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The mystery behind the Einstein-Besso 54 pages manuscript, hiidden for 40 years.

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  The mystery behind the Einstein-Besso 54 pages manuscript, hiidden for 40 years. hertz778@gmail.com (rhertz) - 2025-04-15 23:37 +0000
    Re: The mystery behind the Einstein-Besso 54 pages manuscript, hiidden for 40 years. hertz778@gmail.com (rhertz) - 2025-04-16 02:03 +0000
    Re: The mystery behind the Einstein-Besso 54 pages manuscript, hiidden for 40  years. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-04-15 21:30 -0700
      Re: The mystery behind the Einstein-Besso 54 pages manuscript, hiidden for 40 years. Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-04-16 00:19 -0500
        Re: The mystery behind the Einstein-Besso 54 pages manuscript, hiidden for 40 years. hertz778@gmail.com (rhertz) - 2025-04-16 15:15 +0000
          Re: The mystery behind the Einstein-Besso 54 pages manuscript, hiidden for 40 years. Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-04-16 16:51 -0500
      Re: The mystery behind the Einstein-Besso 54 pages manuscript, hiidden for 40   years. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-04-16 21:49 -0700
        Re: The mystery behind the Einstein-Besso 54 pages manuscript, hiidden for 40    years. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-04-16 22:20 -0700
    Re: The mystery behind the Einstein-Besso 54 pages manuscript, hiidden for 40 years. hertz778@gmail.com (rhertz) - 2025-04-16 15:17 +0000
      Re: The mystery behind the Einstein-Besso 54 pages manuscript, hiidden for 40 years. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-04-16 20:10 +0200
        Re: The mystery behind the Einstein-Besso 54 pages manuscript, hiidden for 40 years. Ken Babinoff Sum <feb@fiine.ru> - 2025-04-17 10:30 +0000

#662799 — The mystery behind the Einstein-Besso 54 pages manuscript, hiidden for 40 years.

Chat with DeepSeek:

QUESTION:

Tell me about the "54 pages Einstein-Besso manuscript" that Besso HELD
until his death in 1953. When this manuscript emerged, and was subject
to public auction in 1992, it also emerged fierce criticisms from
scholars during such dark period (1954-1990), which showed (with hundred
of references) how WRONG was the approach of the team on the Mercury
problem. It included an error of 3 magnitudes and negative sign in the
final calculation. Now, it's in public domain. Which is your opinion of
such manuscript and why do you believe it was hidden for 40 years by
Besso?


DEEPSEEK ANSWER:


The Einstein-Besso manuscript (1913) is one of the most controversial
and revealing documents in the history of general relativity (GR). Its
contents, hidden by Michele Besso until his death in 1953 and later
auctioned in 1992, expose critical errors in Einstein’s early approach
to the Mercury perihelion problem—errors that were orders of magnitude
wrong and even had the wrong sign in calculations.

Here’s a breakdown of the scandal, the manuscript’s implications, and
why Besso likely kept it secret for 40 years.

1. What the Manuscript Reveals
Date & Context: Written in June 1913, during Einstein and Besso’s
collaboration on the Entwurf theory (a flawed precursor to GR).

Goal: Calculate Mercury’s anomalous perihelion advance (43
arcseconds/century) using Einstein’s early gravitational field
equations.

Result:

Their calculation produced a value ~3 times too large (~180
arcseconds/century).

Worse, the sign was wrong (they predicted a retrograde shift, opposite
of observations).

The error stemmed from incorrect assumptions about the Sun’s
gravitational field and coordinate conditions.

2. Why This Was a Major Embarrassment
Einstein’s 1915 Triumph: Two years later, Einstein corrected these
mistakes in his final GR formulation, nailing the 43 arcseconds
prediction.

The Manuscript Proves:

Einstein and Besso struggled profoundly with GR’s math in 1913.

The Entwurf theory was fundamentally flawed—something Einstein later
downplayed.

Besso’s role was more than just a "sounding board"; he actively
participated in (failed) calculations.

3. Why Did Besso Keep It Hidden Until 1953?
Several theories explain the 40-year suppression:

A. Protecting Einstein’s Legacy
Besso was Einstein’s lifelong friend and loyal confidant.

Releasing the manuscript would have:

Undermined Einstein’s 1915 breakthrough by exposing earlier blunders.

Fueled criticism that GR was stumbled upon rather than deduced
rigorously.

B. Avoiding Personal Embarrassment
The manuscript shows Besso’s own mathematical errors, not just
Einstein’s.

Given Einstein’s later fame, Besso may have feared being seen as a
"failed collaborator."

