Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #592572 > unrolled thread

Please Explain Simultaneous Events in This Scenario

Back to article view | Back to sci.physics.relativity

Contents

  Please Explain Simultaneous Events in This Scenario "sepp623@yahoo.com" <sepp623@yahoo.com> - 2022-09-29 20:56 -0700
    Re: Please Explain Simultaneous Events in This Scenario Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-09-29 22:04 -0700
      Re: Please Explain Simultaneous Events in This Scenario "sepp623@yahoo.com" <sepp623@yahoo.com> - 2022-10-01 04:41 -0700
        Re: Please Explain Simultaneous Events in This Scenario Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-10-01 09:26 -0700
          Re: Please Explain Simultaneous Events in This Scenario patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-10-01 09:30 -0700
    Re: Please Explain Simultaneous Events in This Scenario The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-09-29 23:15 -0700
      Re: Please Explain Simultaneous Events in This Scenario "sepp623@yahoo.com" <sepp623@yahoo.com> - 2022-09-30 16:35 -0700
        Re: Please Explain Simultaneous Events in This Scenario The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-09-30 22:32 -0700

#592572 — Please Explain Simultaneous Events in This Scenario

Please explain how Einstein's concepts of simultaneous events works in this scenario.
   There is an inertial reference frame F0 that has two identical discs in the y-z plane centered on the x-axis a distance L apart. I'll call one disc disc A and the other disc disc B.  There is an elastic band that stretches from A to B that is attached to the top of each disc. And there is an elastic band that stretches from A to B that is attached to the bottom of each disc.  Once the elastic bands are attached to each disc, disc B is rotated 10 times and then stopped. This causes the two elastic bands to intertwine with each other 10 times across the length L.  Now each disc is attached to a motor.  Each motor is off. But when either motor is turned on the motor  rotates at a rate of 10 rotations a second as measured in F0.
   Now there is a second inertial reference frame F1.  Frame F1 is moving with velocity V along the x-axis relative to F0.  The velocity V is such that two  events one second apart across the length of L in F0 are  simultaneous in F1.  At the start of this scenario when the two motors are off, observers in F1 see that the two elastic bands wrap around each other 10 times just as it  is in F0.
      Now F1 starts each motor in F0 simultaneously as viewed in F1. In F0 these two events occur 1 second apart. The motors rotate 10 revolutions per second. Since one motor rotates 10 times before the other motor starts its rotation, the two bands as seen in F0 unwind their intertwining of 10 rotations that the elastic bands had when the motors were turned off (assuming the rotation direction unwinds the elastic bands). So in F0 the two elastic bands no longer intertwine and they become parallel to each other.
      So what do observers in F1 see?  Before the rotations were started, each elastic band was wrapped around each other 10 times as observed both in F0 and F1.  If the rotations were started simultaneously in F1, do the F1 observers still say the two elastic bands are wrapped around each other 10 times?  If not, how do observers in F1 explain how the two elastic bands are now not wrapped around each other 10 times as they were when the rotations were started simultaneously in F1?
Thanks,
David Seppala
Bastrop TX

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#592579

On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 8:56:22 PM UTC-7, sep...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Please explain...

This is the same question you asked several times previously, and it was fully explained to you in detail, and all your follow-up questions and confusions were answered.  Remember?  If not, you can find those threads by searching the google newsgroup archive.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#592687

On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 12:04:02 AM UTC-5, Stan Fultoni wrote:
> On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 8:56:22 PM UTC-7, sep...@yahoo.com wrote: 
> > Please explain... 
> 
> This is the same question you asked several times previously, and it was fully explained to you in detail, and all your follow-up questions and confusions were answered. Remember? If not, you can find those threads by searching the google newsgroup archive.

Explain why the observers in F1 observe that if each disc starts their rotations simultaneously in F1 there is a far different outcome if both discs rotate in the clockwise direction than there is if both discs start their rotations simultaneously in the counterclockwise direction. In F0, the F0 observers observe that if the rotations are started in one direction, the bands intertwine with each other 20 times but if the rotation is in the opposite direction the bands no longer intertwine with each other.
David Seppala
Bastrop TX

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#592693

On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 4:41:54 AM UTC-7, sep...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Explain why ...

You asked this same question several times previously, and each time it was patiently explained to you in detail, and all your follow-up questions, fallacies, non-sequiturs, and confusions were thoroughly cleared up. Remember? If not, you can find those threads by searching the google newsgroup archive.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#592694

On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 9:26:19 AM UTC-7, Stan Fultoni wrote:
> On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 4:41:54 AM UTC-7, sep...@yahoo.com wrote: 
> > Explain why ... 
> 
> You asked this same question several times previously, and each time it was patiently explained to you in detail, and all your follow-up questions, fallacies, non-sequiturs, and confusions were thoroughly cleared up. Remember? If not, you can find those threads by searching the google newsgroup archive.

"This is an excellent thought experiment of falsification, David Seppala of Bastrap TX.  I took Stan Fultoni's advice and look up his prior attempts to refute.  The are insufficient.  I urge Stan to try again.  But Stan has a history of running away--at least, from me.  

Stan Fultoni
Aug 25, 2022, 1:51:09 PM



to
On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 1:05:28 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote: 
> Let's extend the length of the copper wire from L to infinite length. 

