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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #620551 > unrolled thread
| Started by | patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2023-09-20 04:30 -0700 |
| Last post | 2023-09-21 22:43 -0400 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 32 — 5 participants |
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Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-09-20 04:30 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2023-09-20 06:16 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-09-20 16:29 +0200
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-09-20 10:28 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-09-20 14:23 -0400
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-09-20 12:12 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-09-20 19:12 -0400
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-09-20 16:33 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-09-21 11:45 -0400
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-09-21 10:12 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-09-21 17:29 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-09-21 18:00 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-09-21 21:03 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-09-22 00:48 -0400
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-09-21 22:00 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-09-22 10:19 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-09-22 17:55 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-09-22 10:17 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-09-22 14:13 -0400
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-09-22 12:16 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-09-22 12:22 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-09-22 17:57 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-09-22 18:35 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-09-22 19:11 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-09-22 23:33 -0400
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-09-23 10:30 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-09-24 07:00 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-09-24 11:11 -0400
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-09-24 08:14 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-09-24 11:30 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-09-24 10:40 -0700
Re: Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-09-21 22:43 -0400
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| From | patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-09-20 04:30 -0700 |
| Subject | Hey Athel, is this chap one of your students? |
| Message-ID | <ec8a23e9-5310-4fbd-bb27-fa9dbf626ac7n@googlegroups.com> |
If so, where do you think you went wrong? https://evolutionnews.org/2023/09/new-article-in-science-boosts-plausibility-of-a-primordial-pair/
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| From | Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-09-20 06:16 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <4982b468-a53c-46a5-9c01-3ab1845c5ea6n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #620551 |
On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 8:30:15 AM UTC-3, patdolan wrote: > If so, where do you think you went wrong? > > https://evolutionnews.org/2023/09/new-article-in-science-boosts-plausibility-of-a-primordial-pair/ Many say evolution. I say mutation, and only take one, male or female. Since there, the lineage was spread with blending over descendants. But what caused this mutation on a single human? Maybe a lightning?
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| From | Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-09-20 16:29 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <kn0dufFtm32U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #620551 |
On 2023-09-20 11:30:06 +0000, patdolan said: > If so, where do you think you went wrong? > > https://evolutionnews.org/2023/09/new-article-in-science-boosts-plausibility-of-a-primordial-pair/ > Maybe your grasp of arithmetic is as weak as your grasp of physics and biology, but 1280 is bigger than 2. -- Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly in England until 1987.
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| From | patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-09-20 10:28 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <1be1174f-9e11-4da9-ae24-27616f092c23n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #620560 |
On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 7:29:40 AM UTC-7, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote: > On 2023-09-20 11:30:06 +0000, patdolan said: > > > If so, where do you think you went wrong? > > > > https://evolutionnews.org/2023/09/new-article-in-science-boosts-plausibility-of-a-primordial-pair/ > > > Maybe your grasp of arithmetic is as weak as your grasp of physics and > biology, but 1280 is bigger than 2. > > > -- > Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly > in England until 1987. Athel, I congratulate your very close reading of the article. Yes, I know the the difference between 1280 and 2. Even their square roots multiplied by i (that is for you Legion). It's the ethos of the article, more than its literality that I rejoice over. There were two Biblical bottlenecks. Not one. I'm surprised this article make no reference to the time when humanity shrank to but 8 individuals: Noah, his wife, three sons and daughters-in-law. Do you know this British Isles fellow? At least by reputation?
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| From | Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-09-20 14:23 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <uefdat$32eee$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #620567 |
On 9/20/2023 1:28 PM, patdolan wrote: > On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 7:29:40 AM UTC-7, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote: >> On 2023-09-20 11:30:06 +0000, patdolan said: >> >>> If so, where do you think you went wrong? >>> >>> https://evolutionnews.org/2023/09/new-article-in-science-boosts-plausibility-of-a-primordial-pair/ >>> >> Maybe your grasp of arithmetic is as weak as your grasp of physics and >> biology, but 1280 is bigger than 2. >> >> >> -- >> Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly >> in England until 1987. > Athel, I congratulate your very close reading of the article. Yes, I know the the difference between 1280 and 2. So you admit this isn't any sort of evidence of a bottleneck of 2, nor that of Noah. 1280 people is 1280 people, not 2. > There were two Biblical bottlenecks. Not one. I'm surprised this article make no reference to the time when humanity shrank to but 8 individuals: Noah, his wife, three sons and daughters-in-law. The effective size of that bottleneck wouldn't be 8 since Noah's sons are obviously related to Noah and his wife, and each other. Also were the daughters-in-law related to Noah or his wife in any way? The problem with close relative marriage is that deleterious recessive genes can be inherited from both parents, resulting in any of many nasty birth defects or inherited conditions. See the Hapsburg line of royalty of Europe for a few examples, King Charles II of Spain in particular. Also purebred (inbred) dog breeds with problems common to the breed, zoo animals etc.
