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Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system

From Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com>
Newsgroups uk.telecom
Subject Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system
Date 2026-02-13 15:54 +0000
Organization Frantic
Message-ID <82fr74skpa.fsf@example.com> (permalink)
References <82v7g2uk0q.fsf@example.com> <10mmss6$27ag8$1@dont-email.me> <10mn6f2$260no$1@dont-email.me> <82qzqossgb.fsf@example.com> <CKb*+78yA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

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Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:

> Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>> David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> writes:
>> 
>> >> On 12/02/2026 14:13, Richmond wrote:
>> >
>> >>> So there it is, we've destroyed the telephone network and handed
>> >>> ourselves over to corporations to feed parasitically on us. All
>> >>> this was started by Margaret Thatcher.
>> >>>
>> >
>> > I don't believe its "destroyed", in fact I feel its in a much
>> > better place than when it was run by the GPO, there were no
>> > socketed phones, only GPO approved and owned devices, and long
>> > distance calls were at a premium.
>
> Tech in the 80s (microprocessors) was much advanced from the 70s
> (mechanical switching), and tech today is much advanced from the 80s.
> It's not really a fair comparison because advancing tech has expanded
> network capacity and made the cost of voice calls much, much cheaper
> (even if the price has not followed suit).
>
>> What we are moving toward is not a telephone network, it is the
>> internet. The telephone network has been dissolved into just another
>> internet service.
>
> Basically you don't have to worry about long distance call routing any
> more, you just get the internet to do it for you.  The original IETF
> pioneers decided it was easier to build out the network that it was to
> work out how to bill for it, and that has more or less held.
>
>> With genuine competition people will stop paying for calls and use
>> some free software. But genuine competition isn't Google Meet or
>> Whatsapp, where you have to determine which proprietary software the
>> recipient is using before calling.
>
> Long distance routing might be free, but running servers, endpoints
> and support are not free.  'Phone calls' have a usage-based billing
> model (eg wholesale call termination is about 0.1p/min for UK
> landlines and 0.5-1p/min for mobiles) which covers the recipient
> network's costs, with the remainder of the bill going to cover the
> costs of the initiating network.
>
> Google Meet and Whatsapp are cross-subsidised from business
> subscriptions or advertisting, and Facetime is cross-subsidised from
> hardware sales - and they are notable for offering minimal support.
> They're free at the point of use because they're a power play in
> keeping you in the Google/Meta/Apple ecosystem so they can harvest
> your data or make it undesirable to buy services/hardware from another
> vendor.
>
> 'Phone calls' may have a low cost, but it seems the market is
> bifurcating into domestic telecoms, where the cost of running the
> network (notably support) is spread across fewer and fewer customers,
> and business telecoms which is about high volumes and the customer
> doing more of their own support.  If you don't want to be gouged it's
> up to you to learn how to make the leap to the latter.
>
> Theo

I pay for my infrastructure with my broadband subscription. Other people
pay for theirs, that's how the internet works. I don't have to pay a
connection fee to connect to a website. I don't pay per minute to
download.

Those connection fees you quote above are justified by ADSL and Mobile
perhaps, but not by VOIP to VOIP.

Here, listen to free UDP packets:

https://onlineradiobox.com/us/wkct/?cs=us.977todayshits

(unfortunate contatenation of todays and hits)

Currently I phone people free if they are on Signal, or Google Meet, or
Zoom, or Teams, and I pay about 1.5ppm if they don't know what they are
on or how it works, and I pay 3ppm for mobile. I can't do any better
than that as things stand. No one is going to use Matrix or whatever,
they won't understand it.

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Thread

Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-12 14:13 +0000
  Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-02-12 14:49 +0000
    Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-12 15:24 +0000
      Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-02-12 15:30 +0000
      Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> - 2026-02-12 17:00 +0000
        Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-12 17:51 +0000
        Interconnection with POTS (was: Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system) "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-13 01:44 +0000
          Re: Interconnection with POTS (was: Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system) David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2026-02-13 16:54 +0000
            Re: Interconnection with POTS David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-02-13 20:57 +0000
              Re: Interconnection with POTS Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-13 21:17 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2026-02-13 22:38 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-14 09:27 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> - 2026-02-16 16:52 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-16 16:57 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> - 2026-02-16 17:29 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-16 17:49 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-17 08:42 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-02-17 08:58 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-17 10:07 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-17 10:11 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-17 13:24 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-02-17 13:55 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-17 14:35 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-17 21:39 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> - 2026-02-17 21:46 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-02-18 10:49 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-18 12:05 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-18 13:13 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-18 14:36 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-02-18 15:30 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-18 17:50 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> - 2026-02-18 12:05 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-18 13:14 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-02-18 10:47 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-18 13:19 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-02-18 13:25 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-02-18 15:34 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Julian Macassey <julian@n6are.com> - 2026-02-25 12:56 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-25 13:20 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-02-25 14:01 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-25 14:14 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-02-25 19:31 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2026-02-25 19:55 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> - 2026-02-26 13:16 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2026-02-26 17:11 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-16 19:28 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-17 08:39 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> - 2026-02-16 17:18 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-02-18 10:33 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-02-18 10:38 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-02-18 10:56 +0000
              Re: Interconnection with POTS Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> - 2026-02-13 23:09 +0000
            Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-14 03:12 +0000
              Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-14 10:13 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-14 15:28 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-02-14 16:51 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-14 19:14 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-14 22:05 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-02-15 09:25 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-15 12:31 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-15 20:29 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-14 19:11 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-02-15 12:00 +0100
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-15 20:34 +0000
          Re: Interconnection with POTS (was: Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system) Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-02-15 11:58 +0100
            Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-15 12:39 +0000
              Re: Interconnection with POTS Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> - 2026-02-15 18:24 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-16 16:35 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Mike Humphrey <mail@michaelhumphrey.me.uk> - 2026-02-16 19:35 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> - 2026-02-17 09:28 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-02-18 10:44 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-02-24 11:15 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS Davey <davey@example.invalid> - 2026-02-24 12:45 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-02-18 10:28 +0000
            Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-15 20:33 +0000
              Re: Interconnection with POTS David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-02-15 20:43 +0000
              Re: Interconnection with POTS "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-16 16:45 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-02-16 19:15 +0000
                Re: Interconnection with POTS The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-17 08:36 +0000
      Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-02-15 11:55 +0100
  Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-12 18:23 +0000
  Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-13 10:02 +0000
    Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-02-13 12:46 +0000
      Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-13 13:07 +0000
        Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-02-13 14:58 +0000
          Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-13 15:54 +0000
        Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-14 10:07 +0000
          Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> - 2026-02-14 11:04 +0000
            Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-02-14 13:24 +0000
              Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> - 2026-02-14 16:01 +0000
                Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-14 16:46 +0000
                Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-14 19:12 +0000
                Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-14 22:08 +0000
                Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-02-14 22:42 +0000
            Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-02-14 15:32 +0000
          Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Julian Macassey <julian@n6are.com> - 2026-02-16 13:55 +0000
            Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> - 2026-02-16 14:24 +0000
              Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-16 15:24 +0000
                Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> - 2026-02-16 16:06 +0000
                Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-16 16:17 +0000
            Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-02-16 15:29 +0000
            Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-17 08:32 +0000
  Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-02-15 11:53 +0100
    Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-02-15 13:21 +0000
      Re: Virgin Media's Digital Voice system Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-02-15 16:33 +0100

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