Re: VAX

From	Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>
Newsgroups	comp.arch
Subject	Re: VAX
Date	2025-08-09 20:54 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<1078chf$1h2o7$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(6 earlier) <5oPkQ.82222$yi56.60687@fx11.iad> <1070pag$3l88t$2@dont-email.me> <2025Aug7.124750@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <1076vjf$16dki$1@dont-email.me> <nzIlQ.34884$rmY2.7863@fx45.iad>

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EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> schrieb:
> Thomas Koenig wrote:
>> Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> schrieb:
>>> Concerning the speed of the 82S100 PLA,
>>> <http://skoe.de/docs/c64-dissected/pla/c64_pla_dissected_a4ds.pdf>
>>> reports propagation delays of 25ns-35ns for specific signals in Table
>>> 3.4, and EricP found 50ns "max access" in the data sheet of the
>>> 82S100.  That does not sound too slow to be usable in a CPU with 200ns
>>> cycle time, so yes, one could have used that for the VAX.
>> 
>> Were there different versions, maybe?
>> 
>> https://deramp.com/downloads/mfe_archive/050-Component%20Specifications/Signetics-Philips/82S100%20FPGA.pdf
>> gives an I/O propagation delay of 80 ns max.
>
> Yes, must be different versions.
> I'm looking at this 1976 datasheet which says 50 ns max access:
>
> http://www.bitsavers.org/components/signetics/_dataBooks/1976_Signetics_Field_Programmable_Logic_Arrays.pdf

That is strange.  Why would they make the chip worse?

Unlesss... maybe somebody (a customer, or they themselves)
discovered that there may have been conditions where they could
only guarantee 80 ns.  Maybe a combination of tolerances to one
side and a certain logic programming, and they changed the
data sheet.

>
>> By comparison, you could get an eight-input NAND gate with a
>> maximum delay of 12 ns (the 74H030), so putting two in sequence
>> to simulate a PLA would have been significantly faster.
>> I can undersand people complaining that PALs were slow.
>
> The 82S100 PLA is logic equivalent to:
> - 16 inputs each with an optional input invertor,

Should be free coming from a Flip-Flop.

> - optionally wired to 48 16-input AND's,
> - optionally wired to 8 48-input OR's,

Those would be the the two layers of NAND gates, so depending
on which ones you chose, you have to add those.

> - with 8 optional XOR output invertors,

I don't find that in the diagrams (but I might be missing that,
I am not an expert at reading them).

> - driving 8 tri-state or open collector buffers.

A 74265 had switching times of max. 18 ns, driving 30
output loads, so that would be on top.

One question: Did TTL people actually use the "typical" delays
from the handbooks, or did they use the maximum delays for their
desings? Using anything below the maximum woud sound dangerous to
me, but maybe this was possible to a certain extent.

> So I count roughly 7 or 8 equivalent gate delays.

Another point... if you don't need 16 inputs or 8 outpus, you
are also paying a lot more.  If you have a 6-bit primary opcode,
you don't need a full 16 bits of input.

> Also the decoder would need a lot of these so I doubt we can afford the
> power and heat for H series. That 74H30 typical is 22 mW but the max
> looks like 110 mW max each (I_ol output low of 20 mA * 5.5V max).
> 74LS30 is 20 ns max, 44 mW max.
>
> Looking at a TI Bipolar Memory Data Manual from 1977,
> it was about the same speed as say a 256b mask programmable TTL ROM,
> 7488A 32w * 8b, 45 ns max access.

Hmm... did the VAX, for example, actually use them, or were they
using logic built from conventional chips?

-- 
This USENET posting was made without artificial intelligence,
artificial impertinence, artificial arrogance, artificial stupidity,
artificial flavorings or artificial colorants.

