Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > comp.arch > #113135

Re: System calls (was: VAX)

From cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross)
Newsgroups comp.arch
Subject Re: System calls (was: VAX)
Date 2025-08-14 15:14 +0000
Organization PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID <107kuhg$8ks$1@reader1.panix.com> (permalink)
References <0c857b8347f07f3a0ca61c403d0a8711@www.novabbs.com> <2025Aug13.181010@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <107iorb$bnh$1@reader1.panix.com> <2025Aug13.232334@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>

Show all headers | View raw


In article <2025Aug13.232334@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>,
Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) writes:
>>In article <2025Aug13.181010@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>,
>>Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>>>For lseek(2):
>>>
>>>| Upon successful completion, lseek() returns the resulting offset
>>>| location as measured in bytes from the beginning of the file.
>>>
>>>Given that off_t is signed, lseek(2) can only return positive values.
>>
>>This is incorrect; or rather, it's accidentally correct now, but
>>was not previously.  The 1990 POSIX standard did not explicitly
>>forbid a file that was so large that the offset couldn't
>>overflow, hence why in 1990 POSIX you have to be careful about
>>error handling when using `lseek`.
>>
>>It is true that POSIX 2024 _does_ prohibit seeking so far that
>>the offset would become negative, however.
>
>I don't think that this is accidental.  In 1990 signed overlow had
>reliable behaviour on common 2s-complement hardware with the C
>compilers of the day.

This is simply not true.  If anything, there was more variety of
hardware supported by C90, and some of those systems were 1's
complement or sign/mag, not 2's complement.  Consequently,
signed integer overflow has _always_ had undefined behavior in
ANSI/ISO C.

However, conversion from signed to unsigned has always been
well-defined, and follows effectively 2's complement semantics.

Conversion from unsigned to signed is a bit more complex, and is
implementation defined, but not UB.  Given that the system call
interface is necessarily deeply intwined with the implementation
I see no reason why the semantics of signed overflow should be
an issue here.

>Nowadays the exotic hardware where this would
>not work that way has almost completely died out (and C is not used on
>the remaining exotic hardware),

If by "C is not used" you mean newer editions of the C standard
are not used on very old computers with strange representations
of signed integers, then maybe.

>but now compilers sometimes do funny
>things on integer overflow, so better don't go there or anywhere near
>it.

This isn't about signed overflow.  The issue here is conversion
of an unsigned value to signed; almost certainly, the kernel
performs the calculation of the actual file offset using
unsigned arithmetic, and relies on the (assembler, mind you)
system call stubs to map those to the appropriate userspace
type.

I think this is mostly irrelevant, as the system call stub,
almost by necessity, must be written in assembler in order to
have percise control over the use of specific registers and so
on.  From C's perspective, a program making a system call just
calls some function that's defined to return a signed integer;
the assembler code that swizzles the register that integer will
be extracted from sets things up accordingly.  In other words,
the conversion operation that the C standard mentions isn't at
play, since the code that does the "conversion" is in assembly.
Again from C's perspective the return value of the syscall stub
function is already signed with no need of conversion.

No, for `lseek`, the POSIX rationale explains the reasoning here
quite clearly: the 1990 standard permitted negative offsets, and
programs were expected to accommodate this by special handling
of `errno` before and after calls to `lseek` that returned
negative values.  This was deemed onerous and fragile, so they
modified the standard to prohibit calls that would result in
negative offsets.

>>But, POSIX 2024
>>(still!!) supports multiple definitions of `off_t` for multiple
>>environments, in which overflow is potentially unavoidable.
>
>POSIX also has the EOVERFLOW error for exactly that case.
>
>Bottom line: The off_t returned by lseek(2) is signed and always
>positive.

As I said earlier, post POSIX.1-1990, this is true.

>>>For mmap(2):
>>>
>>>| On success, mmap() returns a pointer to the mapped area.
>>>
>>>So it's up to the kernel which user-level addresses it returns.  E.g.,
>>>32-bit Linux originally only produced user-level addresses below 2GB.
>>>When memories grew larger, on some architectures (e.g., i386) Linux
>>>increased that to 3GB.
>>
>>The point is that the programmer shouldn't have to care.
>
>True, but completely misses the point.