LOL. Case closed. "

Remember?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#592585

sepp623@yahoo.com wrote:
> 
> Please explain how Einstein's concepts of simultaneous events works in this scenario.
> 
>    Now there is a second inertial reference frame F1.  Frame F1 is moving with velocity V along the x-axis relative to F0.  The velocity V is such that two  events one second apart across the length of L in F0 are  simultaneous in F1.  At the start of this scenario when the two motors are off, observers in F1 see that the two elastic bands wrap around each other 10 times just as it  is in F0.
>       Now F1 starts each motor in F0 simultaneously as viewed in F1. In F0 these two events occur 1 second apart. The motors rotate 10 revolutions per second. Since one motor rotates 10 times before the other motor starts its rotation, the two bands as seen in F0 unwind their intertwining of 10 rotations that the elastic bands had when the motors were turned off (assuming the rotation direction unwinds the elastic bands). So in F0 the two elastic bands no longer intertwine and they become parall
>       So what do observers in F1 see?  Before the rotations were started, each elastic band was wrapped around each other 10 times as observed both in F0 and F1.  If the rotations were started simultaneously in F1, do the F1 observers still say the two elastic bands are wrapped around each other 10 times?  If not, how do observers in F1 explain how the two elastic bands are now not wrapped around each other 10 times as they were when the rotations were started simultaneously in F1?
> Thanks,
> David Seppala
> Bastrop TX

"elastic bands"????  wat is dat, british talk? You mean 'rubber bands'! Only queers say elastic bands...you ain't no steer from texsas.




-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
 to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge
 the unchallengeable.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#592663

On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 1:15:28 AM UTC-5, The Starmaker wrote:
> sep...@yahoo.com wrote: 
> > 
> > Please explain how Einstein's concepts of simultaneous events works in this scenario. 
> >
> > Now there is a second inertial reference frame F1. Frame F1 is moving with velocity V along the x-axis relative to F0. The velocity V is such that two events one second apart across the length of L in F0 are simultaneous in F1. At the start of this scenario when the two motors are off, observers in F1 see that the two elastic bands wrap around each other 10 times just as it is in F0. 
> > Now F1 starts each motor in F0 simultaneously as viewed in F1. In F0 these two events occur 1 second apart. The motors rotate 10 revolutions per second. Since one motor rotates 10 times before the other motor starts its rotation, the two bands as seen in F0 unwind their intertwining of 10 rotations that the elastic bands had when the motors were turned off (assuming the rotation direction unwinds the elastic bands). So in F0 the two elastic bands no longer intertwine and they become parall
> > So what do observers in F1 see? Before the rotations were started, each elastic band was wrapped around each other 10 times as observed both in F0 and F1. If the rotations were started simultaneously in F1, do the F1 observers still say the two elastic bands are wrapped around each other 10 times? If not, how do observers in F1 explain how the two elastic bands are now not wrapped around each other 10 times as they were when the rotations were started simultaneously in F1? 
> > Thanks, 
> > David Seppala 
> > Bastrop TX
> "elastic bands"???? wat is dat, british talk? You mean 'rubber bands'! Only queers say elastic bands...you ain't no steer from texsas. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, 
> to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge 
> the unchallengeable.
"Elastic" is a physics term meaning that a material can return to its original form and size after forces causing the deformation are removed.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#592684

On Fri, 30 Sep 2022 16:35:42 -0700 (PDT), "sepp623@yahoo.com"
<sepp623@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 1:15:28 AM UTC-5, The Starmaker wrote:
>> sep...@yahoo.com wrote: 
>> > 
>> > Please explain how Einstein's concepts of simultaneous events works in this scenario. 
>> >
>> > Now there is a second inertial reference frame F1. Frame F1 is moving with velocity V along the x-axis relative to F0. The velocity V is such that two events one second apart across the length of L in F0 are simultaneous in F1. At the start of this scenario when the two motors are off, observers in F1 see that the two elastic bands wrap around each other 10 times just as it is in F0. 
>> > Now F1 starts each motor in F0 simultaneously as viewed in F1. In F0 these two events occur 1 second apart. The motors rotate 10 revolutions per second. Since one motor rotates 10 times before the other motor starts its rotation, the two bands as seen in F0 unwind their intertwining of 10 rotations that the elastic bands had when the motors were turned off (assuming the rotation direction unwinds the elastic bands). So in F0 the two elastic bands no longer intertwine and they become parall
>> > So what do observers in F1 see? Before the rotations were started, each elastic band was wrapped around each other 10 times as observed both in F0 and F1. If the rotations were started simultaneously in F1, do the F1 observers still say the two elastic bands are wrapped around each other 10 times? If not, how do observers in F1 explain how the two elastic bands are now not wrapped around each other 10 times as they were when the rotations were started simultaneously in F1? 
>> > Thanks, 
>> > David Seppala 
>> > Bastrop TX
>> "elastic bands"???? wat is dat, british talk? You mean 'rubber bands'! Only queers say elastic bands...you ain't no steer from texsas. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, 
>> to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge 
>> the unchallengeable.
>"Elastic" is a physics term meaning that a material can return to its original form and size after forces causing the deformation are removed.


In other words...the rubber band snaps back.

Definition of elastic band British. : a thin, flexible loop that is
made of rubber and used to hold things together : rubber band.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=define+elastic+bands


Elastic bands have NOTHING to do with physics. It's two words,
..."elastic bands"


Definition of elastic band... British. wankers. talk like they got a
spoon in the mouth.



You cannot remove the word "band" and then call it Physics.


dats stupid

--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
 to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, and challenge
 the unchallengeable.

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Back to top | Article view | sci.physics.relativity

csiph-web