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                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-06-19 01:23 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-06-18 19:41 -0700
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> - 2025-06-19 05:36 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-06-18 23:10 -0700
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-06-19 09:35 -0400
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-06-19 15:11 +0000
                Re: Fortran, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-06-19 18:03 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> - 2025-06-19 18:53 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-06-19 23:18 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-06-20 15:13 -0400
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-06-20 20:35 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-06-20 21:27 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-06-20 21:09 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-06-20 21:48 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-06-21 14:57 -0400
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-06-19 23:36 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-06-20 01:32 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> - 2025-06-20 13:45 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-06-20 17:19 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-06-20 18:06 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-06-20 18:31 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-06-20 12:27 -0700
                Re: emulation, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-06-20 20:16 +0000
                Re: emulation, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-06-20 20:47 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-06-20 21:26 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-21 14:33 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-06-20 21:34 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> - 2025-06-20 23:57 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> - 2025-06-21 00:06 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> - 2025-06-21 00:13 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-06-20 23:20 -0700
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> - 2025-06-21 07:40 +0000
                Killer Micros (was: old and slow base and bounds) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-06-21 09:56 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-06-21 14:25 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-06-21 11:39 -0400
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-21 16:50 +0100
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-06-21 17:59 +0000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-06-21 18:26 +0000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-06-21 19:37 +0000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-06-21 20:27 +0000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-06-21 20:31 +0000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-06-21 20:36 +0000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-06-21 14:27 -0700
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-06-24 09:45 +0200
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-06-22 06:34 +0000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2025-06-22 11:52 +0200
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> - 2025-06-22 00:55 +0000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-01 14:22 +0100
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-07-01 17:39 +0000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-07-01 18:00 +0000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-06-22 20:23 +0000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2025-06-22 12:15 -1000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> - 2025-06-22 22:44 +0000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-06-23 09:23 -0400
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> - 2025-06-23 20:04 +0000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-06-23 23:16 +0000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-06-23 17:02 -0700
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> - 2025-06-24 00:25 +0000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-06-24 00:53 +0000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> - 2025-06-24 02:49 +0000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-06-24 06:21 +0000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-06-24 09:59 +0200
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-06-24 06:16 +0000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-06-24 14:12 +0000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-06-24 07:43 -0700
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> - 2025-06-24 14:53 +0000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-24 14:48 +0000
                Re: mainframe vs mini, old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-06-24 13:01 -0400
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> - 2025-06-21 17:49 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-21 14:36 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-06-19 13:37 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-06-19 17:52 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> - 2025-06-19 19:00 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-06-20 07:42 -0700
                Re: cramming 24 bits of address into 16 bits, was old and slow base and bounds John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-06-20 18:40 +0000
                Re: cramming 24 bits of address into 16 bits, was old and slow base and bounds EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-06-20 17:15 -0400
                Re: cramming 24 bits of address into 16 bits, was old and slow base and bounds Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-06-20 21:30 +0000
                Re: cramming 24 bits of address into 16 bits, was old and slow base and bounds John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-06-21 17:21 +0000
                Re: cramming 24 bits of address into 16 bits, was old and slow base and bounds EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-06-21 15:46 -0400
                Re: cramming 24 bits of address into 16 bits, was old and slow base and bounds Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-06-21 22:42 -0700
                Re: cramming 24 bits of address into 16 bits, was old and slow base and bounds Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-06-24 10:58 -0700
                Re: cramming 24 bits of address into 16 bits, was old and slow base and bounds John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-06-24 19:31 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-06-19 12:36 -0700
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-06-19 21:45 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-06-19 16:05 -0700
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-06-19 23:45 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> - 2025-06-20 14:51 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-06-20 15:55 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-06-19 20:25 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-06-19 12:12 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-06-19 10:32 -0400
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-06-19 14:54 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-06-19 20:36 -0400
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-06-20 01:10 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-06-20 01:15 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-06-21 12:04 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-06-21 20:32 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-06-22 01:26 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-06-22 01:36 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-06-22 08:57 +0000
                Re: linking and sortiing, old and slow base and bounds, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-06-22 17:52 +0000
                Re: linking and sortiing, old and slow base and bounds, mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-06-22 18:25 +0000
                Re: linking and sortiing, old and slow base and bounds, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-06-22 20:29 +0000
                Re: tape hacks, linking and sortiing John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-06-22 22:44 +0000
                Re: linking and sortiing, old and slow base and bounds, Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-06-23 06:07 +0000
                Re: linking and sortiing, old and slow base and bounds, quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> - 2025-06-23 09:56 +0000
                Re: linking and sortiing, old and slow base and bounds, quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> - 2025-06-23 10:01 +0000
                Re: linking and sortiing, old and slow base and bounds, Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-06-23 17:13 +0000
                Re: old and slow base and bounds, Why I've Dropped In John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-06-22 01:31 +0000
                Re: Why I've Dropped In mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-06-14 17:00 +0000