I don't see why.  You were talking about the system call stubs,
which run in userspace, and are responsbile for setting up state
so that the kernel can perform some requested action on entry,
whether by trap, call gate, or special instruction, and then for
tearing down that state and handling errors on return from the
kernel.

For mmap, there is exactly one value that may be returned from
the its stub that indicates an error; any other value, by
definition, represents a valid mapping.  Whether such a mapping
falls in the first 2G, 3G, anything except the upper 256MiB, or
some hole in the middle is the part that's irrelevant, and
focusing on that misses the main point: all the stub has to do
is detect the error, using whatever convetion the kernel
specifies for communicating such things back to the program, and
ensure that in an error case, MAP_FAILED is returned from the
stub and `errno` is set appropriately.  Everything else is
superfluous.

>>>Sure, but system calls are first introduced in real kernels using the
>>>actual system call interface, and are limited by that interface.  And
>>>that interface is remarkably similar between the early days of Unix
>>>and recent Linux kernels for various architectures.
>>
>>Not precisely.  On x86_64, for example, some Unixes use a flag
>>bit to determine whether the system call failed, and return
>>(positive) errno values; Linux returns negative numbers to
>>indicate errors, and constrains those to values between -4095
>>and -1.
>>
>>Presumably that specific set of values is constrained by `mmap`:
>>assuming a minimum 4KiB page size, the last architecturally
>>valid address where a page _could_ be mapped is equivalent to
>>-4096 and the first is 0.  If they did not have that constraint,
>>they'd have to treat `mmap` specially in the system call path.
>
>I am pretty sure that in the old times, Linux-i386 indicated failure
>by returning a value with the MSB set, and the wrapper just checked
>whether the return value was negative.  And for mmap() that worked
>because user-mode addresses were all below 2GB.  Addresses furthere up
>where reserved for the kernel.

Define "Linux-i386" in this case.  For the kernel, I'm confident
that was NOT the case, and it is easy enough to research, since
old kernel versions are online.  Looking at e.g. 0.99.15, one
can see that they set the carry bit in the flags register to
indicate an error, along with returning a negative errno value:
https://kernel.googlesource.com/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/nico/archive/+/refs/tags/v0.99.15/kernel/sys_call.S

By 2.0, they'd stopped setting the carry bit, though they
continued to clear it on entry.

But remember, `mmap` returns a pointer, not an integer, relying
on libc to do the necessary translation between whatever the
kernel returns and what the program expects.  So if the behavior
you describe where anywhere, it would be in libc.  Given that
they have, and had, a mechanism for signaling an error
independent of C already, and necessarily the fixup of the
return value must happen in the syscall stub in whatever library
the system used, relying soley on negative values to detect
errors seems like a poor design decision ifor a C library.

So if what you're saying were true, such a check wuld have to
be in the userspace library that provides the syscall stubs; the
kernel really doesn't care.  I don't know what version libc
Torvalds started with, or if he did his own bespoke thing
initially or something, but looking at some commonly used C
libraries of a certain age, such as glibc 2.0 from 1997-ish, one
can see that they're explicitly testing the error status against
-4095 (as an unsigned value) in the stub. (e.g., in
sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux/i386/syscall.S).

But glibc-1.06.1 is a different story, and _does_ appear to
simply test whether the return value is negative and then jump
to an error handler if so.  So mmap may have worked incidentally
due to the restriction on where in the address space it would
place a mapping in very early kernel versions, as you described,
but that's a library issue, not a kernel issue: again, the
kernel doesn't care.

The old version of libc5 available on kernel.org similarly; it
looks like HJ Lu changed the error handling path to explicitly
compare against -4095 in October of 1996.

So, fixed in the most common libc's used with Linux on i386 for
nearly 30 years, well before the existence of x86_64.

