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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #583317 > unrolled thread

General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent

Started bypatdolan <patdolan@comcast.net>
First post2022-04-18 19:05 -0700
Last post2022-04-18 20:43 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 108 — 12 participants

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Contents

  General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-18 19:05 -0700
    Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2022-04-19 12:40 +1000
      Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-18 19:45 -0700
        Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-04-18 20:54 -0700
          Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-18 21:02 -0700
          Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-18 21:38 -0700
            Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-18 22:23 -0700
              Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Aldo <aldo.mayme.11084@cap.edu.mx> - 2022-04-18 22:37 -0700
                Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-18 22:41 -0700
              Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-19 02:31 -0700
            Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-04-19 00:16 -0700
              Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-19 02:37 -0700
                Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-04-19 15:15 -0700
        Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-18 21:38 -0700
          Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-18 22:34 -0700
            Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-18 22:38 -0700
            Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-19 02:04 -0400
              Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-18 23:20 -0700
                Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-19 11:10 -0400
                  Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-19 08:28 -0700
                  Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-19 09:09 -0700
                    Cretin Pat Dolan eats shit for breakfast "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-04-19 10:08 -0700
                      Re: Cretin Pat Dolan eats shit for breakfast patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-19 12:53 -0700
                        Re: Cretin Pat Dolan eats shit for breakfast "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-04-19 12:58 -0700
                          Re: Cretin Pat Dolan eats shit for breakfast patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-19 13:07 -0700
                            Re: Cretin Pat Dolan eats shit for breakfast "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-04-19 13:29 -0700
                              Re: Cretin Pat Dolan eats shit for breakfast patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-19 13:37 -0700
                                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan eats shit for breakfast "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-04-19 14:14 -0700
                    Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-19 16:35 -0400
                      Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-19 13:40 -0700
                        Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Rob Fujimoto <sbau@btnzbnct.yb> - 2022-04-19 20:45 +0000
                        Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-19 16:46 -0400
                          Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-19 13:47 -0700
                            Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Rob Fujimoto <sbau@btnzbnct.yb> - 2022-04-19 21:02 +0000
                            Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-19 18:42 -0400
                              Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-19 16:48 -0700
                                Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Aldo <aldo.mayme.11084@cap.edu.mx> - 2022-04-19 17:20 -0700
                                  Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-19 17:43 -0700
                                    Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 10:36 +0000
                                      Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 03:59 -0700
                                      Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-20 09:25 -0700
                                        Piece of shit Pat Dolan showcases his ignorance "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 09:37 -0700
                                          Re: Piece of shit Pat Dolan showcases his ignorance patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-20 09:44 -0700
                                            Re: Piece of shit Pat Dolan showcases his ignorance "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 09:48 -0700
                                              Re: Piece of shit Pat Dolan showcases his ignorance patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-20 09:59 -0700
                                                Re: Piece of shit Pat Dolan showcases his ignorance "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 10:18 -0700
                                                  Re: Piece of shit Pat Dolan showcases his ignorance patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-20 10:25 -0700
                                                    Re: Piece of shit Pat Dolan showcases his ignorance "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 10:28 -0700
                                                      Re: Piece of shit Pat Dolan showcases his ignorance patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-20 10:49 -0700
                                                        Re: Piece of shit Pat Dolan showcases his ignorance "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 10:58 -0700
                                                          Re: Piece of shit Pat Dolan showcases his ignorance patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-20 11:18 -0700
                                                            Re: Piece of shit Pat Dolan keeps on lying "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 11:27 -0700
                                                        Re: Piece of shit Pat Dolan showcases his ignorance Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 18:12 +0000
                                                    Re: Piece of shit Pat Dolan showcases his ignorance Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 18:12 +0000
                                            Re: Piece of shit Pat Dolan showcases his ignorance Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 18:12 +0000
                                    Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Aldo <aldo.mayme.11084@cap.edu.mx> - 2022-04-20 11:06 -0700
                                      Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 11:12 -0700
                                        Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 18:26 +0000
                                          Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-20 11:50 -0700
                                            Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan gets to eat it "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 12:03 -0700
                                              Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan gets to eat it patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-20 12:12 -0700
                                                Re: Lying piece of shit Pat Dolan gets to eat it "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 12:15 -0700
                                            Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 19:09 +0000
                                      Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-20 11:15 -0700
                                        Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Aldo <aldo.mayme.11084@cap.edu.mx> - 2022-04-20 11:26 -0700
                                        Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Aldo <aldo.mayme.11084@cap.edu.mx> - 2022-04-20 11:27 -0700
                                          Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-20 11:46 -0700
                                          Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 18:49 +0000
                                            Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-20 11:53 -0700
                                              Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 19:09 +0000
                                                Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 12:52 -0700
                                              Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Aldo <aldo.mayme.11084@cap.edu.mx> - 2022-04-20 12:16 -0700
                                                Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-20 12:22 -0700
                                                  Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-20 12:31 -0700
                                                    Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 20:31 +0000
                                                      Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 19:28 -0700
                                                        Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-21 00:40 -0400
                                                  Cretin Pat Dolan keeps eating shit. "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 14:05 -0700
                                                    Re: Cretin Pat Dolan keeps eating shit. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-20 15:46 -0700
                                                      Re: Cretin Pat Dolan keeps eating shit. "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 16:34 -0700
                                                        Re: Cretin Pat Dolan keeps eating shit. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-20 16:42 -0700
                                                          Re: Cretin Pat Dolan keeps eating shit. "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 17:04 -0700
                                                            Re: Cretin Pat Dolan keeps eating shit. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-20 18:14 -0700
                                                              Re: Cretin Pat Dolan keeps eating shit. "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 18:20 -0700
                                                  Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Aldo <aldo.mayme.11084@cap.edu.mx> - 2022-04-20 21:52 -0700
                                                    Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-21 01:51 -0700
                                                      Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-21 12:36 +0000
                                Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-04-20 00:49 +0000
                                Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-19 23:44 -0400
                                  Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-19 23:21 -0700
                            Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Aldo <aldo.mayme.11084@cap.edu.mx> - 2022-04-19 16:22 -0700
              Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-04-18 23:44 -0700
                Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-19 10:38 -0400
      Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-04-20 23:20 +0000
        Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-20 16:47 -0700
          Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-04-21 00:40 +0000
            Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-04-20 19:31 -0700
              Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-21 02:00 -0700
                Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-04-21 07:27 -0700
              Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-04-21 14:49 +0000
          Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-21 00:50 +0000
        Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-21 00:50 +0000
          Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-04-21 01:12 +0000
    Piece of shit Pad Dolan repeats the same imbecility "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-04-18 19:59 -0700
      Re: Piece of shit Pad Dolan repeats the same imbecility patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-18 20:55 -0700
        Re: Piece of shit Pad Dolan repeats the same imbecility Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-04-18 22:08 -0700
    Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent Aldo <aldo.mayme.11084@cap.edu.mx> - 2022-04-18 20:19 -0700
      Re: General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-04-18 20:43 -0700