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| From | patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-09-20 12:12 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ba392cca-9597-4a6f-9501-df385991cdbfn@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #620571 |
On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 11:23:28 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote: > On 9/20/2023 1:28 PM, patdolan wrote: > > On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 7:29:40 AM UTC-7, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote: > >> On 2023-09-20 11:30:06 +0000, patdolan said: > >> > >>> If so, where do you think you went wrong? > >>> > >>> https://evolutionnews.org/2023/09/new-article-in-science-boosts-plausibility-of-a-primordial-pair/ > >>> > >> Maybe your grasp of arithmetic is as weak as your grasp of physics and > >> biology, but 1280 is bigger than 2. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Athel -- French and British, living in Marseilles for 36 years; mainly > >> in England until 1987. > > Athel, I congratulate your very close reading of the article. Yes, I know the the difference between 1280 and 2. > So you admit this isn't any sort of evidence of a bottleneck of 2, nor > that of Noah. 1280 people is 1280 people, not 2. > > There were two Biblical bottlenecks. Not one. I'm surprised this article make no reference to the time when humanity shrank to but 8 individuals: Noah, his wife, three sons and daughters-in-law. > The effective size of that bottleneck wouldn't be 8 since Noah's sons > are obviously related to Noah and his wife, and each other. Also were > the daughters-in-law related to Noah or his wife in any way? > > The problem with close relative marriage is that deleterious recessive > genes can be inherited from both parents, resulting in any of many nasty > birth defects or inherited conditions. See the Hapsburg line of royalty > of Europe for a few examples, King Charles II of Spain in particular. > Also purebred (inbred) dog breeds with problems common to the breed, zoo > animals etc. Volney, Each Noachiac child possesses single nukleotide polymorphisms entirely independent of Mr. and Mrs. Noah. These SNPs are the stuff of evolution.
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| From | Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-09-20 19:12 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <uefu8d$35hhm$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #620581 |
On 9/20/2023 3:12 PM, patdolan wrote: > On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 11:23:28 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote: >> The effective size of that bottleneck wouldn't be 8 since Noah's sons >> are obviously related to Noah and his wife, and each other. Also were >> the daughters-in-law related to Noah or his wife in any way? >> >> The problem with close relative marriage is that deleterious recessive >> genes can be inherited from both parents, resulting in any of many nasty >> birth defects or inherited conditions. See the Hapsburg line of royalty >> of Europe for a few examples, King Charles II of Spain in particular. >> Also purebred (inbred) dog breeds with problems common to the breed, zoo >> animals etc. > Volney, > > Each Noachiac child possesses single nukleotide polymorphisms entirely independent of Mr. and Mrs. Noah. These SNPs are the stuff of evolution. You mean there was lots of that biblical "knowing" and "begetting" hanky panky going on? Well that would still involve Mrs. Noah at minimum. And after the flood there would still be that severe bottleneck and those bad genes popping up for generations.
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| From | patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-09-20 16:33 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <150aeb0e-c166-4403-89e7-eaa8e91f734en@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #620589 |
On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 4:12:16 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: > On 9/20/2023 3:12 PM, patdolan wrote: > > On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 11:23:28 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote: > > >> The effective size of that bottleneck wouldn't be 8 since Noah's sons > >> are obviously related to Noah and his wife, and each other. Also were > >> the daughters-in-law related to Noah or his wife in any way? > >> > >> The problem with close relative marriage is that deleterious recessive > >> genes can be inherited from both parents, resulting in any of many nasty > >> birth defects or inherited conditions. See the Hapsburg line of royalty > >> of Europe for a few examples, King Charles II of Spain in particular. > >> Also purebred (inbred) dog breeds with problems common to the breed, zoo > >> animals etc. > > Volney, > > > > Each Noachiac child possesses single nukleotide polymorphisms entirely independent of Mr. and Mrs. Noah. These SNPs are the stuff of evolution. > You mean there was lots of that biblical "knowing" and "begetting" hanky > panky going on? Well that would still involve Mrs. Noah at minimum. And > after the flood there would still be that severe bottleneck and those > bad genes popping up for generations. I agree Volney. The Flood gene pool bottleneck ended the 800 year median life span for humans. Trees were not on the Arc because they didn't need to be. Plenty of cones and seeds survived the Flood just floating it out. Interestingly, trees maintained their antediluvian life spans. The giant Red Woods live a thousand years or more. Just like they did before the Flood.