>>>I wonder how the kernel is informed that it can now return more
>>>addresses from mmap().
>>
>>Assuming you mean the Linux kernel, when it loads an ELF
>>executable, the binary image itself is "branded" with an ABI
>>type that it can use to make that determination.
>
>I have checked that with binaries compiled in 2003 and 2000:
>
>-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 44660 Sep 26  2000 /usr/local/bin/gforth-0.5.0*
>-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 92352 Sep  7  2003 /usr/local/bin/gforth-0.6.2*
>
>[~:160080] file /usr/local/bin/gforth-0.5.0
>/usr/local/bin/gforth-0.5.0: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.2, stripped
>[~:160081] file /usr/local/bin/gforth-0.6.2
>/usr/local/bin/gforth-0.6.2: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.2, for
>GNU/Linux 2.0.0, stripped
>
>So there is actually a difference between these two.  However, if I
>just strace them as they are now, they both happily produce very high
>addresses with mmap, e.g.,
>
>mmap2(NULL, 8192, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0xf7f64000

I don't see any reason why it wouldn't.

>I don't know what the difference is between "for GNU/Linux 2.0.0" and
>not having that,

`file` is pulling that from a `PT_NOTE` segment defined in the
program header for that second file.  A better tool for picking
apart the details of those binaries is probably `objdump`.

I'm mildly curious what version of libc those are linked against
(e.g., as reported by `ldd`).

>but the addresses produced by mmap() seem unaffected.

I don't see why it would be.  Any common libc post 1997-ish
handles errors in a way that permits this to work correctly.  If
you tried glibc 1.0, it might be a different story, but the
Linux folks forked that in 1994 and modified it as "Linux libc"
and the 

>However, by calling the binaries with setarch -L, mmap() returns only
>addresses < 2GB in all calls I have looked at.  I guess if I had
>statically linked binaries, i.e., with old system call wrappers, I
>would have to use
>
>setarch -L <binary>
>
>to make it work properly with mmap().  Or maybe Linux is smart enough
>to do it by itself when it encounters a statically-linked old binary.

Unclear without looking at the kernel source code, but possibly.
`setarch -L` turns on the "legacy" virtual address space layout,
but I suspect that the number of binaries that _actually care_
is pretty small, indeed.

	- Dan C.

Back to comp.arch | Previous | NextPrevious in thread | Next in thread | Find similar