C. Einstein’s Possible Request
Einstein destroyed many early drafts of his work.

He may have asked Besso to keep the manuscript private to control his
historical narrative.

4. The 1992 Auction & Scholarly Backlash
When the manuscript finally surfaced, historians (e.g., John Stachel,
Jürgen Renn) dissected it and found:

Mathematical Inconsistencies

The 1913 approach misapplied the metric’s boundary conditions.

Their field equations were not generally covariant (a flaw Einstein
later fixed).

Historical Revisionism

Einstein’s published accounts implied a smooth path to GR, but the
manuscript proves it was messy.

Besso’s Underrated Role

Far from a passive assistant, Besso was deeply involved in
calculations—yet erased from the official GR story.

5. My Opinion: Why This Matters
Debunks the "Lone Genius" Myth

Einstein’s path to GR was trial-and-error, aided (and hindered) by
collaborators.

Exposes the Politics of Scientific Legacy

The suppression resembles how Newton hid his alchemy—great scientists
often curate their image.

Raises Ethical Questions

Should Besso have released it earlier? Yes, for transparency.

But loyalty (and self-preservation) likely outweighed historical
honesty.

Final Thought
The Einstein-Besso manuscript is a smoking gun proving that even
geniuses make colossal mistakes—and sometimes, their friends help bury
them.

If you want the deepest analysis, I recommend:

The Genesis of General Relativity (Renn et al., 2007) – Volume 3
dissects the manuscript.

Einstein’s Mistakes (Hans Ohanian, 2008) – Lists his major errors,
including the Mercury miscalculation.

Would you like a comparison to other "hidden" scientific drafts (e.g.,
Newton’s alchemy)?

No. Thanks.

You're very welcome! If you ever want to dive deeper into Einstein’s
controversies, the history of relativity, or the hidden stories behind
other scientific breakthroughs, feel free to ask. These debates—about
credit, error, and legacy—are what make the history of science so
fascinating.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#662802

On the advice of Newcomb (through Lorentz and Freundlich) and, in
particular, from Schwarzschild, Einstein got rid of every planet that he
and Besso considered an influence. Also stop treating the Sun as a
liquid rotating sphere.

Going to the fundamentals of Newtonian celestial mechanics, a point-like
Sun was used with the sole presence of Mercury (Newcomb). This was the
original approach of Gerber, in his 1898 paper, who provided the final
formula that Einstein plagiarized, using a mixed math between Newton and
a hack of basic Grossman formula for space void of matter and energy. No
covariance was needed in this fraud.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#662804 — Re: The mystery behind the Einstein-Besso 54 pages manuscript, hiidden for 40 years.

it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that Albert Einstein is no
Einstein.




