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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #604214 > unrolled thread
| Started by | "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2023-03-15 14:58 -0700 |
| Last post | 2023-03-15 22:44 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 42 — 5 participants |
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Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-03-15 14:58 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-03-15 15:07 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-03-15 15:16 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-03-15 15:23 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-03-15 17:57 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-03-15 19:52 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-03-15 19:59 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-03-15 22:20 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-03-16 10:50 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-03-16 11:17 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-03-16 11:28 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-03-16 11:40 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-03-16 11:42 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-03-17 10:41 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-03-17 13:33 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-03-17 13:50 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-03-17 18:25 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-03-17 19:09 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-03-17 21:45 -0500
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-03-17 20:34 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-03-18 10:30 -0500
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-03-18 10:00 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-03-18 10:16 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-03-18 10:29 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-03-18 11:23 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-03-18 11:47 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-03-18 18:43 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-03-18 23:16 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-03-19 09:59 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-03-20 10:31 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-03-20 16:54 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-03-20 18:44 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-03-20 19:39 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-03-20 20:33 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-03-21 09:56 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-03-21 14:44 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-03-21 15:07 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-03-21 20:58 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-03-17 22:39 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-03-18 12:19 -0500
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-03-16 11:38 -0700
Re: Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-03-15 22:44 -0700
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| From | "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-03-15 14:58 -0700 |
| Subject | Black holes don't exist because there is a universal Gamma speed limit |
| Message-ID | <e561952e-163f-4420-9f42-e5b4a3e7588cn@googlegroups.com> |
just as there is a speed limit there is a gravitational acceleration limit. As GR's increasing speeds(accelerations) still must obey fall below light speed.. Mitchell Raemsch
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| From | Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-03-15 15:07 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <fd0e2816-501a-4dfc-a1de-3d1e74159621n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #604214 |
Black holes don't exist because properties an idiot physicist is assigning to them are expelling existence and expelling each other.
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| From | "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-03-15 15:16 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <3c33b12b-dbe4-4487-a917-f29aedbb8141n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #604215 |
Gamma math shows there is a push limit for force and propulsion... the atom cannot reach the speed of light... You cannot end time.
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| From | JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-03-15 15:23 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <525a83b0-766a-46f9-8bf2-f1c1bf4cda0cn@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #604214 |
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:58:20 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > just as there is a speed limit there is a gravitational > acceleration limit. As GR's increasing speeds(accelerations) > still must obey fall below light speed.. They do. The speeds you mention are merely coordinate speeds which can be arbitrary, in general. -- Jan
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| From | "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-03-15 17:57 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <b3d67c22-b7d2-4fc8-80e7-531029d0f2bfn@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #604218 |
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 3:23:49 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:58:20 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > just as there is a speed limit there is a gravitational > > acceleration limit. As GR's increasing speeds(accelerations) > > still must obey fall below light speed.. > They do. The speeds you mention are merely coordinate speeds which > can be arbitrary, in general. Speed is speed jan and there is a speed limit defined by Gamma. BHs event horizons have always been know as the place where falling reaches the speed of light and goes beyond inside a BH by more gravity there. Mitchell Raemsch > > -- > Jan
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| From | JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-03-15 19:52 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7d00a853-6b43-4b58-8ec2-cbb926f4b5a1n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #604235 |
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:57:41 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 3:23:49 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:58:20 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > just as there is a speed limit there is a gravitational > > > acceleration limit. As GR's increasing speeds(accelerations) > > > still must obey fall below light speed.. > > They do. The speeds you mention are merely coordinate speeds which > > can be arbitrary, in general. > > Speed is speed jan and there is a speed limit defined by Gamma. False. You won't get anywhere with this by just making stuff up. > BHs event horizons have always been know as the place > where falling reaches the speed of light False. In the Schwarzschild coordinates the falling speed tends to zero, not the speed of light. > and goes beyond > inside a BH by more gravity there. Again, false. The speed always remains less than of light, that's what it means for the infalling trajectory to be timelike. Just get off this horse, it won't get you anywhere anymore. -- Jan