Thread

Re: Why I've Dropped In John Savard <quadibloc@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-28 23:18 +0000
  Re: Why I've Dropped In BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-07-28 22:56 -0500
    Re: Why I've Dropped In MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-08-26 21:46 +0000
  VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-07-29 08:45 +0000
    Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-07-29 16:44 +0000
      Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-07-30 05:59 +0000
        Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-07-30 04:02 -0500
          Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-07-30 16:24 +0000
            Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-07-30 13:24 -0500
          Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-01 17:02 +0000
            Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-01 15:24 -0500
              Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-02 15:33 +0000
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-02 15:15 -0500
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-02 18:55 -0500
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-04 16:33 +0000
                Re: VAX MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-08-25 00:56 +0000
                Re: VAX MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-08-31 18:04 +0000
                What is more important MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-09-04 15:23 +0000
                Re: What is more important Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-09-04 10:25 -0700
                Re: What is more important MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-09-04 21:00 +0000
                Re: What is more important BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-04 16:54 -0500
                Re: What is more important anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-05 15:03 +0000
                Re: What is more important BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-05 14:26 -0500
                Re: What is more important BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-05 14:38 -0500
                Re: What is more important Robert Finch <robfi680@gmail.com> - 2025-09-05 21:56 -0400
                Re: What is more important Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-09-10 13:31 +0000
        Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-07-30 17:17 +0000
          Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-01 17:16 +0000
            Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-01 18:11 +0000
              Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-01 20:41 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-02 09:07 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-02 23:21 +0000
                Re: VAX Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-08-02 23:10 -0400
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-03 09:14 +0000
                Re: VAX Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-08-03 07:41 -0700
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-06 10:24 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 23:40 +0000
                Re: VAX John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-04 08:32 -0700
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-04 11:47 -0500
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-04 17:20 +0000
                Re: 32 vs 64 bits, was VAX John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-04 18:17 +0000
                Re: 32 vs 64 bits, was VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 22:17 +0300
                Re: 32 vs 64 bits, was VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 01:36 +0000
                Re: 32 vs 64 bits, was VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-04 20:00 +0000
                Re: IBM's 32 vs 64 bits, was VAX John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-04 21:04 +0000
                Re: IBM's 32 vs 64 bits, was VAX Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2025-08-07 07:32 -1000
                Re: VAX Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-08-04 15:40 -0400
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-06 16:34 +0000
                Re: VAX Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-08-31 16:43 -0400
                Re: VAX Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-31 22:26 +0000
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-01 06:07 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-01 06:57 +0000
                Debian on AMD64 (was: VAX) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-01 07:40 +0000
                Re: Debian on AMD64 Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-09-01 12:15 -0400
                Re: Debian on AMD64 BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-09-01 11:33 -0500
                Re: Debian on AMD64 anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-09-01 20:34 +0000
                Re: VAX Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2025-09-21 16:20 +0200
                Re: VAX Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-21 15:45 +0100
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-09-21 17:54 +0300
                Re: VAX Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-08-04 14:06 -0700
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-05 00:21 +0300
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-04 21:51 +0000
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-04 23:38 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 01:39 +0000
                Re: VAX "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2025-08-05 09:25 +0100
                Re: VAX Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-08-05 17:24 +0200
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-05 15:41 +0000
                System calls (was: VAX) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-13 07:32 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-13 15:03 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-13 16:10 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-13 18:15 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-13 19:40 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-13 19:25 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-13 21:23 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-14 07:58 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-14 13:28 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-14 15:14 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-14 15:25 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-14 15:32 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-14 15:44 +0000
                Re: System calls David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-08-14 19:15 +0200
                Re: System calls Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-14 17:43 +0000
                Re: System calls David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-08-15 17:49 +0200
                Re: System calls cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-14 21:44 +0000
                Re: System calls David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-08-15 17:49 +0200
                Re: System calls cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-15 18:33 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-13 18:51 +0000
                Re: System calls (was: VAX) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-13 20:28 +0000
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-13 19:35 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 00:49 +0000
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-06 13:48 +0000
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-04 23:24 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 01:41 +0000
                Re: VAX vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-08-05 05:56 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 01:34 +0000
              Re: VAX Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-08-01 20:06 -0700
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-02 03:37 +0000
                Re: VAX ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2025-08-02 04:14 +0000
                Re: VAX "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-01 21:35 -0700
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-02 08:07 +0000
                Re: VAX Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-08-02 01:48 -0700
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-04 23:45 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-02 23:08 +0000
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-03 16:51 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-04 00:04 +0000