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#583317 — General and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent

Frompatdolan <patdolan@comcast.net>
Date2022-04-18 19:05 -0700
SubjectGeneral and Special Relativity are Irreconcilably Inconsistent
Message-ID<e0ef2093-6bb7-4b76-85ea-ce2e97642682n@googlegroups.com>
General Relativity and Solar System--
We begin our observation of the distant solar system from flat spacetime.  We are located on the line that is collinear with the sun’s axis of rotation.  We are at rest wrt to the solar system.  From this vantage point we note that according to our wrist watches it takes 365.25 days for the earth to complete one revolution around the sun.  No surprise there.  This is exactly what General Relativity predicts.  The earth will execute one stable turn of a helix at an average distance of one AU in the space dimension, for every 31542115 seconds in the time dimension.  General Relativity assures us that curved spacetime in the vicinity of the sun is the sole cause of this behavior.  

Special Relativity and the Solar System--
Now we acquire a velocity of .867c relative to the solar system, directed along the line that is collinear with the sun’s axis of rotation.  From our new viewing situation we see that the earth’s path through the solar system’s curves spacetime remains identical to the previous case because the earth’s path remains undistorted by Lorentz contraction.  But due to Lorentz time dilation the earth now takes 730.5 days to complete the identical path through the identically curved spacetime.

To summarize, we observe the earth’s velocity has been halved by Special Relativity while traveling through identically curved spacetime due to General Relativity.  According to General Relativity, this state of affairs is no longer stable.  The solar system’s spacetime will rapidly suck the earth down to  fiery doom.  The Christoffels do not lie.  So either the mere act of someone in a different FoR observing the solar system will doom it, or Relativity is necessarily a many-worlds theory.

[This should make them ponder things for quite some time, Richard(s).  Sure, that windy birds Bodkin will type something about trees and sports cars tout de sweet.  But his words will be his typical obfuscations for his utter inability to respond in an effective manner.  Tom, Dirk and Sylvia won’t even dare to touch this.  I might be interested in what Townes Olson has to type, however.]

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#583318

FromSylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
Date2022-04-19 12:40 +1000
Message-ID<jc6lonFn7vU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#583317
On 19-Apr-22 12:05 pm, patdolan wrote:
> General Relativity and Solar System--
> We begin our observation of the distant solar system from flat spacetime.  We are located on the line that is collinear with the sun’s axis of rotation.  We are at rest wrt to the solar system.  From this vantage point we note that according to our wrist watches it takes 365.25 days for the earth to complete one revolution around the sun.  No surprise there.  This is exactly what General Relativity predicts.  The earth will execute one stable turn of a helix at an average distance of one AU in the space dimension, for every 31542115 seconds in the time dimension.  General Relativity assures us that curved spacetime in the vicinity of the sun is the sole cause of this behavior.
> 
> Special Relativity and the Solar System--
> Now we acquire a velocity of .867c relative to the solar system, directed along the line that is collinear with the sun’s axis of rotation.  From our new viewing situation we see that the earth’s path through the solar system’s curves spacetime remains identical to the previous case because the earth’s path remains undistorted by Lorentz contraction.  But due to Lorentz time dilation the earth now takes 730.5 days to complete the identical path through the identically curved spacetime.
> 
> To summarize, we observe the earth’s velocity has been halved by Special Relativity while traveling through identically curved spacetime due to General Relativity.  According to General Relativity, this state of affairs is no longer stable.  The solar system’s spacetime will rapidly suck the earth down to  fiery doom.  The Christoffels do not lie.  So either the mere act of someone in a different FoR observing the solar system will doom it, or Relativity is necessarily a many-worlds theory.
> 
> [This should make them ponder things for quite some time, Richard(s).  Sure, that windy birds Bodkin will type something about trees and sports cars tout de sweet.  But his words will be his typical obfuscations for his utter inability to respond in an effective manner.  Tom, Dirk and Sylvia won’t even dare to touch this.  I might be interested in what Townes Olson has to type, however.]

Special Relativity does not generally apply in the presence of gravity, 
so the above is nothing new.

Sylvia.

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#583319

Frompatdolan <patdolan@comcast.net>
Date2022-04-18 19:45 -0700
Message-ID<a47f83cf-5801-405b-906d-abce305c031en@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#583318
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 7:40:26 PM UTC-7, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 19-Apr-22 12:05 pm, patdolan wrote: 
> > General Relativity and Solar System-- 
> > We begin our observation of the distant solar system from flat spacetime. We are located on the line that is collinear with the sun’s axis of rotation. We are at rest wrt to the solar system. From this vantage point we note that according to our wrist watches it takes 365.25 days for the earth to complete one revolution around the sun. No surprise there. This is exactly what General Relativity predicts. The earth will execute one stable turn of a helix at an average distance of one AU in the space dimension, for every 31542115 seconds in the time dimension. General Relativity assures us that curved spacetime in the vicinity of the sun is the sole cause of this behavior. 
> > 
> > Special Relativity and the Solar System-- 
> > Now we acquire a velocity of .867c relative to the solar system, directed along the line that is collinear with the sun’s axis of rotation. From our new viewing situation we see that the earth’s path through the solar system’s curves spacetime remains identical to the previous case because the earth’s path remains undistorted by Lorentz contraction. But due to Lorentz time dilation the earth now takes 730.5 days to complete the identical path through the identically curved spacetime. 
> > 
> > To summarize, we observe the earth’s velocity has been halved by Special Relativity while traveling through identically curved spacetime due to General Relativity. According to General Relativity, this state of affairs is no longer stable. The solar system’s spacetime will rapidly suck the earth down to fiery doom. The Christoffels do not lie. So either the mere act of someone in a different FoR observing the solar system will doom it, or Relativity is necessarily a many-worlds theory. 
> > 
> > [This should make them ponder things for quite some time, Richard(s). Sure, that windy birds Bodkin will type something about trees and sports cars tout de sweet. But his words will be his typical obfuscations for his utter inability to respond in an effective manner. Tom, Dirk and Sylvia won’t even dare to touch this. I might be interested in what Townes Olson has to type, however.]
> Special Relativity does not generally apply in the presence of gravity, 
> so the above is nothing new. 
> 
> Sylvia.
I'm shocked Sylvia, shocked!  Bodkin will tell you there is no such thing as gravity.  So will Albert.  There is only spacetime and curved spacetime.  I'm interested if you disagree.

