Re: Which standard?

From	anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Which standard?
Date	2012-04-30 13:59 +0000
Organization	Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID	<2012Apr30.155927@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <slrnjpp531.7ra.zbigniew2011REMOVE@Tichy.myhome.org> <p_adnUjVPr4BHQHSnZ2dnUVZ_q2dnZ2d@supernews.com> <slrnjpq96v.3br.zbigniew2011REMOVE@Tichy.myhome.org> <_6CdnWdTP4v1lgDSnZ2dnUVZ_qidnZ2d@supernews.com> <4f9d18f2.313007082@192.168.0.50>

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stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) writes:
>The problem is that nobody (including MPE) removed their version
>of NOT from their implementations - it was perfectly legal to
>leave it in.

Gforth never contained NOT, but then we only started after it was
clear that NOT was not in ANS Forth.

>I have long believed that marking words as obsolete is not enough.

NOT was not made obsolete.  It is not in Forth-94 at all.

So not standardizing a word is obviously not a way to reserve the name
for future use.

One approach would have been to mark NOT as reserved word name, so
that systems providing NOT would be non-standard.  That might have
cooled the usage down enough to allow re-standardization now, but OTOH
there would then be no common practice.

And looking at the discussion, the problem is that there is no
consensus what NOT should mean, so existing implementations do not
come into play anyway (we already disagree before we come to that).

IMO the current approach works quite well: 0= is very explicit about
its meaning, and INVERT, too (to a lesser degree, though).  Why use
NOT?

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2011: http://www.euroforth.org/ef11/

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Re: Which standard? Marc Olschok <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2012-04-27 14:15 +0000
  Re: Which standard? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-04-27 15:30 -0700
    Re: Which standard? vandys@vsta.org - 2012-04-27 23:34 +0000
      Re: Which standard? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-04-27 17:25 -0700
  Re: Which standard? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-04-28 04:13 -0500
  Re: Which standard? Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2012-04-29 00:10 +0100
    Re: Which standard? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-28 12:53 -1000
      Re: Which standard? Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2012-04-29 01:06 +0100
        Re: Which standard? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-28 13:43 -1000
          Re: Which standard? Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2012-04-29 11:23 +0100
            Re: Which standard? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-04-29 04:35 -0500
              Re: Which standard? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-29 02:55 -0700
                Re: Which standard? Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2012-04-29 12:01 +0100
                Re: Which standard? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-04-29 05:17 -0500
                Re: Which standard? awegel@arcor.de (Alex Wegel) - 2012-04-29 14:11 +0200
                Re: Which standard? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-29 08:01 -1000
                Re: Which standard? awegel@arcor.de (Alex Wegel) - 2012-04-29 20:17 +0200
                Re: Which standard? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-29 11:18 -0700
                Re: Which standard? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-29 08:36 -1000
                Re: Which standard? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-29 11:57 -0700
                Re: Which standard? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-04-29 23:48 +0000
                Re: Which standard? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-29 13:38 -1000
                Re: Which standard? awegel@arcor.de (Alex Wegel) - 2012-04-30 14:33 +0200
                Re: Which standard? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-30 07:33 -1000
                Re: Which standard? awegel@arcor.de (Alex Wegel) - 2012-04-30 19:47 +0200
              Re: Which standard? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-04-29 10:36 +0000
                Re: Which standard? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-04-29 11:40 -0500
                Re: Which standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-04-30 13:59 +0000
                Re: Which standard? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-04-30 16:59 +0000
                Re: Which standard? "Peter Knaggs" <pjk@bcs.org.uk> - 2012-05-01 07:38 +0100
                Re: Which standard? Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-01 09:36 -0400
                Re: Which standard? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-02 10:30 +0000
                Re: Which standard? Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-05-02 08:33 -0400
                Re: Which standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-02 14:07 +0000
                Re: Which standard? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-04-30 11:50 -0700
                Re: Which standard? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-04-30 15:27 -0700
                Re: Which standard? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-04-30 13:39 -1000
                Re: Which standard? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-05-02 14:24 +0000
                Re: Which standard? Marc Olschok <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2012-05-03 17:17 +0000
                Re: Which standard? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-05-03 11:26 -0700
                Re: Which standard? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-05-03 09:16 -1000
                Re: Which standard? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-05-04 12:56 +0000
                Re: Which standard? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-05-03 14:27 -0500
                Re: Which standard? Jan Coombs <jan_2011-02@murray-microft.co.uk> - 2012-05-04 01:56 +0100
                Re: Which standard? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-05-04 06:25 -0700
          Re: Which standard? Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-04-29 07:18 -0400
            Re: Which standard? Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-04-29 07:35 -0400
            Re: Which standard? Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-04-29 23:56 +0000
              Re: Which standard? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-04-29 16:43 -0700
                Re: Which standard? Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-04-30 08:09 -0400
                Re: Which standard? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-04-30 08:16 -0500
                Re: Which standard? Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-04-30 10:27 -0400
                Re: Which standard? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-04-30 06:19 -0700
              Re: Which standard? Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-04-30 07:49 -0400
      Re: Which standard? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-04-28 16:23 -0700

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