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-03 21:07 -0500
                Re: VAX Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-08-03 20:39 -0700
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-04 04:50 +0000
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 12:35 +0300
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-04 11:59 -0500
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 12:19 +0300
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-04 12:09 +0000
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-04 14:51 +0000
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 18:28 +0300
                Re: VAX Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-08-04 09:53 -0700
                Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-04 16:58 +0000
                Re: VAX "Brian G. Lucas" <bagel99@gmail.com> - 2025-08-05 13:03 -0500
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 22:03 +0300
                Re: VAX James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-08-04 15:25 -0400
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 22:40 +0300
                Re: VAX "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-04 12:44 -0700
                Re: VAX Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-08-04 22:21 -0700
                Re: VAX Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-08-05 21:25 +0000
                Re: VAX Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-08-05 19:14 -0700
                Re: VAX Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-08-06 04:31 +0000
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-06 11:48 +0300
                Re: VAX James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-08-06 11:56 -0400
                Re: VAX Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-08-05 21:13 +0000
                Re: VAX James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-08-06 11:54 -0400
                Re: VAX Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-08-06 13:58 -0700
                Re: VAX Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-08-05 21:08 +0000
                Re: VAX Jakob Bohm <egenagwemdimtapsar@jbohm.dk> - 2025-08-17 20:18 +0200
                Re: VAX Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-08-17 22:18 -0700
                Re: VAX Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-08-18 08:02 +0100
                Re: VAX David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-08-18 11:34 +0200
                Re: VAX Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-08-18 21:57 -0700
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-04 15:11 +0000
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 19:00 +0300
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 19:04 +0300
                Re: VAX Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-08-04 22:49 +0200
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-05 00:14 +0300
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-05 01:43 +0300
                Re: VAX Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-08-05 17:31 +0200
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-05 19:49 +0300
                Re: VAX Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-08-05 22:17 +0200
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-06 00:21 +0300
                Re: VAX Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-08-06 16:19 +0200
                3-way long addition (was: VAX) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-06 20:43 +0300
                Re: 3-way long addition Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-08-07 15:15 +0200
                3-way long addition (was: VAX) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-19 05:47 +0000
                Re: 3-way long addition (was: VAX) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-19 07:09 +0000
                Re: 3-way long addition Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-08-19 12:11 +0200
                Re: 3-way long addition anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-19 17:43 +0000
                Re: 3-way long addition (was: VAX) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-19 17:20 +0300
                Re: 3-way long addition (was: VAX) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-19 17:24 +0300
                Re: 3-way long addition (was: VAX) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-19 23:03 +0300
                Re: 3-way long addition Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-08-20 10:50 +0200
                Re: 3-way long addition Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-20 14:16 +0300
                Intel ADX (was: 3-way long addition) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-20 14:08 +0000
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 18:25 +0300
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-04 12:56 -0500
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-04 14:22 +0000
                Re: VAX Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-08-04 16:46 +0200
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-04 15:05 +0000
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 18:07 +0300
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-04 15:32 +0000
                Re: VAX Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-08-04 15:09 -0400
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 22:31 +0300
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-04 20:29 +0000
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-05 00:08 +0300
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-04 21:23 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 06:46 +0000
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-05 03:14 -0500
                Re: VAX Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-08-05 11:52 -0700
                Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-06 05:37 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 06:20 +0000
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-04 12:12 -0500
                I32LP64 vs. ILP64 (was: VAX) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-06 11:28 +0000
                Re: I32LP64 vs. ILP64 antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-06 15:55 +0000
                Re: I32LP64 vs. ILP64 BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-06 12:47 -0500
                Re: I32LP64 vs. ILP64 BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-06 12:00 -0500
                Re: I32LP64 vs. ILP64 (was: VAX) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 23:34 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 05:38 +0000
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-06 11:05 +0000
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-06 12:12 -0500
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-06 18:22 +0000
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-06 10:32 +0000
                Re: 64 bits, was VAX John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-06 17:25 +0000
                Re: 64 bits, was VAX Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-08-06 12:11 -0700
                Re: individual 64 bits, was VAX John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-06 19:50 +0000
                Re: individual 64 bits, was VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-06 20:30 +0000
                Re: 64 bits, was VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 23:36 +0000
                Re: 64 bits, was VAX Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-08-07 15:44 +0200
                Re: 64 bits, was VAX Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-08-07 07:34 -0700
                Re: 64 bits, S/360 was VAX John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-07 20:54 +0000
                Re: 64 bits, was VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-08 03:51 +0000
                Bit addressing (was: 64 bits) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-07 14:57 +0000
                Re: Bit addressing drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-08-07 15:54 +0000
                Re: Bit addressing Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-08-07 13:01 -0700
                Re: Bit addressing (was: 64 bits) Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-08-07 13:34 -0700
                Re: VAX Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-08-06 23:12 +0000
                Re: VAX John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-06 23:15 +0000
                Re: VAX Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-08-06 23:32 +0000
                Re: word lengths in C, was VAX John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-07 02:56 +0000
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-07 11:21 +0000