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#583323

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2022-04-18 20:54 -0700
Message-ID<625E3267.3710@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#583319
patdolan wrote:
> 
> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 7:40:26 PM UTC-7, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > On 19-Apr-22 12:05 pm, patdolan wrote:
> > > General Relativity and Solar System--
> 
> > >
> > > Special Relativity and the Solar System--
> > > Now we acquire a velocity of .867c relative to the solar system, directed along the line that is collinear with the sun’s axis of rotation. From our new viewing situation we see that the earth’s path through the solar system’s curves spacetime remains identical to the previous case because the earth’s path remains undistorted by Lorentz contraction. But due to Lorentz time dilation the earth now takes 730.5 days to complete the identical path through the identically curved spacetime.
> > >
> > > To summarize, we observe the earth’s velocity has been halved by Special Relativity while traveling through identically curved spacetime due to General Relativity. According to General Relativity, this state of affairs is no longer stable. The solar system’s spacetime will rapidly suck the earth down to fiery doom. The Christoffels do not lie. So either the mere act of someone in a different FoR observing the solar system will doom it, or Relativity is necessarily a many-worlds theory.
> > >
> > > [This should make them ponder things for quite some time, Richard(s). Sure, that windy birds Bodkin will type something about trees and sports cars tout de sweet. But his words will be his typical obfuscations for his utter inability to respond in an effective manner. Tom, Dirk and Sylvia won’t even dare to touch this. I might be interested in what Townes Olson has to type, however.]
> > Special Relativity does not generally apply in the presence of gravity,
> > so the above is nothing new.
> >
> > Sylvia.
> I'm shocked Sylvia, shocked!  Bodkin will tell you there is no such thing as gravity.  So will Albert.  There is only spacetime and curved spacetime.  I'm interested if you disagree.

Spacetime is just a con.

A made up word that has no real meaning or reality.

Since Time is an illusion..
the only way to make it real is
to 'attach' the word "space" to it
to give Time the illusion of Reality.

Spacetime.

There is no time.

Just space.

If Time flows, why haven't they divided up the ...flow?

What time is it? three flows after one.


-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
 to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
and challenge
 the unchallengeable.

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#583325

Frompatdolan <patdolan@comcast.net>
Date2022-04-18 21:02 -0700
Message-ID<88085137-7b34-458a-b5af-64f5a5318ba9n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#583323
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 8:54:13 PM UTC-7, The Starmaker wrote:
> patdolan wrote: 
> > 
> > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 7:40:26 PM UTC-7, Sylvia Else wrote: 
> > > On 19-Apr-22 12:05 pm, patdolan wrote: 
> > > > General Relativity and Solar System-- 
> > 
> > > >
> > > > Special Relativity and the Solar System-- 
> > > > Now we acquire a velocity of .867c relative to the solar system, directed along the line that is collinear with the sun’s axis of rotation. From our new viewing situation we see that the earth’s path through the solar system’s curves spacetime remains identical to the previous case because the earth’s path remains undistorted by Lorentz contraction. But due to Lorentz time dilation the earth now takes 730.5 days to complete the identical path through the identically curved spacetime. 
> > > > 
> > > > To summarize, we observe the earth’s velocity has been halved by Special Relativity while traveling through identically curved spacetime due to General Relativity. According to General Relativity, this state of affairs is no longer stable. The solar system’s spacetime will rapidly suck the earth down to fiery doom. The Christoffels do not lie. So either the mere act of someone in a different FoR observing the solar system will doom it, or Relativity is necessarily a many-worlds theory. 
> > > > 
> > > > [This should make them ponder things for quite some time, Richard(s). Sure, that windy birds Bodkin will type something about trees and sports cars tout de sweet. But his words will be his typical obfuscations for his utter inability to respond in an effective manner. Tom, Dirk and Sylvia won’t even dare to touch this. I might be interested in what Townes Olson has to type, however.] 
> > > Special Relativity does not generally apply in the presence of gravity, 
> > > so the above is nothing new. 
> > > 
> > > Sylvia. 
> > I'm shocked Sylvia, shocked! Bodkin will tell you there is no such thing as gravity. So will Albert. There is only spacetime and curved spacetime. I'm interested if you disagree.
> Spacetime is just a con. 
Amen.

Am I mistaken in the recollection that Minkowski invented it.  At first Einstein did't cotton to it.  But later embraced it as a useful medium for his general relativity.
> 
> A made up word that has no real meaning or reality. 
> 
> Since Time is an illusion.. 
> the only way to make it real is 
> to 'attach' the word "space" to it 
> to give Time the illusion of Reality. 
> 
> Spacetime. 
> 
> There is no time. 
> 
> Just space. 
> 
> If Time flows, why haven't they divided up the ...flow? 
> 
> What time is it? three flows after one. 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, 
> to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, 
> and challenge 
> the unchallengeable.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#583332

FromJanPB <filmart@gmail.com>
Date2022-04-18 21:38 -0700
Message-ID<0f8b1e84-d31c-4eb1-9b7f-395636b2554an@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#583323
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 8:54:13 PM UTC-7, The Starmaker wrote:
> patdolan wrote: 
> > 
> > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 7:40:26 PM UTC-7, Sylvia Else wrote: 
> > > On 19-Apr-22 12:05 pm, patdolan wrote: 
> > > > General Relativity and Solar System-- 
> > 
> > > >
> > > > Special Relativity and the Solar System-- 
> > > > Now we acquire a velocity of .867c relative to the solar system, directed along the line that is collinear with the sun’s axis of rotation. From our new viewing situation we see that the earth’s path through the solar system’s curves spacetime remains identical to the previous case because the earth’s path remains undistorted by Lorentz contraction. But due to Lorentz time dilation the earth now takes 730.5 days to complete the identical path through the identically curved spacetime. 
> > > > 
> > > > To summarize, we observe the earth’s velocity has been halved by Special Relativity while traveling through identically curved spacetime due to General Relativity. According to General Relativity, this state of affairs is no longer stable. The solar system’s spacetime will rapidly suck the earth down to fiery doom. The Christoffels do not lie. So either the mere act of someone in a different FoR observing the solar system will doom it, or Relativity is necessarily a many-worlds theory. 
> > > > 
> > > > [This should make them ponder things for quite some time, Richard(s). Sure, that windy birds Bodkin will type something about trees and sports cars tout de sweet. But his words will be his typical obfuscations for his utter inability to respond in an effective manner. Tom, Dirk and Sylvia won’t even dare to touch this. I might be interested in what Townes Olson has to type, however.] 
> > > Special Relativity does not generally apply in the presence of gravity, 
> > > so the above is nothing new. 
> > > 
> > > Sylvia. 
> > I'm shocked Sylvia, shocked! Bodkin will tell you there is no such thing as gravity. So will Albert. There is only spacetime and curved spacetime. I'm interested if you disagree.
> Spacetime is just a con. 
> 
> A made up word that has no real meaning or reality. 