                Re: Why I've Dropped In John Savard <quadibloc@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-28 23:18 +0000
                Re: Why I've Dropped In BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-07-28 22:56 -0500
                Re: Why I've Dropped In MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-08-26 21:46 +0000
                VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-07-29 08:45 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-07-29 16:44 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-07-30 05:59 +0000
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-07-30 04:02 -0500
                Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-07-30 16:24 +0000
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-07-30 13:24 -0500
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-01 17:02 +0000
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-01 15:24 -0500
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-02 15:33 +0000
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-02 15:15 -0500
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-02 18:55 -0500
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-04 16:33 +0000
                Re: VAX MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-08-25 00:56 +0000
                Re: VAX MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-08-31 18:04 +0000
                What is more important MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-09-04 15:23 +0000
                Re: What is more important Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-09-04 10:25 -0700
                Re: What is more important MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-09-04 21:00 +0000
                Re: What is more important BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-04 16:54 -0500
                Re: What is more important anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-05 15:03 +0000
                Re: What is more important BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-05 14:26 -0500
                Re: What is more important BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-05 14:38 -0500
                Re: What is more important Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2025-09-05 21:56 -0400
                Re: What is more important Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-09-10 13:31 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-07-30 17:17 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-01 17:16 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-01 18:11 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-01 20:41 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-02 09:07 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-02 23:21 +0000
                Re: VAX Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-08-02 23:10 -0400
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-03 09:14 +0000
                Re: VAX Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-08-03 07:41 -0700
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-06 10:24 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 23:40 +0000
                Re: VAX John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-04 08:32 -0700
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-04 11:47 -0500
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-04 17:20 +0000
                Re: 32 vs 64 bits, was VAX John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-04 18:17 +0000
                Re: 32 vs 64 bits, was VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 22:17 +0300
                Re: 32 vs 64 bits, was VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 01:36 +0000
                Re: 32 vs 64 bits, was VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-04 20:00 +0000
                Re: IBM's 32 vs 64 bits, was VAX John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-04 21:04 +0000
                Re: IBM's 32 vs 64 bits, was VAX Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2025-08-07 07:32 -1000
                Re: VAX Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-08-04 15:40 -0400
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-06 16:34 +0000
                Re: VAX Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-08-31 16:43 -0400
                Re: VAX Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-31 22:26 +0000
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-01 06:07 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-01 06:57 +0000
                Debian on AMD64 (was: VAX) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-01 07:40 +0000
                Re: Debian on AMD64 Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-09-01 12:15 -0400
                Re: Debian on AMD64 BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-01 11:33 -0500
                Re: Debian on AMD64 anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-01 20:34 +0000
                Re: VAX Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2025-09-21 16:20 +0200
                Re: VAX Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-21 15:45 +0100
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-09-21 17:54 +0300
                Re: VAX Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-08-04 14:06 -0700
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-05 00:21 +0300
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-04 21:51 +0000
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-04 23:38 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 01:39 +0000
                Re: VAX "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2025-08-05 09:25 +0100
                Re: VAX Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-08-05 17:24 +0200
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-05 15:41 +0000
                System calls (was: VAX) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-13 07:32 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-13 15:03 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-13 16:10 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-13 18:15 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-13 19:40 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-13 19:25 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-13 21:23 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-14 07:58 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-14 13:28 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-14 15:14 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-14 15:25 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-14 15:32 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-14 15:44 +0000
                Re: System calls David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-08-14 19:15 +0200
                Re: System calls Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-14 17:43 +0000
                Re: System calls David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-08-15 17:49 +0200
                Re: System calls cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-14 21:44 +0000
                Re: System calls David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-08-15 17:49 +0200
                Re: System calls cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-15 18:33 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-13 18:51 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-13 20:28 +0000
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-13 19:35 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 00:49 +0000
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-06 13:48 +0000
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-04 23:24 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 01:41 +0000
                Re: VAX vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-08-05 05:56 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 01:34 +0000
                Re: VAX Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-08-01 20:06 -0700
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-02 03:37 +0000
                Re: VAX ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2025-08-02 04:14 +0000
                Re: VAX "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-01 21:35 -0700
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-02 08:07 +0000
                Re: VAX Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-08-02 01:48 -0700
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-04 23:45 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-02 23:08 +0000
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-03 16:51 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-04 00:04 +0000
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-03 21:07 -0500
                Re: VAX Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-08-03 20:39 -0700
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-04 04:50 +0000
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 12:35 +0300
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-04 11:59 -0500
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 12:19 +0300
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-04 12:09 +0000
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-04 14:51 +0000
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 18:28 +0300