rhertz wrote:
> 
> Chat with DeepSeek:
> 
> QUESTION:
> 
> Tell me about the "54 pages Einstein-Besso manuscript" that Besso HELD
> until his death in 1953. When this manuscript emerged, and was subject
> to public auction in 1992, it also emerged fierce criticisms from
> scholars during such dark period (1954-1990), which showed (with hundred
> of references) how WRONG was the approach of the team on the Mercury
> problem. It included an error of 3 magnitudes and negative sign in the
> final calculation. Now, it's in public domain. Which is your opinion of
> such manuscript and why do you believe it was hidden for 40 years by
> Besso?
> 
> DEEPSEEK ANSWER:
> 
> The Einstein-Besso manuscript (1913) is one of the most controversial
> and revealing documents in the history of general relativity (GR). Its
> contents, hidden by Michele Besso until his death in 1953 and later
> auctioned in 1992, expose critical errors in Einstein’s early approach
> to the Mercury perihelion problem—errors that were orders of magnitude
> wrong and even had the wrong sign in calculations.
> 
> Here’s a breakdown of the scandal, the manuscript’s implications, and
> why Besso likely kept it secret for 40 years.
> 
> 1. What the Manuscript Reveals
> Date & Context: Written in June 1913, during Einstein and Besso’s
> collaboration on the Entwurf theory (a flawed precursor to GR).
> 
> Goal: Calculate Mercury’s anomalous perihelion advance (43
> arcseconds/century) using Einstein’s early gravitational field
> equations.
> 
> Result:
> 
> Their calculation produced a value ~3 times too large (~180
> arcseconds/century).
> 
> Worse, the sign was wrong (they predicted a retrograde shift, opposite
> of observations).
> 
> The error stemmed from incorrect assumptions about the Sun’s
> gravitational field and coordinate conditions.
> 
> 2. Why This Was a Major Embarrassment
> Einstein’s 1915 Triumph: Two years later, Einstein corrected these
> mistakes in his final GR formulation, nailing the 43 arcseconds
> prediction.
> 
> The Manuscript Proves:
> 
> Einstein and Besso struggled profoundly with GR’s math in 1913.
> 
> The Entwurf theory was fundamentally flawed—something Einstein later
> downplayed.
> 
> Besso’s role was more than just a "sounding board"; he actively
> participated in (failed) calculations.
> 
> 3. Why Did Besso Keep It Hidden Until 1953?
> Several theories explain the 40-year suppression:
> 
> A. Protecting Einstein’s Legacy
> Besso was Einstein’s lifelong friend and loyal confidant.
> 
> Releasing the manuscript would have:
> 
> Undermined Einstein’s 1915 breakthrough by exposing earlier blunders.
> 
> Fueled criticism that GR was stumbled upon rather than deduced
> rigorously.
> 
> B. Avoiding Personal Embarrassment
> The manuscript shows Besso’s own mathematical errors, not just
> Einstein’s.
> 
> Given Einstein’s later fame, Besso may have feared being seen as a
> "failed collaborator."
> 
> C. Einstein’s Possible Request
> Einstein destroyed many early drafts of his work.
> 
> He may have asked Besso to keep the manuscript private to control his
> historical narrative.
> 
> 4. The 1992 Auction & Scholarly Backlash
> When the manuscript finally surfaced, historians (e.g., John Stachel,
> Jürgen Renn) dissected it and found:
> 
> Mathematical Inconsistencies
> 
> The 1913 approach misapplied the metric’s boundary conditions.
> 
> Their field equations were not generally covariant (a flaw Einstein
> later fixed).
> 
> Historical Revisionism
> 
> Einstein’s published accounts implied a smooth path to GR, but the
> manuscript proves it was messy.
> 
> Besso’s Underrated Role
> 
> Far from a passive assistant, Besso was deeply involved in
> calculations—yet erased from the official GR story.
> 
> 5. My Opinion: Why This Matters
> Debunks the "Lone Genius" Myth
> 
> Einstein’s path to GR was trial-and-error, aided (and hindered) by
> collaborators.
> 
> Exposes the Politics of Scientific Legacy
> 
> The suppression resembles how Newton hid his alchemy—great scientists
> often curate their image.
> 
> Raises Ethical Questions
> 
> Should Besso have released it earlier? Yes, for transparency.
> 
> But loyalty (and self-preservation) likely outweighed historical
> honesty.
> 
> Final Thought
> The Einstein-Besso manuscript is a smoking gun proving that even
> geniuses make colossal mistakes—and sometimes, their friends help bury
> them.
> 
> If you want the deepest analysis, I recommend:
> 
> The Genesis of General Relativity (Renn et al., 2007) – Volume 3
> dissects the manuscript.
> 
> Einstein’s Mistakes (Hans Ohanian, 2008) – Lists his major errors,
> including the Mercury miscalculation.
> 
> Would you like a comparison to other "hidden" scientific drafts (e.g.,
> Newton’s alchemy)?
> 
> No. Thanks.
> 
> You're very welcome! If you ever want to dive deeper into Einstein’s
> controversies, the history of relativity, or the hidden stories behind
> other scientific breakthroughs, feel free to ask. These debates—about
> credit, error, and legacy—are what make the history of science so
> fascinating.

-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, 
and challenge the unchallengeable.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#662806

On 4/15/25 11:30 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that Albert Einstein is no
> Einstein.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rhertz wrote:
>>
>> Chat with DeepSeek:
>>
>> QUESTION:
>>
>> Tell me about the "54 pages Einstein-Besso manuscript" that Besso HELD
>> until his death in 1953. When this manuscript emerged, and was subject
>> to public auction in 1992, it also emerged fierce criticisms from
>> scholars during such dark period (1954-1990), which showed (with hundred
>> of references) how WRONG was the approach of the team on the Mercury
>> problem. It included an error of 3 magnitudes and negative sign in the
>> final calculation. Now, it's in public domain. Which is your opinion of
>> such manuscript and why do you believe it was hidden for 40 years by
>> Besso?
>>
>> DEEPSEEK ANSWER:
>>
>> The Einstein-Besso manuscript (1913) is one of the most controversial
>> and revealing documents in the history of general relativity (GR). Its
>> contents, hidden by Michele Besso until his death in 1953 and later
>> auctioned in 1992, expose critical errors in Einstein’s early approach
>> to the Mercury perihelion problem—errors that were orders of magnitude
>> wrong and even had the wrong sign in calculations.
>>
>> ...