Not even wrong. Gobbledygook.

--
Jan

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#583334

Frompatdolan <patdolan@comcast.net>
Date2022-04-18 22:23 -0700
Message-ID<b1be4f68-b963-400b-bf86-bdfcefb7b797n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#583332
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 9:38:54 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 8:54:13 PM UTC-7, The Starmaker wrote:
> > patdolan wrote: 
> > > 
> > > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 7:40:26 PM UTC-7, Sylvia Else wrote: 
> > > > On 19-Apr-22 12:05 pm, patdolan wrote: 
> > > > > General Relativity and Solar System-- 
> > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Special Relativity and the Solar System-- 
> > > > > Now we acquire a velocity of .867c relative to the solar system, directed along the line that is collinear with the sun’s axis of rotation. From our new viewing situation we see that the earth’s path through the solar system’s curves spacetime remains identical to the previous case because the earth’s path remains undistorted by Lorentz contraction. But due to Lorentz time dilation the earth now takes 730.5 days to complete the identical path through the identically curved spacetime. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > To summarize, we observe the earth’s velocity has been halved by Special Relativity while traveling through identically curved spacetime due to General Relativity. According to General Relativity, this state of affairs is no longer stable. The solar system’s spacetime will rapidly suck the earth down to fiery doom. The Christoffels do not lie. So either the mere act of someone in a different FoR observing the solar system will doom it, or Relativity is necessarily a many-worlds theory. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > [This should make them ponder things for quite some time, Richard(s). Sure, that windy birds Bodkin will type something about trees and sports cars tout de sweet. But his words will be his typical obfuscations for his utter inability to respond in an effective manner. Tom, Dirk and Sylvia won’t even dare to touch this. I might be interested in what Townes Olson has to type, however.] 
> > > > Special Relativity does not generally apply in the presence of gravity, 
> > > > so the above is nothing new. 
> > > > 
> > > > Sylvia. 
> > > I'm shocked Sylvia, shocked! Bodkin will tell you there is no such thing as gravity. So will Albert. There is only spacetime and curved spacetime. I'm interested if you disagree. 
> > Spacetime is just a con. 
> > 
> > A made up word that has no real meaning or reality.
> Not even wrong. Gobbledygook. 

Jan!  Good to hear from you again.  I was just now thinking about you.  I developed the first version of this argument under fire...what...10 years ago?...when I was battling you and euroHenry.  You stalked off, much as you did just now.  euroHenry never recovered, apparently.   Ah well, Aldo will probably end up in the same place.  Say hello to him Aldo.

Jan, I guess this means I will have to put you in my memoirs--maybe even have to mention you in my Nobel lecture--as the proximate cause to the argument that finally toppled the relativity twins, special and general.


> 
> -- 
> Jan

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#583336

FromAldo <aldo.mayme.11084@cap.edu.mx>
Date2022-04-18 22:37 -0700
Message-ID<e72b9ef3-e90e-4822-8cfc-89c944d69e72n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#583334
El martes, 19 de abril de 2022 a las 0:23:31 UTC-5, patdolan escribió:
> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 9:38:54 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: 
> > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 8:54:13 PM UTC-7, The Starmaker wrote: 
> > > patdolan wrote: 
> > > > 
> > > > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 7:40:26 PM UTC-7, Sylvia Else wrote: 
> > > > > On 19-Apr-22 12:05 pm, patdolan wrote: 
> > > > > > General Relativity and Solar System-- 
> > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Special Relativity and the Solar System-- 
> > > > > > Now we acquire a velocity of .867c relative to the solar system, directed along the line that is collinear with the sun’s axis of rotation. From our new viewing situation we see that the earth’s path through the solar system’s curves spacetime remains identical to the previous case because the earth’s path remains undistorted by Lorentz contraction. But due to Lorentz time dilation the earth now takes 730.5 days to complete the identical path through the identically curved spacetime. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > To summarize, we observe the earth’s velocity has been halved by Special Relativity while traveling through identically curved spacetime due to General Relativity. According to General Relativity, this state of affairs is no longer stable. The solar system’s spacetime will rapidly suck the earth down to fiery doom. The Christoffels do not lie. So either the mere act of someone in a different FoR observing the solar system will doom it, or Relativity is necessarily a many-worlds theory. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > [This should make them ponder things for quite some time, Richard(s). Sure, that windy birds Bodkin will type something about trees and sports cars tout de sweet. But his words will be his typical obfuscations for his utter inability to respond in an effective manner. Tom, Dirk and Sylvia won’t even dare to touch this. I might be interested in what Townes Olson has to type, however.] 
> > > > > Special Relativity does not generally apply in the presence of gravity, 
> > > > > so the above is nothing new. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Sylvia. 
> > > > I'm shocked Sylvia, shocked! Bodkin will tell you there is no such thing as gravity. So will Albert. There is only spacetime and curved spacetime. I'm interested if you disagree. 
> > > Spacetime is just a con. 
> > > 
> > > A made up word that has no real meaning or reality. 
> > Not even wrong. Gobbledygook.
> Jan! Good to hear from you again. I was just now thinking about you. I developed the first version of this argument under fire...what...10 years ago?...when I was battling you and euroHenry. You stalked off, much as you did just now. euroHenry never recovered, apparently. Ah well, Aldo will probably end up in the same place. Say hello to him Aldo. 
> 
> Jan, I guess this means I will have to put you in my memoirs--maybe even have to mention you in my Nobel lecture--as the proximate cause to the argument that finally toppled the relativity twins, special and general. 
> 
> 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Jan
OK, idiot. I will explain you this only *ONCE*. In special relativity, physical laws use partial derivatives. In general relativity, physical laws use covariant derivatives, which trivially reduce to partial derivatives when the Christoffel symbols are zero. That's the relationship. Understand, you fucking piece of shit?
https://mathworld.wolfram.com/CovariantDerivative.html