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| From | "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-03-15 19:59 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <9a035b17-9295-4717-9331-bf315e97d1ecn@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #604243 |
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:52:09 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:57:41 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 3:23:49 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:58:20 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > just as there is a speed limit there is a gravitational > > > > acceleration limit. As GR's increasing speeds(accelerations) > > > > still must obey fall below light speed.. > > > They do. The speeds you mention are merely coordinate speeds which > > > can be arbitrary, in general. > > > > Speed is speed jan and there is a speed limit defined by Gamma. > False. Gamma demonstrates the speed limit the atom must obey. There are no BHs. > > You won't get anywhere with this by just making stuff up. > > BHs event horizons have always been know as the place > > where falling reaches the speed of light > False. In the Schwarzschild coordinates the falling speed > tends to zero, not the speed of light. Then light speed at zero hangs on the event horizon jan? > > and goes beyond > > inside a BH by more gravity there. > Again, false. The speed always remains less than of light, > that's what it means for the infalling trajectory to be timelike. > > Just get off this horse, it won't get you anywhere anymore. > > -- > Jan Is it false jan that Einstein never believed in the BH? He didn't. Mitchell Raemsch
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| From | JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-03-15 22:20 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <b32c618c-4c13-448e-af79-0e2e5f7a14d2n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #604245 |
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:59:17 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:52:09 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:57:41 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 3:23:49 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:58:20 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > just as there is a speed limit there is a gravitational > > > > > acceleration limit. As GR's increasing speeds(accelerations) > > > > > still must obey fall below light speed.. > > > > They do. The speeds you mention are merely coordinate speeds which > > > > can be arbitrary, in general. > > > > > > Speed is speed jan and there is a speed limit defined by Gamma. > > False. > Gamma demonstrates the speed limit the atom must obey. > There are no BHs. > > > > You won't get anywhere with this by just making stuff up. > > > BHs event horizons have always been know as the place > > > where falling reaches the speed of light > > False. In the Schwarzschild coordinates the falling speed > > tends to zero, not the speed of light. > Then light speed at zero hangs on the event horizon jan? > > > and goes beyond > > > inside a BH by more gravity there. > > Again, false. The speed always remains less than of light, > > that's what it means for the infalling trajectory to be timelike. > > > > Just get off this horse, it won't get you anywhere anymore. > > > > -- > > Jan > Is it false jan that Einstein never believed in the BH? > He didn't. Done. -- Jan
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| From | "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-03-16 10:50 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <0f40e84d-b433-4e13-8e2f-0955d0087fdfn@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #604255 |
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 10:20:45 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:59:17 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:52:09 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:57:41 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 3:23:49 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:58:20 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > just as there is a speed limit there is a gravitational > > > > > > acceleration limit. As GR's increasing speeds(accelerations) > > > > > > still must obey fall below light speed.. > > > > > They do. The speeds you mention are merely coordinate speeds which > > > > > can be arbitrary, in general. > > > > > > > > Speed is speed jan and there is a speed limit defined by Gamma. > > > False. > > Gamma demonstrates the speed limit the atom must obey. > > There are no BHs. > > > > > > You won't get anywhere with this by just making stuff up. > > > > BHs event horizons have always been know as the place > > > > where falling reaches the speed of light > > > False. In the Schwarzschild coordinates the falling speed > > > tends to zero, not the speed of light. > > Then light speed at zero hangs on the event horizon jan? > > > > and goes beyond > > > > inside a BH by more gravity there. > > > Again, false. The speed always remains less than of light, > > > that's what it means for the infalling trajectory to be timelike. > > > > > > Just get off this horse, it won't get you anywhere anymore. > > > > > > -- > > > Jan > > Is it false jan that Einstein never believed in the BH? > > He didn't. > Done. That is what they all say where they have been undone... There is no BH in reality. It is just an overshoot in the theory of maximum strength. Gravity strength has a limit instead... by Gamma... We are seeing those super mass look a likes.... BHs have already lost. . > Jan
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| From | JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-03-16 11:17 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <b7ed2e42-2809-4982-ac1f-f3234bf8fcd3n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #604328 |
On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 10:50:24 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 10:20:45 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:59:17 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:52:09 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:57:41 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 3:23:49 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:58:20 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > just as there is a speed limit there is a gravitational > > > > > > > acceleration limit. As GR's increasing speeds(accelerations) > > > > > > > still must obey fall below light speed.. > > > > > > They do. The speeds you mention are merely coordinate speeds which > > > > > > can be arbitrary, in general. > > > > > > > > > > Speed is speed jan and there is a speed limit defined by Gamma. > > > > False. > > > Gamma demonstrates the speed limit the atom must obey. > > > There are no BHs. > > > > > > > > You won't get anywhere with this by just making stuff up. > > > > > BHs event horizons have always been know as the place > > > > > where falling reaches the speed of light > > > > False. In the Schwarzschild coordinates the falling speed > > > > tends to zero, not the speed of light. > > > Then light speed at zero hangs on the event horizon jan? > > > > > and goes beyond > > > > > inside a BH by more gravity there. > > > > Again, false. The speed always remains less than of light, > > > > that's what it means for the infalling trajectory to be timelike. > > > > > > > > Just get off this horse, it won't get you anywhere anymore. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Jan > > > Is it false jan that Einstein never believed in the BH? > > > He didn't. > > Done. > That is what they all say where they have been undone... > There is no BH in reality. Again, you are changing the subject now. First of all, many (most?) physicists also think BH do not exist in the sense of a boundary of existence at a finite distance or finite time. This is most likely a consequence of the fact that GR ignores quantum phenomena. But again most(?) physicists think horizons do exist more or less as in the GR model. We'll see [pun intended]. > It is just an overshoot in the > theory of maximum strength. Gravity strength has > a limit instead... by Gamma... > We are seeing those super mass look a likes.... > BHs have already lost. You are again trying to smash open an open door. -- Jan