Star, tell him that's how science works. The way to get there is messy 
and full of mistakes, but some eventually get there! The sugar coating 
comes later for sex reasons :)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#662819

On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 5:19:09 +0000, Physfitfreak wrote:

> On 4/15/25 11:30 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
>> it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that Albert Einstein is no
>> Einstein.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> rhertz wrote:
>>>
>>> Chat with DeepSeek:
>>>
>>> QUESTION:
>>>
>>> Tell me about the "54 pages Einstein-Besso manuscript" that Besso HELD
>>> until his death in 1953. When this manuscript emerged, and was subject
>>> to public auction in 1992, it also emerged fierce criticisms from
>>> scholars during such dark period (1954-1990), which showed (with hundred
>>> of references) how WRONG was the approach of the team on the Mercury
>>> problem. It included an error of 3 magnitudes and negative sign in the
>>> final calculation. Now, it's in public domain. Which is your opinion of
>>> such manuscript and why do you believe it was hidden for 40 years by
>>> Besso?
>>>
>>> DEEPSEEK ANSWER:
>>>
>>> The Einstein-Besso manuscript (1913) is one of the most controversial
>>> and revealing documents in the history of general relativity (GR). Its
>>> contents, hidden by Michele Besso until his death in 1953 and later
>>> auctioned in 1992, expose critical errors in Einstein’s early approach
>>> to the Mercury perihelion problem—errors that were orders of magnitude
>>> wrong and even had the wrong sign in calculations.
>>>
>>> ...
>
>
> Star, tell him that's how science works. The way to get there is messy
> and full of mistakes, but some eventually get there! The sugar coating
> comes later for sex reasons :)


Self-entitled imbecile. Do you really need a mediator to communicate
your ignorant comments about how does science works? Who the fuck are
you to pretend to represent the entire scientific community? You're just
a little prick, and a coward one.


Science, in particular "hard" science, which requires knowing a massive
amount of mathematics, plus CRITICAL THINKING and DEEP INSIGHTS, doesn't
reach final or intermediate results by performing "Brownian" actions,
mostly random, to see if some valid result is achieved.

In particular, if a given project starts with TWO COMPLETE IGNORANTS OF
ASTRONOMY like Einstein and Besso.

To realize how IGNORANT and how LOST in the field they were by 1913, YOU
HAVE TO ANALYZE THE MANUSCRIPT (which I did, and you didn't). IN DETAIL.
Then you can estimate how LOST they were when they tried to figure out
the missing arcseconds.

Didn't you ask yourself how come the Mercury's problem was one of the
three predictions done by Einstein around 1911-1912 that he WOULD
EXPLAIN BY USING RELATIVITY?

No, you didn't, because you're a blind imbecile who follow the rules of
your messiah blindly.

When Einstein announced his goal to extend relativity to include
gravity, and later published his 1911 paper, he couldn't have written
anything more stupid when he tried to find holes in the
keplerian-newtonian physics.

In a short period of time, around 1910, he became aware of prior works
on missing parts of celestial mechanics and the impact of the behavior
of light in astronomy, as well as the speed of gravity (instead of the
infamous "action at a distance"). So, he obtained information, through
his network of advisors, of:

- 1801 Von Soldner paper about the deflection of light due to gravity,
which he
  plagiarized in 1911 WITHOUT ANY SHAME.

- 1897 Gerber paper about retarded potentials and the speed of gravity,
which
  explained MATHEMATICALLY the speed of gravity, using Mercury's data
available
  by then (Newcomb, among others), which was USED AS AN ENTRY PARAMETER.
The final
  Gerber's formula was the obsession of Einstein, who tried in vain to
obtain such
  result by using spacetime to replace retarded potentials. He FAILED
MISERABLY
  TRYING THIS, WITH BESSO, in 1913. Read the 54 pages manuscript to
realize HOW
  INCREDIBLY IGNORANT WERE BOTH about celestial mechanics.

The Nov. 1915 paper about Mercury IS NOT a reasonable evolution of what
they
believed and wrote about by 1913. It's a RADICAL DEPARTURE from such
HIDDEN paper,
which was written UNDER THE GUIDANCE OF PROFESSIONAL ASTRONOMERS
(Freundlich and
Schwartzchild).

All the crap written by 1913 was completely DELETED (and proofs were
hidden by Besso), and a radical fresh start was done in 1915, by using
ORIGINAL NEWTONIAN
MATHEMATICS, conveniently modified by a HACKED RESULT of his basic GR
equation (the modification of the gravitational potential in the middle
of the paper).