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#583338

Frompatdolan <patdolan@comcast.net>
Date2022-04-18 22:41 -0700
Message-ID<5eeee8c6-acde-433b-a65e-47d9fe17f1cen@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#583336
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 10:37:13 PM UTC-7, Aldo wrote:
> El martes, 19 de abril de 2022 a las 0:23:31 UTC-5, patdolan escribió: 
> > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 9:38:54 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: 
> > > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 8:54:13 PM UTC-7, The Starmaker wrote: 
> > > > patdolan wrote: 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 7:40:26 PM UTC-7, Sylvia Else wrote: 
> > > > > > On 19-Apr-22 12:05 pm, patdolan wrote: 
> > > > > > > General Relativity and Solar System-- 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Special Relativity and the Solar System-- 
> > > > > > > Now we acquire a velocity of .867c relative to the solar system, directed along the line that is collinear with the sun’s axis of rotation. From our new viewing situation we see that the earth’s path through the solar system’s curves spacetime remains identical to the previous case because the earth’s path remains undistorted by Lorentz contraction. But due to Lorentz time dilation the earth now takes 730.5 days to complete the identical path through the identically curved spacetime. 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > To summarize, we observe the earth’s velocity has been halved by Special Relativity while traveling through identically curved spacetime due to General Relativity. According to General Relativity, this state of affairs is no longer stable. The solar system’s spacetime will rapidly suck the earth down to fiery doom. The Christoffels do not lie. So either the mere act of someone in a different FoR observing the solar system will doom it, or Relativity is necessarily a many-worlds theory. 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > [This should make them ponder things for quite some time, Richard(s). Sure, that windy birds Bodkin will type something about trees and sports cars tout de sweet. But his words will be his typical obfuscations for his utter inability to respond in an effective manner. Tom, Dirk and Sylvia won’t even dare to touch this. I might be interested in what Townes Olson has to type, however.] 
> > > > > > Special Relativity does not generally apply in the presence of gravity, 
> > > > > > so the above is nothing new. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Sylvia. 
> > > > > I'm shocked Sylvia, shocked! Bodkin will tell you there is no such thing as gravity. So will Albert. There is only spacetime and curved spacetime. I'm interested if you disagree. 
> > > > Spacetime is just a con. 
> > > > 
> > > > A made up word that has no real meaning or reality. 
> > > Not even wrong. Gobbledygook. 
> > Jan! Good to hear from you again. I was just now thinking about you. I developed the first version of this argument under fire...what...10 years ago?...when I was battling you and euroHenry. You stalked off, much as you did just now. euroHenry never recovered, apparently. Ah well, Aldo will probably end up in the same place. Say hello to him Aldo. 
> > 
> > Jan, I guess this means I will have to put you in my memoirs--maybe even have to mention you in my Nobel lecture--as the proximate cause to the argument that finally toppled the relativity twins, special and general. 
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Jan
> OK, idiot. I will explain you this only *ONCE*. In special relativity, physical laws use partial derivatives. In general relativity, physical laws use covariant derivatives, which trivially reduce to partial derivatives when the Christoffel symbols are zero. That's the relationship. Understand, you fucking piece of shit? 
> https://mathworld.wolfram.com/CovariantDerivative.html

Temper, temper Aldo.  First, clean up that bowl of word salad you just overturned onto the floor.  Second, try to get some rest.  Third, have a slow read-through of Paul's paper in the morning.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#583346

FromJanPB <filmart@gmail.com>
Date2022-04-19 02:31 -0700
Message-ID<5ec741e9-ea5f-45f5-bbc6-e89bf3954e24n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#583334
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 10:23:31 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 9:38:54 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: 
> > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 8:54:13 PM UTC-7, The Starmaker wrote: 
> > > patdolan wrote: 
> > > > 
> > > > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 7:40:26 PM UTC-7, Sylvia Else wrote: 
> > > > > On 19-Apr-22 12:05 pm, patdolan wrote: 
> > > > > > General Relativity and Solar System-- 
> > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Special Relativity and the Solar System-- 
> > > > > > Now we acquire a velocity of .867c relative to the solar system, directed along the line that is collinear with the sun’s axis of rotation. From our new viewing situation we see that the earth’s path through the solar system’s curves spacetime remains identical to the previous case because the earth’s path remains undistorted by Lorentz contraction. But due to Lorentz time dilation the earth now takes 730.5 days to complete the identical path through the identically curved spacetime. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > To summarize, we observe the earth’s velocity has been halved by Special Relativity while traveling through identically curved spacetime due to General Relativity. According to General Relativity, this state of affairs is no longer stable. The solar system’s spacetime will rapidly suck the earth down to fiery doom. The Christoffels do not lie. So either the mere act of someone in a different FoR observing the solar system will doom it, or Relativity is necessarily a many-worlds theory. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > [This should make them ponder things for quite some time, Richard(s). Sure, that windy birds Bodkin will type something about trees and sports cars tout de sweet. But his words will be his typical obfuscations for his utter inability to respond in an effective manner. Tom, Dirk and Sylvia won’t even dare to touch this. I might be interested in what Townes Olson has to type, however.] 
> > > > > Special Relativity does not generally apply in the presence of gravity, 
> > > > > so the above is nothing new. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Sylvia. 
> > > > I'm shocked Sylvia, shocked! Bodkin will tell you there is no such thing as gravity. So will Albert. There is only spacetime and curved spacetime. I'm interested if you disagree. 
> > > Spacetime is just a con. 
> > > 
> > > A made up word that has no real meaning or reality. 
> > Not even wrong. Gobbledygook.
> Jan! Good to hear from you again. I was just now thinking about you. I developed the first version of this argument under fire...what...10 years ago?...when I was battling you and euroHenry. You stalked off, much as you did just now. euroHenry never recovered, apparently. Ah well, Aldo will probably end up in the same place. Say hello to him Aldo. 
> 
> Jan, I guess this means I will have to put you in my memoirs--maybe even have to mention you in my Nobel lecture--as the proximate cause to the argument that finally toppled the relativity twins, special and general. 

