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Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime

From Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime
Date 2022-03-05 15:12 +0000
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <svvul1$1k03$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References <d3acb43f-2b8e-4564-8b93-ea7f3d980865n@googlegroups.com>

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patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> wrote:
> The LCR (Length Contraction Rule) is a fundamental fact of the universe.  

Now that you’re sober, how about we go back to section 1.2 of the book?

> It is logically prior to the principle of relativity.  The principle of
> relativity depends upon, and precedes from the LCR.  The LCR was
> unknowingly discovered by Michelson and Morely and then quantified by
> Lorentz; in much the same way that the falling bodies rule was first
> discovered by Galileo and then quantified by Newton in his theory of gravity.
> 
> But most of the gravitational phenomenon we observe--spiral arms, the
> three body problem, the rings of Saturn, etc.--are not explainable in
> terms of Newton's theory.  Likewise, much of what we observe is not
> explainable in terms of Einstein's principle of relativity.  Take the
> spacetime interval for instance.  The STI is one of the most sacrosanct
> quantities in all of relativity.  It is the basis of the sacred "metric"
> which not only gives life and meaning to special relativity, but is also
> the very foundation on which Einstein's theory of gravity, general relativity, is based.
> 
> The author now demolishes the STI and exposes it as a mere chimera of
> mathematical relativity.  The author invokes a famous example from
> relativity literature: the parable of John & Mary beginning on page 5 of
> Taylor & Wheeler Spacetime Physics
> (https://www.eftaylor.com/spacetimephysics/0000_spacetime_physics.pdf)
> The author has taken the liberty of increasing the relative velocity in
> the parable from 5.91 x 10^7 m/s to 2.60 x 10^8 m/s to reduce the number
> of significant digits used in the calculations, thus minimizing the
> impact of calculator roundoff error.
> 
> In the famous parable we begin on MONDAY in John's inertial frame of
> reference and observe with him the approach of Mary who rides a rocket
> with a relative velocity of 2.6 x 10^8 m/s.  As Mary passes John, a spark
> jumps from Mary's antenna to John's pocket pen.  At this event in
> spacetime, call it E0, both Mary and John start their stopwatches.  Two
> meters away from John, as John measures the distance, another spark jumps
> from Mary's antenna to a fire extinguisher, call this E1, at which Both
> Mary and John stop their stopwatches.
> 
> Later that day John and Mary meet to compare their respective stopwatch
> readings and to calculate their respective spacetime interval values  between E0 and E1.
> 
> John calculates the spacetime interval on Monday:
> Elapsed time between E0 and E1 is  2.0 m/2.6 x 10^8 m/s = 7.7 nsecs
> s = sqrt[ (3.0 x 10^8 m/s x 7.7 nsec)^2 - (2.0 m)^2 ] = 1.15 m
> 
> Mary calculates the spacetime interval on Monday:
> Mary's elapsed time is 3.85 nsecs
> s = sqrt[ (3.0 x 10^8 m/s x 3.85 nsec)^2 -( 0 m)^2 ] = 1.15 m
> 
> On TUESDAY John and Mary repeat the high speed encounter to prove that
> the principle of relativity applies and that there are no favored
> inertial frames of reference.  This time we ride along with Mary.  Mary
> and John start their stopwatches at E0, just like on Monday.  Mary stops
> her stopwatch at E1 after 3.85 nsec just like on Monday.  John stops his
> stopwatch at E1 just like on Monday, after Mary has traveled the 1.0 m to
> the fire extinguisher.  What! Only 1 m????  YES.  The distance between
> John and the fire extinguisher is precisely ONE METER.  This is not an
> optical illusion or some relativistic version of the distance between
> John and the fire extinguisher.  The distance IS IN FACT ONE METER. 
> That's what the LCR proves to us.  There is no favored inertial frame
> where a particular distance is more real than all the other distances. 
> That is the sum total of the principle of relativity.  We proceed with
> John's Tuesday calculation.
> 
> John calculates the spacetime interval on Tuesday:
> Elapsed time between E0 and E1 is  1.0 m/2.6 x 10^8 m/s = 3.85 nsecs
> s = sqrt[ (3.0 x 10^8 m/s x 3.85 nsec)^2 - (1.0 m)^2 ] = 0.58 m
> 
> Mary calculates the spacetime interval on Tuesday:
> Mary's elapsed time is 3.85 nsecs
> s = sqrt[ (3.0 x 10^8 m/s x 3.85 nsec)^2 -( 0 m)^2 ] = 1.15 m
> 
> Thus we find that the concept of the invariant spacetime interval does
> not survive the principle of relativity.  Spacetime intervals for the
> same two spacetime events do not agree when calculated by the same
> observer in different inertial frames of reference.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> TMWBST
> 
> PS-- there exists one man, one wizard of spacetime who might concoct an
> argument to save the spacetime interval by the waving of his magic wand
> which can produce four, five, hell even 8 events from two.  That man,
> that wizard is the one and only Townes Olsen.  It is for he that the
> author chose the E0 and E1 labels.
> 
> 
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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Thread

The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 05:02 -0800
  Can't fix cretin Pat Dolan "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 07:08 -0800
  Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 15:12 +0000
    Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 15:33 +0000
      Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 08:12 -0800
        Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 17:24 +0000
          Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 09:54 -0800
            Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 13:10 +0000
              Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 13:20 +0000
              Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 07:09 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 08:08 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 20:07 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 13:20 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-06 19:56 -0800
                Imbecile Pat Dolan digs himself deeper "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 20:52 -0800
                Re: Imbecile Pat Dolan digs himself deeper The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-07 09:20 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 21:08 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-07 04:30 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 06:43 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-07 09:13 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 11:57 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 13:38 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-07 09:08 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 18:02 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 13:21 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 06:50 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 15:01 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 09:28 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 18:04 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-07 10:35 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 19:49 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 11:47 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 20:01 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 12:10 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 20:26 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 20:29 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 20:17 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 13:56 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 22:21 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 16:07 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-08 00:52 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 18:44 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-08 14:06 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-08 06:59 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-08 07:30 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-08 15:44 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2022-03-08 12:23 +0100
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 13:59 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 10:16 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 22:07 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-07 20:21 +0100
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 20:01 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-08 10:19 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-07 12:58 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 21:41 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-07 13:52 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-07 14:14 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 22:20 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 16:14 -0800
      Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 08:26 -0800
        Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 08:43 -0800
          Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 09:07 -0800
            Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 09:11 -0800
              Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 09:21 -0800
                Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 09:27 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 09:28 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 09:42 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 10:53 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 11:08 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 11:46 -0800
                Cretin Pat Dolan at work "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 11:56 -0800
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan at work patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 12:18 -0800
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan at work "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 12:22 -0800
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan at work "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 13:17 -0800
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan at work patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 14:10 -0800
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan at work Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 14:36 -0800
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan at work patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 14:59 -0800
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan at work Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 15:23 -0800
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan at work Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 12:08 +0000
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan at work Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 22:52 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 12:00 -0800
              Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 17:27 +0000
        Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 17:24 +0000
          Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 09:41 -0800
            Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 13:10 +0000
    Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Darin Herr <dh@yahoo.com> - 2022-03-05 15:46 +0000
  Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 07:53 -0800
    Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 08:14 -0800

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