                Re: VAX Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-08-04 09:53 -0700
                Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-04 16:58 +0000
                Re: VAX "Brian G. Lucas" <bagel99@gmail.com> - 2025-08-05 13:03 -0500
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 22:03 +0300
                Re: VAX James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-08-04 15:25 -0400
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 22:40 +0300
                Re: VAX "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-04 12:44 -0700
                Re: VAX Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-08-04 22:21 -0700
                Re: VAX Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-08-05 21:25 +0000
                Re: VAX Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-08-05 19:14 -0700
                Re: VAX Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-08-06 04:31 +0000
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-06 11:48 +0300
                Re: VAX James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-08-06 11:56 -0400
                Re: VAX Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-08-05 21:13 +0000
                Re: VAX James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-08-06 11:54 -0400
                Re: VAX Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-08-06 13:58 -0700
                Re: VAX Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-08-05 21:08 +0000
                Re: VAX Jakob Bohm <egenagwemdimtapsar@jbohm.dk> - 2025-08-17 20:18 +0200
                Re: VAX Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-08-17 22:18 -0700
                Re: VAX Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-08-18 08:02 +0100
                Re: VAX David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-08-18 11:34 +0200
                Re: VAX Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-08-18 21:57 -0700
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-04 15:11 +0000
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 19:00 +0300
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 19:04 +0300
                Re: VAX Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-08-04 22:49 +0200
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-05 00:14 +0300
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-05 01:43 +0300
                Re: VAX Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-08-05 17:31 +0200
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-05 19:49 +0300
                Re: VAX Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-08-05 22:17 +0200
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-06 00:21 +0300
                Re: VAX Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-08-06 16:19 +0200
                3-way long addition (was: VAX) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-06 20:43 +0300
                Re: 3-way long addition Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-08-07 15:15 +0200
                3-way long addition (was: VAX) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-19 05:47 +0000
                Re: 3-way long addition (was: VAX) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-19 07:09 +0000
                Re: 3-way long addition Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-08-19 12:11 +0200
                Re: 3-way long addition anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-19 17:43 +0000
                Re: 3-way long addition (was: VAX) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-19 17:20 +0300
                Re: 3-way long addition (was: VAX) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-19 17:24 +0300
                Re: 3-way long addition (was: VAX) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-19 23:03 +0300
                Re: 3-way long addition Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-08-20 10:50 +0200
                Re: 3-way long addition Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-20 14:16 +0300
                Intel ADX (was: 3-way long addition) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-20 14:08 +0000
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 18:25 +0300
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-04 12:56 -0500
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-04 14:22 +0000
                Re: VAX Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-08-04 16:46 +0200
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-04 15:05 +0000
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 18:07 +0300
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-04 15:32 +0000
                Re: VAX Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-08-04 15:09 -0400
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 22:31 +0300
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-04 20:29 +0000
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-05 00:08 +0300
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-04 21:23 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 06:46 +0000
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-05 03:14 -0500
                Re: VAX Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-08-05 11:52 -0700
                Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-06 05:37 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 06:20 +0000
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-04 12:12 -0500
                I32LP64 vs. ILP64 (was: VAX) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-06 11:28 +0000
                Re: I32LP64 vs. ILP64 antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-06 15:55 +0000
                Re: I32LP64 vs. ILP64 BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-06 12:47 -0500
                Re: I32LP64 vs. ILP64 BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-06 12:00 -0500
                Re: I32LP64 vs. ILP64 (was: VAX) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 23:34 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 05:38 +0000
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-06 11:05 +0000
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-06 12:12 -0500
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-06 18:22 +0000
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-06 10:32 +0000
                Re: 64 bits, was VAX John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-06 17:25 +0000
                Re: 64 bits, was VAX Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-08-06 12:11 -0700
                Re: individual 64 bits, was VAX John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-06 19:50 +0000
                Re: individual 64 bits, was VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-06 20:30 +0000
                Re: 64 bits, was VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 23:36 +0000
                Re: 64 bits, was VAX Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-08-07 15:44 +0200
                Re: 64 bits, was VAX Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-08-07 07:34 -0700
                Re: 64 bits, S/360 was VAX John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-07 20:54 +0000
                Re: 64 bits, was VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-08 03:51 +0000
                Bit addressing (was: 64 bits) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-07 14:57 +0000
                Re: Bit addressing drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-08-07 15:54 +0000
                Re: Bit addressing Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-08-07 13:01 -0700
                Re: Bit addressing (was: 64 bits) Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-08-07 13:34 -0700
                Re: VAX Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-08-06 23:12 +0000
                Re: VAX John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-06 23:15 +0000
                Re: VAX Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-08-06 23:32 +0000
                Re: word lengths in C, was VAX John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-07 02:56 +0000
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-07 11:21 +0000
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-07 13:34 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 23:38 +0000
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 12:42 +0300
                Re: VAX Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-08-04 03:32 -0700
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 05:37 +0000
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-04 13:42 +0000
                Re: VAX Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-08-04 16:50 +0100
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-04 23:52 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 05:35 +0000
                Re: VAX cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-05 01:31 +0000
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-05 13:46 +0000
                Re: VAX cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-05 17:21 +0000
                ILP32 code on 64-bit substrate (was: VAX) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-12 15:28 +0000

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