Seems one standard crank trait is childish fantasising :-)

--
Jan

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#583343

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2022-04-19 00:16 -0700
Message-ID<625E61CC.DA8@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#583332
JanPB wrote:
> 
> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 8:54:13 PM UTC-7, The Starmaker wrote:
> > patdolan wrote:
> > >
> > > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 7:40:26 PM UTC-7, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > > > On 19-Apr-22 12:05 pm, patdolan wrote:
> > > > > General Relativity and Solar System--
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Special Relativity and the Solar System--
> > > > > Now we acquire a velocity of .867c relative to the solar system, directed along the line that is collinear with the sun’s axis of rotation. From our new viewing situation we see that the earth’s path through the solar system’s curves spacetime remains identical to the previous case because the earth’s path remains undistorted by Lorentz contraction. But due to Lorentz time dilation the earth now takes 730.5 days to complete the identical path through the identically curved spacet
> > > > >
> > > > > To summarize, we observe the earth’s velocity has been halved by Special Relativity while traveling through identically curved spacetime due to General Relativity. According to General Relativity, this state of affairs is no longer stable. The solar system’s spacetime will rapidly suck the earth down to fiery doom. The Christoffels do not lie. So either the mere act of someone in a different FoR observing the solar system will doom it, or Relativity is necessarily a many-worlds theor
> > > > >
> > > > > [This should make them ponder things for quite some time, Richard(s). Sure, that windy birds Bodkin will type something about trees and sports cars tout de sweet. But his words will be his typical obfuscations for his utter inability to respond in an effective manner. Tom, Dirk and Sylvia won’t even dare to touch this. I might be interested in what Townes Olson has to type, however.]
> > > > Special Relativity does not generally apply in the presence of gravity,
> > > > so the above is nothing new.
> > > >
> > > > Sylvia.
> > > I'm shocked Sylvia, shocked! Bodkin will tell you there is no such thing as gravity. So will Albert. There is only spacetime and curved spacetime. I'm interested if you disagree.
> > Spacetime is just a con.
> >
> > A made up word that has no real meaning or reality.
> 
> Not even wrong. Gobbledygook.
> 
> --
> Jan

"Not even wrong. Gobbledygook." Those words used to mean something, but now it means ...nothing.

The echoes are gone in the hall...


-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
 to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge
 the unchallengeable.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#583347

FromJanPB <filmart@gmail.com>
Date2022-04-19 02:37 -0700
Message-ID<c5992d6e-13fe-4944-baf0-3ba6574bf6c6n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#583343
On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 12:16:25 AM UTC-7, The Starmaker wrote:
> JanPB wrote: 
> > 
> > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 8:54:13 PM UTC-7, The Starmaker wrote: 
> > > patdolan wrote: 
> > > > 
> > > > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 7:40:26 PM UTC-7, Sylvia Else wrote: 
> > > > > On 19-Apr-22 12:05 pm, patdolan wrote: 
> > > > > > General Relativity and Solar System-- 
> > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Special Relativity and the Solar System-- 
> > > > > > Now we acquire a velocity of .867c relative to the solar system, directed along the line that is collinear with the sun’s axis of rotation. From our new viewing situation we see that the earth’s path through the solar system’s curves spacetime remains identical to the previous case because the earth’s path remains undistorted by Lorentz contraction. But due to Lorentz time dilation the earth now takes 730.5 days to complete the identical path through the identically curved spacet 
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To summarize, we observe the earth’s velocity has been halved by Special Relativity while traveling through identically curved spacetime due to General Relativity. According to General Relativity, this state of affairs is no longer stable. The solar system’s spacetime will rapidly suck the earth down to fiery doom. The Christoffels do not lie. So either the mere act of someone in a different FoR observing the solar system will doom it, or Relativity is necessarily a many-worlds theor 
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [This should make them ponder things for quite some time, Richard(s). Sure, that windy birds Bodkin will type something about trees and sports cars tout de sweet. But his words will be his typical obfuscations for his utter inability to respond in an effective manner. Tom, Dirk and Sylvia won’t even dare to touch this. I might be interested in what Townes Olson has to type, however.] 
> > > > > Special Relativity does not generally apply in the presence of gravity, 
> > > > > so the above is nothing new. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Sylvia. 
> > > > I'm shocked Sylvia, shocked! Bodkin will tell you there is no such thing as gravity. So will Albert. There is only spacetime and curved spacetime. I'm interested if you disagree. 
> > > Spacetime is just a con. 
> > > 
> > > A made up word that has no real meaning or reality. 
> > 
> > Not even wrong. Gobbledygook. 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Jan
> "Not even wrong. Gobbledygook." Those words used to mean something, but now it means ...nothing. 

It just means that what you wrote was a word salad. It cannot be even termed
"wrong" because to be so labelled, the post would have to have a content.
You are confusing science with philosophy. Both have merits but they are
founded on different methodologies. You get gobbledygook when you mix them.

--
Jan

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#583414

FromThe Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date2022-04-19 15:15 -0700
Message-ID<625F347C.73E@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to#583347
JanPB wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 12:16:25 AM UTC-7, The Starmaker wrote:
> > JanPB wrote:
> > >
> > > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 8:54:13 PM UTC-7, The Starmaker wrote:
> > > > patdolan wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 7:40:26 PM UTC-7, Sylvia Else wrote:
> > > > > > On 19-Apr-22 12:05 pm, patdolan wrote:
> > > > > > > General Relativity and Solar System--
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Special Relativity and the Solar System--
> > > > > > > Now we acquire a velocity of .867c relative to the solar system, directed along the line that is collinear with the sun’s axis of rotation. From our new viewing situation we see that the earth’s path through the solar system’s curves spacetime remains identical to the previous case because the earth’s path remains undistorted by Lorentz contraction. But due to Lorentz time dilation the earth now takes 730.5 days to complete the identical path through the identically curved sp
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To summarize, we observe the earth’s velocity has been halved by Special Relativity while traveling through identically curved spacetime due to General Relativity. According to General Relativity, this state of affairs is no longer stable. The solar system’s spacetime will rapidly suck the earth down to fiery doom. The Christoffels do not lie. So either the mere act of someone in a different FoR observing the solar system will doom it, or Relativity is necessarily a many-worlds t
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [This should make them ponder things for quite some time, Richard(s). Sure, that windy birds Bodkin will type something about trees and sports cars tout de sweet. But his words will be his typical obfuscations for his utter inability to respond in an effective manner. Tom, Dirk and Sylvia won’t even dare to touch this. I might be interested in what Townes Olson has to type, however.]
> > > > > > Special Relativity does not generally apply in the presence of gravity,
> > > > > > so the above is nothing new.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sylvia.
> > > > > I'm shocked Sylvia, shocked! Bodkin will tell you there is no such thing as gravity. So will Albert. There is only spacetime and curved spacetime. I'm interested if you disagree.
> > > > Spacetime is just a con.
> > > >
> > > > A made up word that has no real meaning or reality.
> > >
> > > Not even wrong. Gobbledygook.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jan
> > "Not even wrong. Gobbledygook." Those words used to mean something, but now it means ...nothing.
> 
> It just means that what you wrote was a word salad. It cannot be even termed
> "wrong" because to be so labelled, the post would have to have a content.
> You are confusing science with philosophy. 