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| From | Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-09-21 11:45 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <uehoec$3j8bp$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #620590 |
On 9/20/2023 7:33 PM, patdolan wrote: > On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 4:12:16 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: >> On 9/20/2023 3:12 PM, patdolan wrote: >>> Each Noachiac child possesses single nukleotide polymorphisms entirely independent of Mr. and Mrs. Noah. These SNPs are the stuff of evolution. Word Salad. >> You mean there was lots of that biblical "knowing" and "begetting" hanky >> panky going on? Well that would still involve Mrs. Noah at minimum. And >> after the flood there would still be that severe bottleneck and those >> bad genes popping up for generations. > I agree Volney. The Flood gene pool bottleneck ended the 800 year median life span for humans. There's no evidence humans ever had a lifespan of 800 years, much less a median 800 year lifespan. I don't believe any animal has a recorded lifespan of that long, ever. Additionally, a bottleneck of 5 individuals would kill off the species. Even the Hapsburgs weren't that bad.
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| From | patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-09-21 10:12 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <9f665585-ed15-4d1d-bdd4-ec7fad35bc52n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #620617 |
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 8:45:20 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote: > On 9/20/2023 7:33 PM, patdolan wrote: > > On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 4:12:16 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: > >> On 9/20/2023 3:12 PM, patdolan wrote: > > >>> Each Noachiac child possesses single nukleotide polymorphisms entirely independent of Mr. and Mrs. Noah. These SNPs are the stuff of evolution. > Word Salad. > >> You mean there was lots of that biblical "knowing" and "begetting" hanky > >> panky going on? Well that would still involve Mrs. Noah at minimum. And > >> after the flood there would still be that severe bottleneck and those > >> bad genes popping up for generations. > > > I agree Volney. The Flood gene pool bottleneck ended the 800 year median life span for humans. > There's no evidence humans ever had a lifespan of 800 years, much less a > median 800 year lifespan. I don't believe any animal has a recorded > lifespan of that long, That's because all animals died in the Flood too. "For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life under heaven. Everything that is on the earth shall die." Giant Sequoias neither draw breath nor are made of flesh. Hence, they still have their antediluvian lifespans. Additionally, a bottleneck of 5 individuals > would kill off the species. Even the Hapsburgs weren't that bad.
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| From | Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-09-21 17:29 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <44835673-b773-4374-972c-f680f16ecfd6n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #620619 |
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 10:12:08 AM UTC-7, patdolan wrote: > On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 8:45:20 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote: > > On 9/20/2023 7:33 PM, patdolan wrote: > > > On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 4:12:16 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: > > >> On 9/20/2023 3:12 PM, patdolan wrote: > > > > >>> Each Noachiac child possesses single nukleotide polymorphisms entirely independent of Mr. and Mrs. Noah. These SNPs are the stuff of evolution. > > Word Salad. > > >> You mean there was lots of that biblical "knowing" and "begetting" hanky > > >> panky going on? Well that would still involve Mrs. Noah at minimum. And > > >> after the flood there would still be that severe bottleneck and those > > >> bad genes popping up for generations. > > > > > I agree Volney. The Flood gene pool bottleneck ended the 800 year median life span for humans. > > There's no evidence humans ever had a lifespan of 800 years, much less a > > median 800 year lifespan. I don't believe any animal has a recorded > > lifespan of that long, > That's because all animals died in the Flood too. > > "For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life under heaven. Everything that is on the earth shall die." You actually believe, word for word, that the "story" of Noah in the bible is 100% accurate? Based upon exactly what evidence? The bible was written hundreds of years after the death of a character known as Jesus of Nazareth who may or may not have really existed, millennia after the "story" supposedly occurred. Dolan, I can make you a great deal on a bridge in Brooklyn... if you act fast, before someone else snaps it up!