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| From | "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-03-16 11:28 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <66c5ebf1-009a-40e3-a07c-9fde63848b62n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #604332 |
On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:18:00 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 10:50:24 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 10:20:45 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:59:17 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:52:09 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:57:41 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 3:23:49 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:58:20 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > just as there is a speed limit there is a gravitational > > > > > > > > acceleration limit. As GR's increasing speeds(accelerations) > > > > > > > > still must obey fall below light speed.. > > > > > > > They do. The speeds you mention are merely coordinate speeds which > > > > > > > can be arbitrary, in general. > > > > > > > > > > > > Speed is speed jan and there is a speed limit defined by Gamma. > > > > > False. > > > > Gamma demonstrates the speed limit the atom must obey. > > > > There are no BHs. > > > > > > > > > > You won't get anywhere with this by just making stuff up. > > > > > > BHs event horizons have always been know as the place > > > > > > where falling reaches the speed of light > > > > > False. In the Schwarzschild coordinates the falling speed > > > > > tends to zero, not the speed of light. > > > > Then light speed at zero hangs on the event horizon jan? > > > > > > and goes beyond > > > > > > inside a BH by more gravity there. > > > > > Again, false. The speed always remains less than of light, > > > > > that's what it means for the infalling trajectory to be timelike. > > > > > > > > > > Just get off this horse, it won't get you anywhere anymore. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Jan > > > > Is it false jan that Einstein never believed in the BH? > > > > He didn't. > > > Done. > > That is what they all say where they have been undone... > > There is no BH in reality. > Again, you are changing the subject now. > > First of all, many (most?) physicists also think BH do not exist in Andthere is proof that the theory is not real. > the sense of a boundary of existence at a finite distance or finite > time. This is most likely a consequence of the fact that GR > ignores quantum phenomena. > > But again most(?) physicists think horizons do exist more or less > as in the GR model. We'll see [pun intended]. > > It is just an overshoot in the > > theory of maximum strength. Gravity strength has > > a limit instead... by Gamma... > > We are seeing those super mass look a likes.... > > BHs have already lost. > You are again trying to smash open an open door. > > -- > Jan Gamma shows the universal speed limit that gravity and acceleration must obey. No reaching light speed by the atom in physics... by force or propulsion... Mitchell Raemsch
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| From | JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-03-16 11:40 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <d8eea195-c7b7-440f-a5b6-8ecac5328453n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #604335 |
On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:28:58 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:18:00 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 10:50:24 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 10:20:45 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:59:17 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:52:09 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:57:41 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 3:23:49 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:58:20 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > just as there is a speed limit there is a gravitational > > > > > > > > > acceleration limit. As GR's increasing speeds(accelerations) > > > > > > > > > still must obey fall below light speed.. > > > > > > > > They do. The speeds you mention are merely coordinate speeds which > > > > > > > > can be arbitrary, in general. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Speed is speed jan and there is a speed limit defined by Gamma. > > > > > > False. > > > > > Gamma demonstrates the speed limit the atom must obey. > > > > > There are no BHs. > > > > > > > > > > > > You won't get anywhere with this by just making stuff up. > > > > > > > BHs event horizons have always been know as the place > > > > > > > where falling reaches the speed of light > > > > > > False. In the Schwarzschild coordinates the falling speed > > > > > > tends to zero, not the speed of light. > > > > > Then light speed at zero hangs on the event horizon jan? > > > > > > > and goes beyond > > > > > > > inside a BH by more gravity there. > > > > > > Again, false. The speed always remains less than of light, > > > > > > that's what it means for the infalling trajectory to be timelike. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just get off this horse, it won't get you anywhere anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Jan > > > > > Is it false jan that Einstein never believed in the BH? > > > > > He didn't. > > > > Done. > > > That is what they all say where they have been undone... > > > There is no BH in reality. > > Again, you are changing the subject now. > > > > First of all, many (most?) physicists also think BH do not exist in > Andthere is proof that the theory is not real. > > the sense of a boundary of existence at a finite distance or finite > > time. This is most likely a consequence of the fact that GR > > ignores quantum phenomena. > > > > But again most(?) physicists think horizons do exist more or less > > as in the GR model. We'll see [pun intended]. > > > It is just an overshoot in the > > > theory of maximum strength. Gravity strength has > > > a limit instead... by Gamma... > > > We are seeing those super mass look a likes.... > > > BHs have already lost. > > You are again trying to smash open an open door. > > > > -- > > Jan > Gamma shows the universal speed limit that gravity and acceleration must obey. But coordinate speeds are not subject to this limitation. That's why your original post was incorrect. -- Jan
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| From | Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-03-16 11:42 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <8ebc0b4d-2ebb-41a4-a274-0fbcced7a73cn@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #604341 |
On Thursday, 16 March 2023 at 19:40:47 UTC+1, JanPB wrote: > But coordinate speeds are not subject to this limitation. And what other speed does your physics have, poor halfbrain?