But, but..it is YOU who is confusing science with philosophy when you use words like..."word salad"!.



-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
 to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge
 the unchallengeable.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#583331

FromJanPB <filmart@gmail.com>
Date2022-04-18 21:38 -0700
Message-ID<95ea27f5-6282-47b4-ad23-7f4a2a1995e9n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#583319
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 7:45:58 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 7:40:26 PM UTC-7, Sylvia Else wrote: 
> > On 19-Apr-22 12:05 pm, patdolan wrote: 
> > > General Relativity and Solar System-- 
> > > We begin our observation of the distant solar system from flat spacetime. We are located on the line that is collinear with the sun’s axis of rotation. We are at rest wrt to the solar system. From this vantage point we note that according to our wrist watches it takes 365.25 days for the earth to complete one revolution around the sun. No surprise there. This is exactly what General Relativity predicts. The earth will execute one stable turn of a helix at an average distance of one AU in the space dimension, for every 31542115 seconds in the time dimension. General Relativity assures us that curved spacetime in the vicinity of the sun is the sole cause of this behavior. 
> > > 
> > > Special Relativity and the Solar System-- 
> > > Now we acquire a velocity of .867c relative to the solar system, directed along the line that is collinear with the sun’s axis of rotation. From our new viewing situation we see that the earth’s path through the solar system’s curves spacetime remains identical to the previous case because the earth’s path remains undistorted by Lorentz contraction. But due to Lorentz time dilation the earth now takes 730.5 days to complete the identical path through the identically curved spacetime. 
> > > 
> > > To summarize, we observe the earth’s velocity has been halved by Special Relativity while traveling through identically curved spacetime due to General Relativity. According to General Relativity, this state of affairs is no longer stable. The solar system’s spacetime will rapidly suck the earth down to fiery doom. The Christoffels do not lie. So either the mere act of someone in a different FoR observing the solar system will doom it, or Relativity is necessarily a many-worlds theory. 
> > > 
> > > [This should make them ponder things for quite some time, Richard(s). Sure, that windy birds Bodkin will type something about trees and sports cars tout de sweet. But his words will be his typical obfuscations for his utter inability to respond in an effective manner. Tom, Dirk and Sylvia won’t even dare to touch this. I might be interested in what Townes Olson has to type, however.] 
> > Special Relativity does not generally apply in the presence of gravity, 
> > so the above is nothing new. 
> > 
> > Sylvia.
> I'm shocked Sylvia, shocked! Bodkin will tell you there is no such thing as gravity. So will Albert. There is only spacetime and curved spacetime. I'm interested if you disagree.

This doesn't change Sylvia's point. 

--
Jan

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#583335

Frompatdolan <patdolan@comcast.net>
Date2022-04-18 22:34 -0700
Message-ID<47f3b778-946c-458b-b7d6-d01c58910214n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#583331
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 9:38:26 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote:
> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 7:45:58 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote: 
> > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 7:40:26 PM UTC-7, Sylvia Else wrote: 
> > > On 19-Apr-22 12:05 pm, patdolan wrote: 
> > > > General Relativity and Solar System-- 
> > > > We begin our observation of the distant solar system from flat spacetime. We are located on the line that is collinear with the sun’s axis of rotation. We are at rest wrt to the solar system. From this vantage point we note that according to our wrist watches it takes 365.25 days for the earth to complete one revolution around the sun. No surprise there. This is exactly what General Relativity predicts. The earth will execute one stable turn of a helix at an average distance of one AU in the space dimension, for every 31542115 seconds in the time dimension. General Relativity assures us that curved spacetime in the vicinity of the sun is the sole cause of this behavior. 
> > > > 
> > > > Special Relativity and the Solar System-- 
> > > > Now we acquire a velocity of .867c relative to the solar system, directed along the line that is collinear with the sun’s axis of rotation. From our new viewing situation we see that the earth’s path through the solar system’s curves spacetime remains identical to the previous case because the earth’s path remains undistorted by Lorentz contraction. But due to Lorentz time dilation the earth now takes 730.5 days to complete the identical path through the identically curved spacetime. 
> > > > 
> > > > To summarize, we observe the earth’s velocity has been halved by Special Relativity while traveling through identically curved spacetime due to General Relativity. According to General Relativity, this state of affairs is no longer stable. The solar system’s spacetime will rapidly suck the earth down to fiery doom. The Christoffels do not lie. So either the mere act of someone in a different FoR observing the solar system will doom it, or Relativity is necessarily a many-worlds theory. 
> > > > 
> > > > [This should make them ponder things for quite some time, Richard(s). Sure, that windy birds Bodkin will type something about trees and sports cars tout de sweet. But his words will be his typical obfuscations for his utter inability to respond in an effective manner. Tom, Dirk and Sylvia won’t even dare to touch this. I might be interested in what Townes Olson has to type, however.] 
> > > Special Relativity does not generally apply in the presence of gravity, 
> > > so the above is nothing new. 
> > > 
> > > Sylvia. 
> > I'm shocked Sylvia, shocked! Bodkin will tell you there is no such thing as gravity. So will Albert. There is only spacetime and curved spacetime. I'm interested if you disagree.
> This doesn't change Sylvia's point. 

Well then, let's change Sylvia's point.  Shall we, Jan old boy.