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| From | patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-09-21 18:00 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <02c2a6c6-0b14-4ba8-acbf-f7b295d8537fn@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #620640 |
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 5:29:41 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote: > On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 10:12:08 AM UTC-7, patdolan wrote: > > On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 8:45:20 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote: > > > On 9/20/2023 7:33 PM, patdolan wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, September 20, 2023 at 4:12:16 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: > > > >> On 9/20/2023 3:12 PM, patdolan wrote: > > > > > > >>> Each Noachiac child possesses single nukleotide polymorphisms entirely independent of Mr. and Mrs. Noah. These SNPs are the stuff of evolution. > > > Word Salad. > > > >> You mean there was lots of that biblical "knowing" and "begetting" hanky > > > >> panky going on? Well that would still involve Mrs. Noah at minimum. And > > > >> after the flood there would still be that severe bottleneck and those > > > >> bad genes popping up for generations. > > > > > > > I agree Volney. The Flood gene pool bottleneck ended the 800 year median life span for humans. > > > There's no evidence humans ever had a lifespan of 800 years, much less a > > > median 800 year lifespan. I don't believe any animal has a recorded > > > lifespan of that long, > > That's because all animals died in the Flood too. > > > > "For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life under heaven. Everything that is on the earth shall die." > You actually believe, word for word, that the "story" of Noah in the bible is 100% accurate? Based upon exactly what evidence? The bible was written hundreds of years after the death of a character known as Jesus of Nazareth who may or may not have really existed, millennia after the "story" supposedly occurred. > > Dolan, I can make you a great deal on a bridge in Brooklyn... if you act fast, before someone else snaps it up! Muttonchops you damned fool. You think Paul wrote hundreds of years after Christ? As for the Flood and the Old Testament, keep your eye out for the "For Muttonchops' Eyes Only" series of posts. Coming soon.
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| From | Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-09-21 21:03 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <29fd1905-908d-4d02-9929-fe04d2d8d208n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #620643 |
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 6:00:32 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote: > On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 5:29:41 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote: > > On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 10:12:08 AM UTC-7, patdolan wrote: > > > "For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life under heaven. Everything that is on the earth shall die." > > You actually believe, word for word, that the "story" of Noah in the bible is 100% accurate? Based upon exactly what evidence? The bible was written hundreds of years after the death of a character known as Jesus of Nazareth who may or may not have really existed, millennia after the "story" supposedly occurred. > > > > Dolan, I can make you a great deal on a bridge in Brooklyn... if you act fast, before someone else snaps it up! > Muttonchops you damned fool. You think Paul wrote hundreds of years after Christ? > > As for the Flood and the Old Testament, keep your eye out for the "For Muttonchops' Eyes Only" series of posts. Coming soon. Saul/Paul was not a follower of Jesus and did not know him before his crucifixion. The narrative of the Book of Acts suggests Paul's conversion occurred 4–7 years after the crucifixion of Jesus. There is nothing worse than a convert, since this usually happens after come-to-jesus interaction with drugs... I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction. As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that!
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| From | Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-09-22 00:48 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <uej6a6$3ulom$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #620651 |
On 9/22/2023 12:03 AM, Paul Alsing wrote: > I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction. > > As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that! Several cultures have flood legends. One scientific theory is that the Black Sea was an isolated body of water like the Caspian Sea is now. Its level was below sea level, and people settled along its shores. At some point in prehistory, sea levels rose and the Mediterranean Sea overflowed what are now Bosporus/Dardanelles Straits and the Black Sea rose up to sea level, flooding those along its shores, and the Black Sea is no longer isolated from the world's oceans. The version now in the Bible morphed into a worldwide flood as a punishment from God.