There are traces in the 1913 manuscript that they were looking for a
pseudo-newtonian equation using polynomials with three and four roots to
describe Mercury's orbit, and approximations to resolve such polynomials
(which had no analytical solution) by decomposing them in: A newtonian
quadratic polynomial MULTIPLIED BY ONE OR TWO ADDITIONAL ROOTS. But the
context that the IGNORANT COUPLE used was to insert influences of every
fucking planet plus the Sun as a liquid, rotating sphere.

Do the work to analyze the historical data, AND USE YOUR FUCKING BRAIN.
You'll realize then, that the 1915 paper (which was a reverse
engineering of Gerber's paper) WAS NOT THE WORK OF EINSTEIN, who didn't
know SHIT about astronomy (as Lorentz said in 1920: "Einstein is not an
astronomer, but....."). Lorentz himself
somehow questioned the work of Einstein, after his peak in fame. And he
told that to a couple of journalists. Fact-check this.


Einstein DID NEVER DO SCIENCE: His entire career of 10 years (1905-1915)
is plagued with fraud, steal, cheating, plagiarism, back-stabbing,
intellectual work sequestering and appropriation, lies, hypocrisy,
cynicism and A HEAVY HELP OF FRIENDS. He's as fake as a three dollars
bill, but he was sustained in fame for political AND RELIGIOUS
interests.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#662830

On 4/16/25 10:15 AM, rhertz wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 5:19:09 +0000, Physfitfreak wrote:
> 
>> On 4/15/25 11:30 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
>>> it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that Albert Einstein is no
>>> Einstein.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> rhertz wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Chat with DeepSeek:
>>>>
>>>> QUESTION:
>>>>
>>>> Tell me about the "54 pages Einstein-Besso manuscript" that Besso HELD
>>>> until his death in 1953. When this manuscript emerged, and was subject
>>>> to public auction in 1992, it also emerged fierce criticisms from
>>>> scholars during such dark period (1954-1990), which showed (with 
>>>> hundred
>>>> of references) how WRONG was the approach of the team on the Mercury
>>>> problem. It included an error of 3 magnitudes and negative sign in the
>>>> final calculation. Now, it's in public domain. Which is your opinion of
>>>> such manuscript and why do you believe it was hidden for 40 years by
>>>> Besso?
>>>>
>>>> DEEPSEEK ANSWER:
>>>>
>>>> The Einstein-Besso manuscript (1913) is one of the most controversial
>>>> and revealing documents in the history of general relativity (GR). Its
>>>> contents, hidden by Michele Besso until his death in 1953 and later
>>>> auctioned in 1992, expose critical errors in Einstein’s early 
>>>> approach
>>>> to the Mercury perihelion problem—errors that were orders of 
>>>> magnitude
>>>> wrong and even had the wrong sign in calculations.
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>
>>
>> Star, tell him that's how science works. The way to get there is messy
>> and full of mistakes, but some eventually get there! The sugar coating
>> comes later for sex reasons :)
> 
> 
> Self-entitled imbecile. Do you really need a mediator to communicate
> your ignorant comments about how does science works? Who the fuck are
> you to pretend to represent the entire scientific community? You're just
> a little prick, and a coward one.
> 
> 
> Science, in particular "hard" science, which requires knowing a massive
> amount of mathematics, plus CRITICAL THINKING and DEEP INSIGHTS, doesn't
> reach final or intermediate results by performing "Brownian" actions,
> mostly random, to see if some valid result is achieved.
> 
> In particular, if a given project starts with TWO COMPLETE IGNORANTS OF
> ASTRONOMY like Einstein and Besso.
> 
> To realize how IGNORANT and how LOST in the field they were by 1913, YOU
> HAVE TO ANALYZE THE MANUSCRIPT (which I did, and you didn't). IN DETAIL.
> Then you can estimate how LOST they were when they tried to figure out
> the missing arcseconds.
> 
> Didn't you ask yourself how come the Mercury's problem was one of the
> three predictions done by Einstein around 1911-1912 that he WOULD
> EXPLAIN BY USING RELATIVITY?
> 
> No, you didn't, because you're a blind imbecile who follow the rules of
> your messiah blindly.
> 
> When Einstein announced his goal to extend relativity to include
> gravity, and later published his 1911 paper, he couldn't have written
> anything more stupid when he tried to find holes in the
> keplerian-newtonian physics.
> 
> In a short period of time, around 1910, he became aware of prior works
> on missing parts of celestial mechanics and the impact of the behavior
> of light in astronomy, as well as the speed of gravity (instead of the
> infamous "action at a distance"). So, he obtained information, through
> his network of advisors, of:
> 
> - 1801 Von Soldner paper about the deflection of light due to gravity,
> which he
>   plagiarized in 1911 WITHOUT ANY SHAME.
> 
> - 1897 Gerber paper about retarded potentials and the speed of gravity,
> which
>   explained MATHEMATICALLY the speed of gravity, using Mercury's data
> available
>   by then (Newcomb, among others), which was USED AS AN ENTRY PARAMETER.
> The final
>   Gerber's formula was the obsession of Einstein, who tried in vain to
> obtain such
>   result by using spacetime to replace retarded potentials. He FAILED
> MISERABLY
>   TRYING THIS, WITH BESSO, in 1913. Read the 54 pages manuscript to
> realize HOW
>   INCREDIBLY IGNORANT WERE BOTH about celestial mechanics.
> 
> The Nov. 1915 paper about Mercury IS NOT a reasonable evolution of what
> they
> believed and wrote about by 1913. It's a RADICAL DEPARTURE from such
> HIDDEN paper,
> which was written UNDER THE GUIDANCE OF PROFESSIONAL ASTRONOMERS
> (Freundlich and
> Schwartzchild).
> 
> All the crap written by 1913 was completely DELETED (and proofs were
> hidden by Besso), and a radical fresh start was done in 1915, by using
> ORIGINAL NEWTONIAN
> MATHEMATICS, conveniently modified by a HACKED RESULT of his basic GR
> equation (the modification of the gravitational potential in the middle
> of the paper).
> 
> There are traces in the 1913 manuscript that they were looking for a
> pseudo-newtonian equation using polynomials with three and four roots to
> describe Mercury's orbit, and approximations to resolve such polynomials
> (which had no analytical solution) by decomposing them in: A newtonian
> quadratic polynomial MULTIPLIED BY ONE OR TWO ADDITIONAL ROOTS. But the
> context that the IGNORANT COUPLE used was to insert influences of every
> fucking planet plus the Sun as a liquid, rotating sphere.
> 
> Do the work to analyze the historical data, AND USE YOUR FUCKING BRAIN.
> You'll realize then, that the 1915 paper (which was a reverse
> engineering of Gerber's paper) WAS NOT THE WORK OF EINSTEIN, who didn't
> know SHIT about astronomy (as Lorentz said in 1920: "Einstein is not an
> astronomer, but....."). Lorentz himself
> somehow questioned the work of Einstein, after his peak in fame. And he
> told that to a couple of journalists. Fact-check this.
> 
> 
> Einstein DID NEVER DO SCIENCE: His entire career of 10 years (1905-1915)
> is plagued with fraud, steal, cheating, plagiarism, back-stabbing,
> intellectual work sequestering and appropriation, lies, hypocrisy,
> cynicism and A HEAVY HELP OF FRIENDS. He's as fake as a three dollars
> bill, but he was sustained in fame for political AND RELIGIOUS
> interests.