For all intents and purposes of my demonstration, you and Sylvia will be horrified to learn the earth orbits through what is essentially flat spacetime.  Please see the excellent write-up by one of my most dedicated students and a denizen of this forum, Prof.  Paul A. Anderson:

https://paulba.no/pdf/Dolan.pdf

Say hello to Aldo and euroHenry for me, Jan.
> 
> -- 
> Jan

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#583337

Frompatdolan <patdolan@comcast.net>
Date2022-04-18 22:38 -0700
Message-ID<7f9e5ab0-11c7-449c-ba0a-3153d82ec897n@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#583335
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 10:34:13 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 9:38:26 PM UTC-7, JanPB wrote: 
> > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 7:45:58 PM UTC-7, patdolan wrote: 
> > > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 7:40:26 PM UTC-7, Sylvia Else wrote: 
> > > > On 19-Apr-22 12:05 pm, patdolan wrote: 
> > > > > General Relativity and Solar System-- 
> > > > > We begin our observation of the distant solar system from flat spacetime. We are located on the line that is collinear with the sun’s axis of rotation. We are at rest wrt to the solar system. From this vantage point we note that according to our wrist watches it takes 365.25 days for the earth to complete one revolution around the sun. No surprise there. This is exactly what General Relativity predicts. The earth will execute one stable turn of a helix at an average distance of one AU in the space dimension, for every 31542115 seconds in the time dimension. General Relativity assures us that curved spacetime in the vicinity of the sun is the sole cause of this behavior. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Special Relativity and the Solar System-- 
> > > > > Now we acquire a velocity of .867c relative to the solar system, directed along the line that is collinear with the sun’s axis of rotation. From our new viewing situation we see that the earth’s path through the solar system’s curves spacetime remains identical to the previous case because the earth’s path remains undistorted by Lorentz contraction. But due to Lorentz time dilation the earth now takes 730.5 days to complete the identical path through the identically curved spacetime. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > To summarize, we observe the earth’s velocity has been halved by Special Relativity while traveling through identically curved spacetime due to General Relativity. According to General Relativity, this state of affairs is no longer stable. The solar system’s spacetime will rapidly suck the earth down to fiery doom. The Christoffels do not lie. So either the mere act of someone in a different FoR observing the solar system will doom it, or Relativity is necessarily a many-worlds theory. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > [This should make them ponder things for quite some time, Richard(s). Sure, that windy birds Bodkin will type something about trees and sports cars tout de sweet. But his words will be his typical obfuscations for his utter inability to respond in an effective manner. Tom, Dirk and Sylvia won’t even dare to touch this. I might be interested in what Townes Olson has to type, however.] 
> > > > Special Relativity does not generally apply in the presence of gravity, 
> > > > so the above is nothing new. 
> > > > 
> > > > Sylvia. 
> > > I'm shocked Sylvia, shocked! Bodkin will tell you there is no such thing as gravity. So will Albert. There is only spacetime and curved spacetime. I'm interested if you disagree. 
> > This doesn't change Sylvia's point.
> Well then, let's change Sylvia's point. Shall we, Jan old boy. 
> 
> For all intents and purposes of my demonstration, you and Sylvia will be horrified to learn the earth orbits through what is essentially flat spacetime. Please see the excellent write-up by one of my most dedicated students and a denizen of this forum, Prof. Paul A. Anderson: 
Paul B. Andersen (sorry Professor)
> 
> https://paulba.no/pdf/Dolan.pdf 
> 
> Say hello to Aldo and euroHenry for me, Jan. 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Jan

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#583340

FromMichael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com>
Date2022-04-19 02:04 -0400
Message-ID<t3lje4$1l9a$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#583335
On 4/19/2022 1:34 AM, patdolan wrote:

> For all intents and purposes of my demonstration, you and Sylvia will be horrified to learn the earth orbits through what is essentially flat spacetime.

If the earth is orbiting, spacetime can't exactly be flat, now can it. 
If spacetime were flat, earth would be moving in a straight line.

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#583341

Frompatdolan <patdolan@comcast.net>
Date2022-04-18 23:20 -0700
Message-ID<ef4e0be8-e20b-4318-883f-edbcccc81f5en@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#583340
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 11:04:57 PM UTC-7, Michael Moroney wrote:
> On 4/19/2022 1:34 AM, patdolan wrote: 
> 
> > For all intents and purposes of my demonstration, you and Sylvia will be horrified to learn the earth orbits through what is essentially flat spacetime.
> If the earth is orbiting, spacetime can't exactly be flat, now can it. 
> If spacetime were flat, earth would be moving in a straight line.
That is a weakness of Paul's paper, to be sure.  From which we might conclude that it is a weakness of Relativity too.

Stick with my work, Moroney.  Paul kind of proves my point in yet another way.  Relativity is a mishmash of thought.  Most 26 year olds do have mishmash for thoughts.

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#583360

FromMichael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com>
Date2022-04-19 11:10 -0400
Message-ID<t3mjc8$vfo$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#583341
On 4/19/2022 2:20 AM, patdolan wrote:
> On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 11:04:57 PM UTC-7, Michael Moroney wrote:
>> On 4/19/2022 1:34 AM, patdolan wrote:
>>
>>> For all intents and purposes of my demonstration, you and Sylvia will be horrified to learn the earth orbits through what is essentially flat spacetime.
>> If the earth is orbiting, spacetime can't exactly be flat, now can it.
>> If spacetime were flat, earth would be moving in a straight line.
> That is a weakness of Paul's paper, to be sure.  From which we might conclude that it is a weakness of Relativity too.
> 
> Stick with my work, Moroney.  Paul kind of proves my point in yet another way.  Relativity is a mishmash of thought.  Most 26 year olds do have mishmash for thoughts.

It doesn't change the fact that flat spacetime would have no orbits, 
just planets moving along a straight line.  Your "essentially flat 
spacetime" statement is clearly false. This is a GR problem.

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#583367

FromMaciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com>
Date2022-04-19 08:28 -0700
Message-ID<9f2e4a03-f13c-4925-9bf5-b75cefba7d6en@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#583360
On Tuesday, 19 April 2022 at 17:10:04 UTC+2, Michael Moroney wrote:
> On 4/19/2022 2:20 AM, patdolan wrote: 
> > On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 11:04:57 PM UTC-7, Michael Moroney wrote: 
> >> On 4/19/2022 1:34 AM, patdolan wrote: 
> >> 
> >>> For all intents and purposes of my demonstration, you and Sylvia will be horrified to learn the earth orbits through what is essentially flat spacetime. 
> >> If the earth is orbiting, spacetime can't exactly be flat, now can it. 
> >> If spacetime were flat, earth would be moving in a straight line. 
> > That is a weakness of Paul's paper, to be sure. From which we might conclude that it is a weakness of Relativity too. 
> > 
> > Stick with my work, Moroney. Paul kind of proves my point in yet another way. Relativity is a mishmash of thought. Most 26 year olds do have mishmash for thoughts.
> It doesn't change the fact that flat spacetime would have no orbits, 
> just planets moving along a straight line.

It was always quite obvious, stupid Mike, that under
your moronic liturgy you believe some absolute movement...
Most of ralativistic morons do.

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