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| From | "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-03-17 10:41 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <48dbbce4-35d4-4ab7-850d-f7ea64489b53n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #604341 |
On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:40:47 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:28:58 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:18:00 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 10:50:24 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 10:20:45 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:59:17 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:52:09 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:57:41 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 3:23:49 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:58:20 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > just as there is a speed limit there is a gravitational > > > > > > > > > > acceleration limit. As GR's increasing speeds(accelerations) > > > > > > > > > > still must obey fall below light speed.. > > > > > > > > > They do. The speeds you mention are merely coordinate speeds which > > > > > > > > > can be arbitrary, in general. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Speed is speed jan and there is a speed limit defined by Gamma. > > > > > > > False. > > > > > > Gamma demonstrates the speed limit the atom must obey. > > > > > > There are no BHs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You won't get anywhere with this by just making stuff up. > > > > > > > > BHs event horizons have always been know as the place > > > > > > > > where falling reaches the speed of light > > > > > > > False. In the Schwarzschild coordinates the falling speed > > > > > > > tends to zero, not the speed of light. > > > > > > Then light speed at zero hangs on the event horizon jan? > > > > > > > > and goes beyond > > > > > > > > inside a BH by more gravity there. > > > > > > > Again, false. The speed always remains less than of light, > > > > > > > that's what it means for the infalling trajectory to be timelike. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just get off this horse, it won't get you anywhere anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Jan > > > > > > Is it false jan that Einstein never believed in the BH? > > > > > > He didn't. > > > > > Done. > > > > That is what they all say where they have been undone... > > > > There is no BH in reality. > > > Again, you are changing the subject now. > > > > > > First of all, many (most?) physicists also think BH do not exist in > > Andthere is proof that the theory is not real. > > > the sense of a boundary of existence at a finite distance or finite > > > time. This is most likely a consequence of the fact that GR > > > ignores quantum phenomena. > > > > > > But again most(?) physicists think horizons do exist more or less > > > as in the GR model. We'll see [pun intended]. > > > > It is just an overshoot in the > > > > theory of maximum strength. Gravity strength has > > > > a limit instead... by Gamma... > > > > We are seeing those super mass look a likes.... > > > > BHs have already lost. > > > You are again trying to smash open an open door. > > > > > > -- > > > Jan > > Gamma shows the universal speed limit that gravity and acceleration must obey. > But coordinate speeds are not subject to this limitation. That is where you are wrong. All atomic speed shares the same limit demonstrated by the Gamma...or below c you moron... your coordinate speeds are not special... Mitchell Raemsch > That's why your original post was incorrect. > > -- > Jan
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| From | JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-03-17 13:33 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <067fd14f-7885-4f35-bb6d-1dbb87e94306n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #604445 |
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 10:41:07 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:40:47 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:28:58 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:18:00 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 10:50:24 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 10:20:45 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:59:17 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:52:09 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:57:41 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 3:23:49 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:58:20 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > just as there is a speed limit there is a gravitational > > > > > > > > > > > acceleration limit. As GR's increasing speeds(accelerations) > > > > > > > > > > > still must obey fall below light speed.. > > > > > > > > > > They do. The speeds you mention are merely coordinate speeds which > > > > > > > > > > can be arbitrary, in general. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Speed is speed jan and there is a speed limit defined by Gamma. > > > > > > > > False. > > > > > > > Gamma demonstrates the speed limit the atom must obey. > > > > > > > There are no BHs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You won't get anywhere with this by just making stuff up. > > > > > > > > > BHs event horizons have always been know as the place > > > > > > > > > where falling reaches the speed of light > > > > > > > > False. In the Schwarzschild coordinates the falling speed > > > > > > > > tends to zero, not the speed of light. > > > > > > > Then light speed at zero hangs on the event horizon jan? > > > > > > > > > and goes beyond > > > > > > > > > inside a BH by more gravity there. > > > > > > > > Again, false. The speed always remains less than of light, > > > > > > > > that's what it means for the infalling trajectory to be timelike. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just get off this horse, it won't get you anywhere anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Jan > > > > > > > Is it false jan that Einstein never believed in the BH? > > > > > > > He didn't. > > > > > > Done. > > > > > That is what they all say where they have been undone... > > > > > There is no BH in reality. > > > > Again, you are changing the subject now. > > > > > > > > First of all, many (most?) physicists also think BH do not exist in > > > Andthere is proof that the theory is not real. > > > > the sense of a boundary of existence at a finite distance or finite > > > > time. This is most likely a consequence of the fact that GR > > > > ignores quantum phenomena. > > > > > > > > But again most(?) physicists think horizons do exist more or less > > > > as in the GR model. We'll see [pun intended]. > > > > > It is just an overshoot in the > > > > > theory of maximum strength. Gravity strength has > > > > > a limit instead... by Gamma... > > > > > We are seeing those super mass look a likes.... > > > > > BHs have already lost. > > > > You are again trying to smash open an open door. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Jan > > > Gamma shows the universal speed limit that gravity and acceleration must obey. > > > > But coordinate speeds are not subject to this limitation. > > That is where you are wrong. No, I am 100% correct. And I gave you a proof already: when you turn your head 90 degrees to the left, the Andromeda galaxy moves 90 degrees to the right at a coordinate speed far exceeding that of light. Coorfdinate speeds are merely accounting devices, they don't have immediate physical meaning (they do have a meaning after processing the data but they don't have a meaning as bare numbers which can be ARBITRARY). > All atomic speed shares the same limit demonstrated by > the Gamma...or below c you moron... your coordinate speeds are not special... No, false. Coordinate speeds can be ARBITRARY. What you are referring to is speeds measured in proper (Riemannian) coordinates which are very special. Bottom line is that any trajectory in GR that's timelike, is automatically below the c speed limit. So there is nothing left to discuss here. -- Jan
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| From | Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-03-17 13:50 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <fefe90d0-0155-4594-9c48-2f7d102146a3n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #604471 |
On Friday, 17 March 2023 at 21:33:30 UTC+1, JanPB wrote: > On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 10:41:07 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:40:47 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:28:58 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:18:00 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 10:50:24 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 10:20:45 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:59:17 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:52:09 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:57:41 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 3:23:49 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:58:20 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > just as there is a speed limit there is a gravitational > > > > > > > > > > > > acceleration limit. As GR's increasing speeds(accelerations) > > > > > > > > > > > > still must obey fall below light speed.. > > > > > > > > > > > They do. The speeds you mention are merely coordinate speeds which > > > > > > > > > > > can be arbitrary, in general. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Speed is speed jan and there is a speed limit defined by Gamma. > > > > > > > > > False. > > > > > > > > Gamma demonstrates the speed limit the atom must obey. > > > > > > > > There are no BHs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You won't get anywhere with this by just making stuff up. > > > > > > > > > > BHs event horizons have always been know as the place > > > > > > > > > > where falling reaches the speed of light > > > > > > > > > False. In the Schwarzschild coordinates the falling speed > > > > > > > > > tends to zero, not the speed of light. > > > > > > > > Then light speed at zero hangs on the event horizon jan? > > > > > > > > > > and goes beyond > > > > > > > > > > inside a BH by more gravity there. > > > > > > > > > Again, false. The speed always remains less than of light, > > > > > > > > > that's what it means for the infalling trajectory to be timelike. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just get off this horse, it won't get you anywhere anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > Jan > > > > > > > > Is it false jan that Einstein never believed in the BH? > > > > > > > > He didn't. > > > > > > > Done. > > > > > > That is what they all say where they have been undone... > > > > > > There is no BH in reality. > > > > > Again, you are changing the subject now. > > > > > > > > > > First of all, many (most?) physicists also think BH do not exist in > > > > Andthere is proof that the theory is not real. > > > > > the sense of a boundary of existence at a finite distance or finite > > > > > time. This is most likely a consequence of the fact that GR > > > > > ignores quantum phenomena. > > > > > > > > > > But again most(?) physicists think horizons do exist more or less > > > > > as in the GR model. We'll see [pun intended]. > > > > > > It is just an overshoot in the > > > > > > theory of maximum strength. Gravity strength has > > > > > > a limit instead... by Gamma... > > > > > > We are seeing those super mass look a likes.... > > > > > > BHs have already lost. > > > > > You are again trying to smash open an open door. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Jan > > > > Gamma shows the universal speed limit that gravity and acceleration must obey. > > > > > > But coordinate speeds are not subject to this limitation. > > > > That is where you are wrong. > No, I am 100% correct. And I gave you a proof already: when you turn > your head 90 degrees to the left, the Andromeda galaxy moves 90 > degrees to the right at a coordinate speed far exceeding that of light. > > Coorfdinate speeds are merely accounting devices and what other speeds do you have, poor halfbrain?