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| From | Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-09-21 22:00 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7688f781-6b43-4af9-baaa-39dc85d2c38dn@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #620655 |
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 9:48:10 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: > On 9/22/2023 12:03 AM, Paul Alsing wrote: > > > I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction. > > > > As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that! > Several cultures have flood legends. One scientific theory is that the > Black Sea was an isolated body of water like the Caspian Sea is now. Its > level was below sea level, and people settled along its shores. At some > point in prehistory, sea levels rose and the Mediterranean Sea > overflowed what are now Bosporus/Dardanelles Straits and the Black Sea > rose up to sea level, flooding those along its shores, and the Black Sea > is no longer isolated from the world's oceans. The version now in the > Bible morphed into a worldwide flood as a punishment from God. Sounds like a logical scenario. Having the entire world flood to the extent that *all* animals were destroyed except for those on the ark is pretty hard to swallow... or to defend. I suppose Noah had 2 sharks and 2 whales on his boat? Shrimp? Lobsters? A $hit-ton of other sea creatures? It seems like a lot of *details* were exaggerated in the bible...
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| From | patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-09-22 10:19 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <d3febc2d-7f51-49ac-b05d-5f18000c3112n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #620657 |
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 10:00:50 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote: > On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 9:48:10 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: > > On 9/22/2023 12:03 AM, Paul Alsing wrote: > > > > > I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction. > > > > > > As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that! > > > Several cultures have flood legends. One scientific theory is that the > > Black Sea was an isolated body of water like the Caspian Sea is now. Its > > level was below sea level, and people settled along its shores. At some > > point in prehistory, sea levels rose and the Mediterranean Sea > > overflowed what are now Bosporus/Dardanelles Straits and the Black Sea > > rose up to sea level, flooding those along its shores, and the Black Sea > > is no longer isolated from the world's oceans. The version now in the > > Bible morphed into a worldwide flood as a punishment from God. > Sounds like a logical scenario. Having the entire world flood to the extent that *all* animals were destroyed except for those on the ark is pretty hard to swallow... or to defend. I suppose Noah had 2 sharks and 2 whales on his boat? Shrimp? Lobsters? A $hit-ton of other sea creatures? It seems like a lot of *details* were exaggerated in the bible... You only list beasts that do not breath air. Everything you list, Muttons, breaths water (and the oxygen contained therein). So they didn't qualify for God's kill list.
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| From | Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> |
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| Date | 2023-09-22 17:55 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <07612ea0-19d4-41ee-9019-265b2f6817d5n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #620707 |
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 10:19:45 AM UTC-7, patdolan wrote: > On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 10:00:50 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote: > > On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 9:48:10 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: > > > On 9/22/2023 12:03 AM, Paul Alsing wrote: > > > > > > > I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction. > > > > > > > > As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that! > > > > > Several cultures have flood legends. One scientific theory is that the > > > Black Sea was an isolated body of water like the Caspian Sea is now. Its > > > level was below sea level, and people settled along its shores. At some > > > point in prehistory, sea levels rose and the Mediterranean Sea > > > overflowed what are now Bosporus/Dardanelles Straits and the Black Sea > > > rose up to sea level, flooding those along its shores, and the Black Sea > > > is no longer isolated from the world's oceans. The version now in the > > > Bible morphed into a worldwide flood as a punishment from God. > > Sounds like a logical scenario. Having the entire world flood to the extent that *all* animals were destroyed except for those on the ark is pretty hard to swallow... or to defend. I suppose Noah had 2 sharks and 2 whales on his boat? Shrimp? Lobsters? A $hit-ton of other sea creatures? It seems like a lot of *details* were exaggerated in the bible... > You only list beasts that do not breath air. Everything you list, Muttons, breaths water (and the oxygen contained therein). So they didn't qualify for God's kill list. Are you so dense that you do not understand that whales breath air? Moron.
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| From | patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> |
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| Date | 2023-09-22 10:17 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <5054802b-66d3-4026-b9b5-d0f8265d50d2n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #620655 |
On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 9:48:10 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: > On 9/22/2023 12:03 AM, Paul Alsing wrote: > > > I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction. > > > > As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that! > Several cultures have flood legends. One scientific theory is that the > Black Sea was an isolated body of water like the Caspian Sea is now. Its > level was below sea level, and people settled along its shores. At some > point in prehistory, sea levels rose and the Mediterranean Sea > overflowed what are now Bosporus/Dardanelles Straits and the Black Sea > rose up to sea level, flooding those along its shores, and the Black Sea > is no longer isolated from the world's oceans. The version now in the > Bible morphed into a worldwide flood as a punishment from God. EVERY culture has a world flood story. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths Conclusion there was no Flood. Competing conclusion: the sons and daughters-in-law of Grandpa and Grandma Noah passed on the Flood story with compelling authority.
