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Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system

From Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com>
Newsgroups uk.telecom
Subject Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system
Date 2026-02-12 15:24 +0000
Organization Frantic
Message-ID <82ms1eugqr.fsf@example.com> (permalink)
References <82v7g2uk0q.fsf@example.com> <ytg*xO3yA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

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Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:

> Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>> I read that VM uses SIP for its business services, but for residential
>> services it uses its own digital voice system. Why does it do this you
>> might wonder? Call me a cynic, but I would say it is so that it can
>> never interoperate with the SIP telephone network, and they can always
>> charge a connection fee. This is the same approach of Google and Amazon,
>> just refuse to co-operate and so make life difficult for customers.
>> 
>> So there it is, we've destroyed the telephone network and handed
>> ourselves over to corporations to feed parasitically on us. All this was
>> started by Margaret Thatcher.
>> 
>> Without these arbitrary contrived obsticals there would be no reason for
>> charging separately for voice calls as if they are different from any
>> other internet service.
>
> I don't have any particular information about Virgin's implementation, but
> that sounds similar to all the other domestic broadband providers.  You pay
> for 'a landline' and you get a socket on the back of the router that
> provides it.  You get a similar level of service as you did with a copper
> landline - no more no less.
>
> They use SIP internally but they don't expose that to customers.  For some
> it's possible to work out the SIP credentials and connect your own SIP
> endpoint, but they would rather you didn't do that.  I expect Virgin also
> use SIP behind the scenes.
>
> It doesn't sound surprising to me.  Landline telecoms is not a great revenue
> earner for ISPs any more - people just don't use them enough.  But what they
> really don't want is having to support domestic users using their own SIP
> clients - it's just too complex to setup and debug.
>
> Just like ISPs prefer not to run their own email service nowadays - it's
> not worth the hassle.
>
> If you want to use SIP, port your number to a third party provider who
> allows you the level of access you desire.  Many have been discussed in
> these groups.  You just pay them acording to your requirements.  Calls are
> not free and never have been - if you want free voice chat then use some
> other service like Whatsapp or Facetime.
>

I think what I am trying to do is work out which charges are for which
costs. To answer your last point first, I have already transferred my
line to SIP, and in fact I have two SIP services configured on the same
router. But some of the people I phone use Virgin Media, and they are
not the type of people who will be configuring routers.

The problem of configuration could be solved by providing preconfigured
equipment which has been tested.

So considering the costs, I asked before somewhere why we need to pay
for calls if we are all on VOIP, which we will be presumably by the end
of January '27. I accept that services cost money, but we are all paying
for the fibre broadband. So why are there additional costs for using it?
I think you replied to me before that it is because of connection
charges.

As I understand it, if you know a SIP address,
e.g. 666666@voipfine.co.uk, then you can phone it directly using your
own SIP account. How is this different from connecting to Wikipedia, or
downloading a file? Why does it have to be a special case internet
service with special case charges? It's not like Netflix, Netflix makes
films, and making films costs money. But I don't pay my ISP to watch
Netflix, or BBC Iplayer. Perhaps someone does? But the data transferred
is considerably more than for a voice call.

I think corporations would like to move to a monopolistic or walled
garden situation, as Whatsapp is enjoying. Imagine if everyone in the
world decided to use the same open source software to make calls. We
just get an account and tell people the ID. It runs on smartphones and
desktops. That's it, who needs a landline? How much would a call cost
per minute? Nothing, if you measure it like that. But we all pay for the
fibre.

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Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-12 14:13 +0000
  Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-02-12 14:49 +0000
    Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-12 15:24 +0000
      Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-02-12 15:30 +0000
      Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> - 2026-02-12 17:00 +0000
        Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-12 17:51 +0000
        Interconnection with POTS (was: Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system) "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-13 01:44 +0000
          Re: Interconnection with POTS (was: Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system) David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2026-02-13 16:54 +0000
            Re: Interconnection with POTS David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-02-13 20:57 +0000
              Re: Interconnection with POTS Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-13 21:17 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2026-02-13 22:38 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-14 09:27 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> - 2026-02-16 16:52 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-16 16:57 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> - 2026-02-16 17:29 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-16 17:49 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-17 08:42 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-02-17 08:58 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-17 10:07 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-17 10:11 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-17 13:24 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-02-17 13:55 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-17 14:35 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-17 21:39 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> - 2026-02-17 21:46 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-02-18 10:49 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-18 12:05 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-18 13:13 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-18 14:36 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-02-18 15:30 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-18 17:50 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> - 2026-02-18 12:05 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-18 13:14 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-02-18 10:47 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-18 13:19 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-02-18 13:25 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-02-18 15:34 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Julian Macassey <julian@n6are.com> - 2026-02-25 12:56 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-25 13:20 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-02-25 14:01 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-25 14:14 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-02-25 19:31 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2026-02-25 19:55 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> - 2026-02-26 13:16 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2026-02-26 17:11 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-16 19:28 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-17 08:39 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> - 2026-02-16 17:18 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-02-18 10:33 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-02-18 10:38 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-02-18 10:56 +0000
              Re: Interconnection with POTS Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> - 2026-02-13 23:09 +0000
            Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-14 03:12 +0000
              Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-14 10:13 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-14 15:28 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-02-14 16:51 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-14 19:14 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-14 22:05 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-02-15 09:25 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-15 12:31 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-15 20:29 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-14 19:11 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-02-15 12:00 +0100
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-15 20:34 +0000
          Re: Interconnection with POTS (was: Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system) Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-02-15 11:58 +0100
            Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-15 12:39 +0000
              Re: Interconnection with POTS Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> - 2026-02-15 18:24 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-16 16:35 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> - 2026-02-16 19:35 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> - 2026-02-17 09:28 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-02-18 10:44 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-02-24 11:15 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Davey <davey@example.invalid> - 2026-02-24 12:45 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-02-18 10:28 +0000
            Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-15 20:33 +0000
              Re: Interconnection with POTS David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-02-15 20:43 +0000
              Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-16 16:45 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-02-16 19:15 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-17 08:36 +0000
      Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-02-15 11:55 +0100
  Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-12 18:23 +0000
  Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-13 10:02 +0000
    Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-02-13 12:46 +0000
      Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-13 13:07 +0000
        Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-02-13 14:58 +0000
          Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-13 15:54 +0000
        Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-14 10:07 +0000
          Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> - 2026-02-14 11:04 +0000
            Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-02-14 13:24 +0000
              Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> - 2026-02-14 16:01 +0000
                Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-14 16:46 +0000
                Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-14 19:12 +0000
                Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-14 22:08 +0000
                Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-02-14 22:42 +0000
            Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-14 15:32 +0000
          Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Julian Macassey <julian@n6are.com> - 2026-02-16 13:55 +0000
            Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> - 2026-02-16 14:24 +0000
              Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-16 15:24 +0000
                Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> - 2026-02-16 16:06 +0000
                Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-16 16:17 +0000
            Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-02-16 15:29 +0000
            Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-17 08:32 +0000
  Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-02-15 11:53 +0100
    Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-15 13:21 +0000
      Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-02-15 16:33 +0100

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