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-07 13:34 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 23:38 +0000
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 12:42 +0300
                Re: VAX Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-08-04 03:32 -0700
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 05:37 +0000
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-04 13:42 +0000
                Re: VAX Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-08-04 16:50 +0100
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-04 23:52 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 05:35 +0000
                Re: VAX cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-05 01:31 +0000
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-05 13:46 +0000
                Re: VAX cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-05 17:21 +0000
                ILP32 code on 64-bit substrate (was: VAX) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-12 15:28 +0000
                Re: ILP32 code on 64-bit substrate (was: VAX) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-12 16:08 +0000
                Re: ILP32 code on 64-bit substrate BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-12 11:53 -0500
                Re: ILP32 code on 64-bit substrate aph@littlepinkcloud.invalid - 2025-08-12 17:57 +0000
                Re: ILP32 code on 64-bit substrate John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-12 19:09 +0000
                Re: ILP32 code on 64-bit substrate OrangeFish <OrangeFish@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-15 11:42 -0400
                Re: ILP32 code on 64-bit substrate anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-13 06:11 +0000
                Re: ILP32 code on 64-bit substrate scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-13 14:24 +0000
                Re: ILP32 code on 64-bit substrate anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-13 18:13 +0000
              Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-02 09:28 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-02 15:29 +0000
                Re: VAX Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-08-02 15:33 -0700
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-02 23:17 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-02 23:20 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-04 17:23 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-04 18:16 +0000
                Re: VAX EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-08-04 14:39 -0400
                Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-04 19:59 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-04 18:59 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 22:12 +0300
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-04 20:13 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-04 23:54 +0300
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-08-04 14:41 -0700
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-04 17:18 -0500
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 01:53 +0000
                Re: VAX "Brian G. Lucas" <bagel99@gmail.com> - 2025-08-05 13:04 -0500
                O.T. Where is Mitch? Was: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-07 23:48 +0300
                Re: O.T. Where is Mitch? Was: VAX "Brian G. Lucas" <bagel99@gmail.com> - 2025-08-07 16:01 -0500
                Re: O.T. Where is Mitch? Was: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-08 01:41 -0500
                Re: O.T. Where is Mitch? Was: VAX Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-08-08 11:58 +0200
                Re: O.T. Where is Mitch? Was: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-08 13:20 +0300
                Re: O.T. Where is Mitch? Was: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-08 14:22 +0000
                Re: O.T. Where is Mitch? Was: VAX Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2025-08-08 18:34 +0300
                Re: O.T. Where is Mitch? Was: VAX George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-08-08 19:07 -0400
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-05 21:01 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 00:59 +0000
                Re: VAX Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-08-05 20:15 -0700
                Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-06 05:50 +0000
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 07:28 +0000
                Re: VAX cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-06 10:48 +0000
                Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-06 16:35 +0000
                Re: VAX cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-08 01:57 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-06 08:28 -0700
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 23:45 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-07 01:49 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-07 08:28 -0700
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-13 09:37 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-13 08:22 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-13 14:26 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-13 17:50 +0000
                Re: VAX drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-08-14 17:12 +0000
                Re: VAX EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-08-14 15:22 -0400
                Re: VAX Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-08-14 12:59 -0700
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-13 14:44 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-13 17:46 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2025-08-13 18:26 +0000
                Re: VAX Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-08-13 12:09 -0700
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 01:47 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-05 13:58 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-06 16:47 +0000
                Re: VAX Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-08-06 12:12 -0700
                Re: VAX Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-07 01:36 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-07 05:29 +0000
                Re: VAX Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-08-07 07:26 -0700
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-08 03:57 +0000
                Re: VAX Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-08-08 11:43 +0300
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-06 14:00 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-08-06 10:20 -0700
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Robert Swindells <rjs@fdy2.co.uk> - 2025-08-06 22:30 +0000
                Re: VAX EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-08-06 20:21 -0400
                Re: VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-07 02:22 +0000
                Re: VAX John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-07 08:38 -0700
                Re: VAX Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@tmsw.no> - 2025-08-07 17:52 +0200
                Re: VAX George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-08-07 21:53 -0400
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-08 06:16 +0000
                Re: VAX George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-08-08 19:48 -0400
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-07 10:27 +0000
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-07 11:06 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-08-04 12:27 -0700
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 01:46 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-06 16:21 +0000
                Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 01:43 +0000
            Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-01 23:41 +0000
              Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-03 16:42 +0000
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-05 00:55 +0000
                Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-05 05:44 +0000
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-12 15:02 +0000
                Re: VAX EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-08-13 14:40 -0400
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-15 03:20 +0000
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-15 15:10 +0000
                Re: VAX pages John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-15 16:53 +0000
                Re: VAX pages BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-15 13:19 -0500
                Re: VAX pages Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-08-15 12:03 -0700
                Re: VAX pages scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-15 19:19 +0000