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| From | Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> |
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| Date | 2023-09-22 14:13 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ueklgd$bt4q$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #620706 |
On 9/22/2023 1:17 PM, patdolan wrote: > On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 9:48:10 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: >> On 9/22/2023 12:03 AM, Paul Alsing wrote: >> >>> I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction. >>> >>> As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that! >> Several cultures have flood legends. One scientific theory is that the >> Black Sea was an isolated body of water like the Caspian Sea is now. Its >> level was below sea level, and people settled along its shores. At some >> point in prehistory, sea levels rose and the Mediterranean Sea >> overflowed what are now Bosporus/Dardanelles Straits and the Black Sea >> rose up to sea level, flooding those along its shores, and the Black Sea >> is no longer isolated from the world's oceans. The version now in the >> Bible morphed into a worldwide flood as a punishment from God. > EVERY culture has a world flood story. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths That article never claims "EVERY" culture has a flood myth, just across a "wide range" of cultures. It even starts off how Africa has relatively few flood legends, and in Egypt the floods were good, not catastrophic. So you just made up garbage and pretended it was true. > > Conclusion there was no Flood. Competing conclusion: the sons and daughters-in-law of Grandpa and Grandma Noah passed on the Flood story with compelling authority. False dichotomy. Another conclusion, there were many different floods in many different places causing many different cultures to have many different flood legends. And many with no flood legend, likely because they never experienced any flood catastrophic to live on in legend. Not to mention, what kind of evil God punishes all humans except for 8, and every (air breathing) animal except for two of each species, for the evil of most humans. Why didn't God do a lot of "smiting" only the evil humans, leaving us with legends of, perhaps, a catastrophic thunderstorm of smiting leaving nearly every human dead instead. Nor do you address how a lethally tight bottleneck of 2 (5 for humans) didn't cause the extinction of every species of air-breathing animal.
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| From | patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> |
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| Date | 2023-09-22 12:16 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <00ddcf76-6ba6-4762-8c5b-b93dfce9cbb9n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #620713 |
On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 11:13:38 AM UTC-7, Volney wrote: > On 9/22/2023 1:17 PM, patdolan wrote: > > On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 9:48:10 PM UTC-7, Volney wrote: > >> On 9/22/2023 12:03 AM, Paul Alsing wrote: > >> > >>> I look forward to your epistle regarding the Great Flood... I love a good work of fiction. > >>> > >>> As always, any scrap of evidence would be good for your side... and good luck with that! > >> Several cultures have flood legends. One scientific theory is that the > >> Black Sea was an isolated body of water like the Caspian Sea is now. Its > >> level was below sea level, and people settled along its shores. At some > >> point in prehistory, sea levels rose and the Mediterranean Sea > >> overflowed what are now Bosporus/Dardanelles Straits and the Black Sea > >> rose up to sea level, flooding those along its shores, and the Black Sea > >> is no longer isolated from the world's oceans. The version now in the > >> Bible morphed into a worldwide flood as a punishment from God. > > > EVERY culture has a world flood story. > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths > That article never claims "EVERY" culture has a flood myth, just across > a "wide range" of cultures. It even starts off how Africa has relatively > few flood legends, and in Egypt the floods were good, not catastrophic. > So you just made up garbage and pretended it was true. > > > > Conclusion there was no Flood. Competing conclusion: the sons and daughters-in-law of Grandpa and Grandma Noah passed on the Flood story with compelling authority. > False dichotomy. Another conclusion, there were many different floods in All cultures have been used to spring flooding, flash floods, tsunamis from the sea, etc. Yet they never composed myths to those commonly occurring events. No Volney. All these ancient cultures composed their myths to a single, unique, gigantic world event. An event that rang down the corridors of history. A myth told them by their originals parents: Japeth to the white man; Ham to the black; and Shem to the yellow. > many different places causing many different cultures to have many > different flood legends. And many with no flood legend, likely because > they never experienced any flood catastrophic to live on in legend. > > Not to mention, what kind of evil God punishes all humans except for 8, > and every (air breathing) animal except for two of each species, for the > evil of most humans. Why didn't God do a lot of "smiting" only the evil > humans, leaving us with legends of, perhaps, a catastrophic thunderstorm > of smiting leaving nearly every human dead instead. Nor do you address > how a lethally tight bottleneck of 2 (5 for humans) didn't cause the > extinction of every species of air-breathing animal.
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