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| From | "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-03-17 18:25 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <c656e4f9-09e3-4ab0-9064-6b9b0e0b0f2bn@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #604471 |
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:33:30 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 10:41:07 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:40:47 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:28:58 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:18:00 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 10:50:24 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 10:20:45 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:59:17 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:52:09 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:57:41 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 3:23:49 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:58:20 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > just as there is a speed limit there is a gravitational > > > > > > > > > > > > acceleration limit. As GR's increasing speeds(accelerations) > > > > > > > > > > > > still must obey fall below light speed.. > > > > > > > > > > > They do. The speeds you mention are merely coordinate speeds which > > > > > > > > > > > can be arbitrary, in general. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Speed is speed jan and there is a speed limit defined by Gamma. > > > > > > > > > False. > > > > > > > > Gamma demonstrates the speed limit the atom must obey. > > > > > > > > There are no BHs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You won't get anywhere with this by just making stuff up. > > > > > > > > > > BHs event horizons have always been know as the place > > > > > > > > > > where falling reaches the speed of light > > > > > > > > > False. In the Schwarzschild coordinates the falling speed > > > > > > > > > tends to zero, not the speed of light. > > > > > > > > Then light speed at zero hangs on the event horizon jan? > > > > > > > > > > and goes beyond > > > > > > > > > > inside a BH by more gravity there. > > > > > > > > > Again, false. The speed always remains less than of light, > > > > > > > > > that's what it means for the infalling trajectory to be timelike. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just get off this horse, it won't get you anywhere anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > Jan > > > > > > > > Is it false jan that Einstein never believed in the BH? > > > > > > > > He didn't. > > > > > > > Done. > > > > > > That is what they all say where they have been undone... > > > > > > There is no BH in reality. > > > > > Again, you are changing the subject now. > > > > > > > > > > First of all, many (most?) physicists also think BH do not exist in > > > > Andthere is proof that the theory is not real. > > > > > the sense of a boundary of existence at a finite distance or finite > > > > > time. This is most likely a consequence of the fact that GR > > > > > ignores quantum phenomena. > > > > > > > > > > But again most(?) physicists think horizons do exist more or less > > > > > as in the GR model. We'll see [pun intended]. > > > > > > It is just an overshoot in the > > > > > > theory of maximum strength. Gravity strength has > > > > > > a limit instead... by Gamma... > > > > > > We are seeing those super mass look a likes.... > > > > > > BHs have already lost. > > > > > You are again trying to smash open an open door. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Jan > > > > Gamma shows the universal speed limit that gravity and acceleration must obey. > > > > > > But coordinate speeds are not subject to this limitation. > > > > That is where you are wrong. > No, I am 100% correct. And I gave you a proof already: when you turn > your head 90 degrees to the left, the Andromeda galaxy moves 90 > degrees to the right at a coordinate speed far exceeding that of light. > > Coorfdinate speeds are merely accounting devices, they don't have > immediate physical meaning (they do have a meaning after processing > the data but they don't have a meaning as bare numbers which can > be ARBITRARY). Falling at the speed of light is real in BH theory jan. That is why BHs are wrong. Mitchell Raemsch > > All atomic speed shares the same limit demonstrated by > > the Gamma...or below c you moron... your coordinate speeds are not special... > No, false. Coordinate speeds can be ARBITRARY. What you are referring to > is speeds measured in proper (Riemannian) coordinates which are very > special. > > Bottom line is that any trajectory in GR that's timelike, is automatically > below the c speed limit. > > So there is nothing left to discuss here. > > -- > Jan
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| From | JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-03-17 19:09 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <8b84452a-0abd-4e75-9243-2b21470595e3n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #604499 |
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 6:26:01 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:33:30 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 10:41:07 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:40:47 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:28:58 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:18:00 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > > On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 10:50:24 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 10:20:45 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:59:17 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:52:09 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:57:41 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 3:23:49 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:58:20 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > just as there is a speed limit there is a gravitational > > > > > > > > > > > > > acceleration limit. As GR's increasing speeds(accelerations) > > > > > > > > > > > > > still must obey fall below light speed.. > > > > > > > > > > > > They do. The speeds you mention are merely coordinate speeds which > > > > > > > > > > > > can be arbitrary, in general. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Speed is speed jan and there is a speed limit defined by Gamma. > > > > > > > > > > False. > > > > > > > > > Gamma demonstrates the speed limit the atom must obey. > > > > > > > > > There are no BHs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You won't get anywhere with this by just making stuff up. > > > > > > > > > > > BHs event horizons have always been know as the place > > > > > > > > > > > where falling reaches the speed of light > > > > > > > > > > False. In the Schwarzschild coordinates the falling speed > > > > > > > > > > tends to zero, not the speed of light. > > > > > > > > > Then light speed at zero hangs on the event horizon jan? > > > > > > > > > > > and goes beyond > > > > > > > > > > > inside a BH by more gravity there. > > > > > > > > > > Again, false. The speed always remains less than of light, > > > > > > > > > > that's what it means for the infalling trajectory to be timelike. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just get off this horse, it won't get you anywhere anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Jan > > > > > > > > > Is it false jan that Einstein never believed in the BH? > > > > > > > > > He didn't. > > > > > > > > Done. > > > > > > > That is what they all say where they have been undone... > > > > > > > There is no BH in reality. > > > > > > Again, you are changing the subject now. > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all, many (most?) physicists also think BH do not exist in > > > > > Andthere is proof that the theory is not real. > > > > > > the sense of a boundary of existence at a finite distance or finite > > > > > > time. This is most likely a consequence of the fact that GR > > > > > > ignores quantum phenomena. > > > > > > > > > > > > But again most(?) physicists think horizons do exist more or less > > > > > > as in the GR model. We'll see [pun intended]. > > > > > > > It is just an overshoot in the > > > > > > > theory of maximum strength. Gravity strength has > > > > > > > a limit instead... by Gamma... > > > > > > > We are seeing those super mass look a likes.... > > > > > > > BHs have already lost. > > > > > > You are again trying to smash open an open door. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Jan > > > > > Gamma shows the universal speed limit that gravity and acceleration must obey. > > > > > > > > But coordinate speeds are not subject to this limitation. > > > > > > That is where you are wrong. > > No, I am 100% correct. And I gave you a proof already: when you turn > > your head 90 degrees to the left, the Andromeda galaxy moves 90 > > degrees to the right at a coordinate speed far exceeding that of light. > > > > Coorfdinate speeds are merely accounting devices, they don't have > > immediate physical meaning (they do have a meaning after processing > > the data but they don't have a meaning as bare numbers which can > > be ARBITRARY). > Falling at the speed of light is real in BH theory jan. It's false. I have shown you the actual formulas. > That is why BHs are wrong. If it's wrong, it's not for that reason. The "speed of light" crossing of the horizon is simply a measurement made by a distant observer on the outside using certain types of measuring devices. The actual object that's falling in does so along a trajectory that's always timelike. This means it never goes faster than the speed of light. -- Jan
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| From | whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-03-17 21:45 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <k7kmu7Fl7eU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #604516 |
On 3/17/2023 9:09 PM, JanPB wrote: > On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 6:26:01 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: >> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:33:30 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: >>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 10:41:07 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: >>>> On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:40:47 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: >>>>> On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:28:58 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:18:00 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: >>>>>>> On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 10:50:24 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 10:20:45 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:59:17 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:52:09 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:57:41 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 3:23:49 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:58:20 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> just as there is a speed limit there is a gravitational >>>>>>>>>>>>>> acceleration limit. As GR's increasing speeds(accelerations) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> still must obey fall below light speed.. >>>>>>>>>>>>> They do. The speeds you mention are merely coordinate speeds which >>>>>>>>>>>>> can be arbitrary, in general. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Speed is speed jan and there is a speed limit defined by Gamma. >>>>>>>>>>> False. >>>>>>>>>> Gamma demonstrates the speed limit the atom must obey. >>>>>>>>>> There are no BHs. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You won't get anywhere with this by just making stuff up. >>>>>>>>>>>> BHs event horizons have always been know as the place >>>>>>>>>>>> where falling reaches the speed of light >>>>>>>>>>> False. In the Schwarzschild coordinates the falling speed >>>>>>>>>>> tends to zero, not the speed of light. >>>>>>>>>> Then light speed at zero hangs on the event horizon jan? >>>>>>>>>>>> and goes beyond >>>>>>>>>>>> inside a BH by more gravity there. >>>>>>>>>>> Again, false. The speed always remains less than of light, >>>>>>>>>>> that's what it means for the infalling trajectory to be timelike. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Just get off this horse, it won't get you anywhere anymore. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Jan >>>>>>>>>> Is it false jan that Einstein never believed in the BH? >>>>>>>>>> He didn't. >>>>>>>>> Done. >>>>>>>> That is what they all say where they have been undone... >>>>>>>> There is no BH in reality. >>>>>>> Again, you are changing the subject now. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> First of all, many (most?) physicists also think BH do not exist in >>>>>> Andthere is proof that the theory is not real. >>>>>>> the sense of a boundary of existence at a finite distance or finite >>>>>>> time. This is most likely a consequence of the fact that GR >>>>>>> ignores quantum phenomena. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But again most(?) physicists think horizons do exist more or less >>>>>>> as in the GR model. We'll see [pun intended]. >>>>>>>> It is just an overshoot in the >>>>>>>> theory of maximum strength. Gravity strength has >>>>>>>> a limit instead... by Gamma... >>>>>>>> We are seeing those super mass look a likes.... >>>>>>>> BHs have already lost. >>>>>>> You are again trying to smash open an open door. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Jan >>>>>> Gamma shows the universal speed limit that gravity and acceleration must obey. >>>>> >>>>> But coordinate speeds are not subject to this limitation. >>>> >>>> That is where you are wrong. >>> No, I am 100% correct. And I gave you a proof already: when you turn >>> your head 90 degrees to the left, the Andromeda galaxy moves 90 >>> degrees to the right at a coordinate speed far exceeding that of light. >>> >>> Coorfdinate speeds are merely accounting devices, they don't have >>> immediate physical meaning (they do have a meaning after processing >>> the data but they don't have a meaning as bare numbers which can >>> be ARBITRARY). >> Falling at the speed of light is real in BH theory jan. > > It's false. I have shown you the actual formulas. > >> That is why BHs are wrong. > > If it's wrong, it's not for that reason. The "speed of light" crossing > of the horizon is simply a measurement made by a distant observer > on the outside using certain types of measuring devices. The actual > object that's falling in does so along a trajectory that's always timelike. > This means it never goes faster than the speed of light. I wouldn't go so far as to state that the same rules of nature that apply to the general universe remain unquestionably unaltered inside an event horizon. There is a goodly history of cogent discussions related to that topic. Unfortunately we do not have the sort of readership that would lend itself to sentient discussions about this so it is probably best I stop right here. But I will mention that Wheeler had a discussion (can probably be found on YouTube) clearly indicating that the rules of nature have not "always been." If there was a beginning then they are not permanently fixed. That's enough for me to recognize that there are a myriad of legitimate possibilities for unusual circumstances without understanding enough about such conditions to take a particular stance in any specific example. There, I think I've incorporated enough hedges to keep me out of any serious trouble. :-) Still, sane readers can decipher the above enough to make it useful.