                Re: VAX and other pages John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-15 20:40 +0000
                Re: VAX and other pages anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-15 21:22 +0000
                Re: VAX and other pages John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-16 01:22 +0000
                Re: VAX and other pages anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-16 05:09 +0000
                Re: VAX and other pages Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-08-16 10:00 -0700
                Re: VAX and other pages John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-16 17:06 +0000
                Re: VAX and other pages antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-20 01:49 +0000
                Re: VAX and other pages John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-20 02:49 +0000
                Re: VAX pages BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-16 03:17 -0500
        Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-07-31 04:26 +0000
          Re: VAX John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-07-31 16:05 +0000
            Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-07-31 19:01 +0000
              Re: VAX John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-07-31 19:57 +0000
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-07-31 21:24 +0000
            Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-01 02:18 +0000
              Re: VAX encoding John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-01 15:30 +0000
                Re: VAX encoding antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-01 18:08 +0000
                Re: VAX encoding scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-01 18:33 +0000
                Re: VAX encoding antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-01 21:24 +0000
                Re: VAX encoding Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-01 19:13 +0000
                Re: VAX encoding MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-08-28 15:10 +0000
                Re: VAX encoding EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-08-29 10:34 -0400
              Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-02 09:02 +0000
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-05 01:43 +0000
                Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-05 05:48 +0000
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-05 14:13 +0000
                Re: VAX George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-08-05 17:41 -0400
                Re: VAX EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-08-06 10:23 -0400
                Re: VAX George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-08-08 21:43 -0400
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-05 13:56 +0000
                Re: VAX cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-05 16:44 +0000
                Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-06 05:53 +0000
                Re: VAX cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-06 11:10 +0000
                Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-06 20:06 +0000
                Re: VAX EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-08-06 17:00 -0400
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-06 21:14 +0000
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-07 11:59 +0000
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-07 15:03 +0000
                Re: VAX EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-08-06 17:57 -0400
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-07 11:29 +0000
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-07 11:38 +0000
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-16 15:26 -0500
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-17 06:16 +0000
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-17 11:29 -0500
                Re: VAX EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-08-17 10:00 -0400
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-17 15:21 +0000
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-17 19:10 +0000
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-17 15:08 -0500
                Re: VAX EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-08-18 11:03 -0400
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-18 15:35 +0000
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-18 17:19 +0000
                Re: VAX EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-08-20 14:36 -0400
                Re: VAX EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-08-20 16:41 -0400
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-21 16:21 +0000
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-17 12:53 -0500
                Re: VAX Robert Swindells <rjs@fdy2.co.uk> - 2025-08-06 23:43 +0000
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-07 10:47 +0000
                Re: VAX EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-08-08 10:08 -0400
                Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-09 08:07 +0000
                Re: VAX EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-08-09 10:03 -0400
                Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-09 20:54 +0000
                Re: VAX Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-08-09 14:57 -0700
                Re: VAX EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-08-13 14:18 -0400
                Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-13 20:23 +0000
                Re: VAX EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-08-17 13:35 -0400
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-17 18:56 -0500
                Re: VAX EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-08-20 19:17 -0400
                Re: VAX BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-08-20 23:50 -0500
                Re: VAX EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-08-06 20:41 -0400
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-07 11:16 +0000
                Re: VAX cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-09 09:04 +0000
                Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-09 10:00 +0000
                Re: VAX cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-10 12:06 +0000
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-10 15:18 +0000
                Re: byte me, PDP-10 edition, was VAX John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-10 19:55 +0000
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-11 08:17 +0000
                Re: VAX scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-08-11 14:51 +0000
                Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-11 17:27 +0000
                Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-10 21:01 +0000
                Re: VAX cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-13 11:25 +0000
                Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-15 05:07 +0000
                Re: VAX cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-08-15 12:57 +0000
                Re: VAX Robert Swindells <rjs@fdy2.co.uk> - 2025-08-15 13:36 +0000
                Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-18 05:48 +0000
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-05 20:34 +0000
                Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-12 15:59 +0000
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-20 03:47 +0000
                Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-21 19:26 +0000
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-22 16:36 +0000
                Re: VAX Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-22 17:21 +0000
                Re: VAX John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-22 16:45 +0000
                Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-23 16:38 +0000
                Re: 360/91, was VAX John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-08-23 19:36 +0000
          Re: VAX anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-01 17:25 +0000
          Re: VAX MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-08-27 00:56 +0000
            Re: VAX antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-08-28 07:49 +0000
        Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) MitchAlsup <user5857@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-08-27 00:35 +0000
          Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-08-27 05:12 +0000
            Re: VAX EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-08-27 10:56 -0400
              Re: VAX EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-08-28 13:39 -0400
          Re: VAX (was: Why I've Dropped In) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-08-27 17:19 +0000

csiph-web