You know Physfit's dick that well?.. :) It's ok you're not the first one 
desiring direct talk with it.

That dick has a hunch to "directly" share with you though. You may be a 
high school drop out. Or a first year university drop out?.. Either of 
the two. _This_ is the gist of what you post in this forum, not what you 
post in this forum. So Physfit's dick doesn't pay attention to you directly.

The dick has a nice physics background by the way. Don't let it make you 
so sour. It wants you to be happy. Go to Church, it tells you :) It's 
good for you.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#662837 — Re: The mystery behind the Einstein-Besso 54 pages manuscript, hiidden for 40 years.

The Starmaker wrote:
> 
> it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that Albert Einstein is no
> Einstein.

Of course there 'is no such thing' as an Einstein because an Einstein
doesn't exist.

That is just an 'image' they created of an Einstein.


The smartest person in the world? Makes no mistakes (maybe one mistake
about a signature)??


Come on, get real people!


This nonsense has to stop.


And there is only one solution...The Final Solution.


Exterminate them all.


Then you will have world peace.








-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, 
and challenge the unchallengeable.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#662839 — Re: The mystery behind the Einstein-Besso 54 pages manuscript, hiidden for 40 years.

The Starmaker wrote:
> 
> The Starmaker wrote:
> >
> > it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that Albert Einstein is no
> > Einstein.
> 
> Of course there 'is no such thing' as an Einstein because an Einstein
> doesn't exist.
> 
> That is just an 'image' they created of an Einstein.
> 
> The smartest person in the world? Makes no mistakes (maybe one mistake
> about a signature)??
> 
> Come on, get real people!
> 
> This nonsense has to stop.
> 
> And there is only one solution...The Final Solution.
> 
> Exterminate them all.
> 
> Then you will have world peace.