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| From | JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-03-17 20:34 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <3159b947-0fc5-49c7-9b17-310cb0ae576an@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #604524 |
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 7:45:31 PM UTC-7, whodat wrote: > On 3/17/2023 9:09 PM, JanPB wrote: > > On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 6:26:01 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > >> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 1:33:30 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > >>> On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 10:41:07 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > >>>> On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:40:47 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > >>>>> On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:28:58 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > >>>>>> On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 11:18:00 AM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > >>>>>>> On Thursday, March 16, 2023 at 10:50:24 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 10:20:45 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:59:17 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 7:52:09 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 5:57:41 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 3:23:49 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 2:58:20 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> just as there is a speed limit there is a gravitational > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> acceleration limit. As GR's increasing speeds(accelerations) > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> still must obey fall below light speed.. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> They do. The speeds you mention are merely coordinate speeds which > >>>>>>>>>>>>> can be arbitrary, in general. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Speed is speed jan and there is a speed limit defined by Gamma. > >>>>>>>>>>> False. > >>>>>>>>>> Gamma demonstrates the speed limit the atom must obey. > >>>>>>>>>> There are no BHs. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> You won't get anywhere with this by just making stuff up. > >>>>>>>>>>>> BHs event horizons have always been know as the place > >>>>>>>>>>>> where falling reaches the speed of light > >>>>>>>>>>> False. In the Schwarzschild coordinates the falling speed > >>>>>>>>>>> tends to zero, not the speed of light. > >>>>>>>>>> Then light speed at zero hangs on the event horizon jan? > >>>>>>>>>>>> and goes beyond > >>>>>>>>>>>> inside a BH by more gravity there. > >>>>>>>>>>> Again, false. The speed always remains less than of light, > >>>>>>>>>>> that's what it means for the infalling trajectory to be timelike. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Just get off this horse, it won't get you anywhere anymore. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>> Jan > >>>>>>>>>> Is it false jan that Einstein never believed in the BH? > >>>>>>>>>> He didn't. > >>>>>>>>> Done. > >>>>>>>> That is what they all say where they have been undone... > >>>>>>>> There is no BH in reality. > >>>>>>> Again, you are changing the subject now. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> First of all, many (most?) physicists also think BH do not exist in > >>>>>> Andthere is proof that the theory is not real. > >>>>>>> the sense of a boundary of existence at a finite distance or finite > >>>>>>> time. This is most likely a consequence of the fact that GR > >>>>>>> ignores quantum phenomena. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> But again most(?) physicists think horizons do exist more or less > >>>>>>> as in the GR model. We'll see [pun intended]. > >>>>>>>> It is just an overshoot in the > >>>>>>>> theory of maximum strength. Gravity strength has > >>>>>>>> a limit instead... by Gamma... > >>>>>>>> We are seeing those super mass look a likes.... > >>>>>>>> BHs have already lost. > >>>>>>> You are again trying to smash open an open door. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> Jan > >>>>>> Gamma shows the universal speed limit that gravity and acceleration must obey. > >>>>> > >>>>> But coordinate speeds are not subject to this limitation. > >>>> > >>>> That is where you are wrong. > >>> No, I am 100% correct. And I gave you a proof already: when you turn > >>> your head 90 degrees to the left, the Andromeda galaxy moves 90 > >>> degrees to the right at a coordinate speed far exceeding that of light. > >>> > >>> Coorfdinate speeds are merely accounting devices, they don't have > >>> immediate physical meaning (they do have a meaning after processing > >>> the data but they don't have a meaning as bare numbers which can > >>> be ARBITRARY). > >> Falling at the speed of light is real in BH theory jan. > > > > It's false. I have shown you the actual formulas. > > > >> That is why BHs are wrong. > > > > If it's wrong, it's not for that reason. The "speed of light" crossing > > of the horizon is simply a measurement made by a distant observer > > on the outside using certain types of measuring devices. The actual > > object that's falling in does so along a trajectory that's always timelike. > > This means it never goes faster than the speed of light. > I wouldn't go so far as to state that the same rules of nature that > apply to the general universe remain unquestionably unaltered inside > an event horizon. They do in GR. That's what the phrase "the theory predicts that..." means. -- Jan
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