfd@torfree.net> - 2026-05-01 10:52 -0400
  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Peri Didaskalou <pfd@torfree.net> - 2026-05-01 10:57 -0400
  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Peri Didaskalou <pfd@torfree.net> - 2026-05-01 11:06 -0400
  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-01 14:56 -0400
    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? "Robert B. Carleton" <rbc@rbcarleton.net> - 2026-06-01 23:02 +0000
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-02 21:32 -0400
        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-03 03:16 +0000

csiph-web