In other words, you are not allowed to 'criterzies' Albert Einstein,
otherwise they
will blackball you.

In Hollywood the term they use against others is, "You Never Work In
This Town Again".


These people are religious gangsters...terroists.


Gangsters and terroists need to be ...eliminated.





-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, 
and challenge the unchallengeable.

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#662820

On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 5:19:09 +0000, Physfitfreak wrote:

> On 4/15/25 11:30 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
>> it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that Albert Einstein is no
>> Einstein.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> rhertz wrote:
>>>
>>> Chat with DeepSeek:
>>>
>>> QUESTION:
>>>
>>> Tell me about the "54 pages Einstein-Besso manuscript" that Besso HELD
>>> until his death in 1953. When this manuscript emerged, and was subject
>>> to public auction in 1992, it also emerged fierce criticisms from
>>> scholars during such dark period (1954-1990), which showed (with hundred
>>> of references) how WRONG was the approach of the team on the Mercury
>>> problem. It included an error of 3 magnitudes and negative sign in the
>>> final calculation. Now, it's in public domain. Which is your opinion of
>>> such manuscript and why do you believe it was hidden for 40 years by
>>> Besso?
>>>
>>> DEEPSEEK ANSWER:
>>>
>>> The Einstein-Besso manuscript (1913) is one of the most controversial
>>> and revealing documents in the history of general relativity (GR). Its
>>> contents, hidden by Michele Besso until his death in 1953 and later
>>> auctioned in 1992, expose critical errors in Einstein’s early approach
>>> to the Mercury perihelion problem—errors that were orders of magnitude
>>> wrong and even had the wrong sign in calculations.
>>>
>>> ...
>
>
> Star, tell him that's how science works. The way to get there is messy
> and full of mistakes, but some eventually get there! The sugar coating
> comes later for sex reasons :)


Self-entitled imbecile. Do you really need a mediator to communicate
your ignorant comments about how does science works? Who the fuck are
you to pretend to represent the entire scientific community? You're just
a little prick, and a coward one.


Science, in particular "hard" science, which requires knowing a massive
amount of mathematics, plus CRITICAL THINKING and DEEP INSIGHTS, doesn't
reach final or intermediate results by performing "Brownian" actions,
mostly random, to see if some valid result is achieved.

In particular, if a given project starts with TWO COMPLETE IGNORANTS OF
ASTRONOMY like Einstein and Besso.

To realize how IGNORANT and how LOST in the field they were by 1913, YOU
HAVE TO ANALYZE THE MANUSCRIPT (which I did, and you didn't). IN DETAIL.
Then you can estimate how LOST they were when they tried to figure out
the missing arcseconds.

Didn't you ask yourself how come the Mercury's problem was one of the
three predictions done by Einstein around 1911-1912 that he WOULD
EXPLAIN BY USING RELATIVITY?

No, you didn't, because you're a blind imbecile who follow the rules of
your messiah blindly.

When Einstein announced his goal to extend relativity to include
gravity, and later published his 1911 paper, he couldn't have written
anything more stupid when he tried to find holes in the
keplerian-newtonian physics.

In a short period of time, around 1910, he became aware of prior works
on missing parts of celestial mechanics and the impact of the behavior
of light in astronomy, as well as the speed of gravity (instead of the
infamous "action at a distance"). So, he obtained information, through
his network of advisors, of:

- 1801 Von Soldner paper about the deflection of light due to gravity,
which he
  plagiarized in 1911 WITHOUT ANY SHAME.

- 1897 Gerber paper about retarded potentials and the speed of gravity,
which
  explained MATHEMATICALLY the speed of gravity, using Mercury's data
available
  by then (Newcomb, among others), which was USED AS AN ENTRY PARAMETER.
The final
  Gerber's formula was the obsession of Einstein, who tried in vain to
obtain such
  result by using spacetime to replace retarded potentials. He FAILED
MISERABLY
  TRYING THIS, WITH BESSO, in 1913. Read the 54 pages manuscript to
realize HOW
  INCREDIBLY IGNORANT WERE BOTH about celestial mechanics.

The Nov. 1915 paper about Mercury IS NOT a reasonable evolution of what
they
believed and wrote about by 1913. It's a RADICAL DEPARTURE from such
HIDDEN paper,
which was written UNDER THE GUIDANCE OF PROFESSIONAL ASTRONOMERS
(Freundlich and
Schwartzchild).

All the crap written by 1913 was completely DELETED (and proofs were
hidden by Besso), and a radical fresh start was done in 1915, by using
ORIGINAL NEWTONIAN
MATHEMATICS, conveniently modified by a HACKED RESULT of his basic GR
equation (the modification of the gravitational potential in the middle
of the paper).

There are traces in the 1913 manuscript that they were looking for a
pseudo-newtonian equation using polynomials with three and four roots to
describe Mercury's orbit, and approximations to resolve such polynomials
(which had no analytical solution) by decomposing them in: A newtonian
quadratic polynomial MULTIPLIED BY ONE OR TWO ADDITIONAL ROOTS. But the
context that the IGNORANT COUPLE used was to insert influences of every
fucking planet plus the Sun as a liquid, rotating sphere.

Do the work to analyze the historical data, AND USE YOUR FUCKING BRAIN.
You'll realize then, that the 1915 paper (which was a reverse
engineering of Gerber's paper) WAS NOT THE WORK OF EINSTEIN, who didn't
know SHIT about astronomy (as Lorentz said in 1920: "Einstein is not an
astronomer, but....."). Lorentz himself
somehow questioned the work of Einstein, after his peak in fame. And he
told that to a couple of journalists. Fact-check this.


Einstein DID NEVER DO SCIENCE: His entire career of 10 years (1905-1915)
is plagued with fraud, steal, cheating, plagiarism, back-stabbing,
intellectual work sequestering and appropriation, lies, hypocrisy,
cynicism and A HEAVY HELP OF FRIENDS. He's as fake as a three dollars
bill, but he was sustained in fame for political AND RELIGIOUS
interests.

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#662826

rhertz <hertz778@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 5:19:09 +0000, Physfitfreak wrote:
> 
> > On 4/15/25 11:30 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> >> it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that Albert Einstein is no
> >> Einstein.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> rhertz wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Chat with DeepSeek:
> >>>
> >>> QUESTION:
> >>>
> >>> Tell me about the "54 pages Einstein-Besso manuscript" that Besso HELD
> >>> until his death in 1953. When this manuscript emerged, and was subject
> >>> to public auction in 1992, it also emerged fierce criticisms from
> >>> scholars during such dark period (1954-1990), which showed (with hundred
> >>> of references) how WRONG was the approach of the team on the Mercury
> >>> problem. It included an error of 3 magnitudes and negative sign in the
> >>> final calculation. Now, it's in public domain. Which is your opinion of
> >>> such manuscript and why do you believe it was hidden for 40 years by
> >>> Besso?
> >>>
> >>> DEEPSEEK ANSWER:
> >>>
> >>> The Einstein-Besso manuscript (1913) is one of the most controversial
> >>> and revealing documents in the history of general relativity (GR). Its
> >>> contents, hidden by Michele Besso until his death in 1953 and later
> >>> auctioned in 1992, expose critical errors in Einstein’s early approach
> >>> to the Mercury perihelion problemâ€"errors that were orders of magnitude
> >>> wrong and even had the wrong sign in calculations.
> >>>
> >>> ...
> >
> >
> > Star, tell him that's how science works. The way to get there is messy
> > and full of mistakes, but some eventually get there! The sugar coating
> > comes later for sex reasons :)
> 
> 
> Self-entitled imbecile. Do you really need a mediator to communicate
> your ignorant comments about how does science works? Who the fuck are
> you to pretend to represent the entire scientific community? You're just
> a little prick, and a coward one.
> describe Mercury's orbit, and approximations to resolve such polynomials
> (which had no analytical solution) by decomposing them in: A newtonian
> quadratic polynomial MULTIPLIED BY ONE OR TWO ADDITIONAL ROOTS. But the
> context that the IGNORANT COUPLE used was to insert influences of every
> fucking planet plus the Sun as a liquid, rotating sphere.

Kookfight!

Jan

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#662845

J. J. Lodder wrote:

> rhertz <hertz778@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 5:19:09 +0000, Physfitfreak wrote:
>> > Star, tell him that's how science works. The way to get there is
>> > messy and full of mistakes, but some eventually get there! The sugar
>> > coating comes later for sex reasons :)
>> 
>> describe Mercury's orbit, and approximations to resolve such
>> polynomials (which had no analytical solution) by decomposing them in:
>> A newtonian quadratic polynomial MULTIPLIED BY ONE OR TWO ADDITIONAL
>> ROOTS. But the context that the IGNORANT COUPLE used was to insert
>> influences of every fucking planet plus the Sun as a liquid, rotating
>> sphere.
> 
> Kookfight! Jan

you dont undrestand, Jan, the mistakes up there is about depopulation, 
vaccines and resets. Love for the animals being eaten, probably, but I'm 
not sure, why they are doing it all the time.

some things has to be read carefully, Jan, in order to be undrestood.

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