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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #579788

Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime

From The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime
Date 2022-03-08 10:19 -0800
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <62279E4A.33B9@ix.netcom.com> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <74da4ebd-5fc4-4334-9409-df0449dca576n@googlegroups.com> <t02brq$ebk$2@gioia.aioe.org> <3639a5c2-a0d1-4e94-bac8-df22adc2b825n@googlegroups.com> <RWsVJ.23440$dS2.10835@fx11.ams4> <t05oak$14se$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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Odd Bodkin wrote:
> 
> Paul B. Andersen <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Den 06.03.2022 16:09, skrev Townes Olson:
> >> On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 5:10:21 AM UTC-8, bodk...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>> And this is where you simply deny the pedagogical intent of the authors to
> >>> focus on a single pair of events...
> >>
> >> That brain-dead book says "John and Mary each measure the lapse of time
> >> between pen-spark and extinguisher-spark.  They use accurate and fast
> >> electronic clocks. John measures 33.690 nanosec and Mary measures
> >> 33.0228 nanosec."  Do you see?  Based on this, can you blame Pat for
> >> saying that John and Mary can each start their stopwatches at the
> >> pen-spark and stop their stopwatches at the extinguisher-spark?  Of
> >> course, the first thing to note is that although Mary can do this
> >> (because she is present at both sparks), John cannot, because John is
> >> not present at the extinguisher spark.  So...
> >
> > Exactly! That's why Pat can be blamed for being ignorant.
> >
> > The scenario is precisely defined in the book.
> > It doesn't - in this scenario - explain what
> > spacetime intervals are, or how to calculate them.
> > This is explained later in the book.
> >
> > But Pat claims that he knows, and he chose the scenario
> > in order to demonstrate that he even can prove that spacetime
> > intervals are not invariant.
> >
> > Pat wrote:
> > "At this event in spacetime, call it E0, both Mary and John
> >  start their stopwatches.  Two meters away from John, as John
> >  measures the distance, another spark jumps from Mary's antenna
> >  to a fire extinguisher, call this E1, at which Both Mary and John
> >  stop their stopwatches."
> >
> > If Pat had known what a spacetime interval is, he would
> > have known that the temporal interval only can be measured
> > by clocks present at the events, and when the events are
> > at different spatial points, that means two clocks.
> >
> > And Pat wrote:
> > "Mary and John start their stopwatches at E0, just like on Monday.
> >  Mary stops her stopwatch at E1 after 3.85 nsec just like on Monday.
> >  John stops his stopwatch at E1 just like on Monday, after Mary has
> >  traveled the 1.0 m to the fire extinguisher.  What! Only 1 m????"
> >
> > Pat does obviously not understand that there is no way
> > John can start his stopwatch at E0 and stop it at E1.
> >
> > And it is obviously ridiculous to think that the spatial interval
> > in John's rest frame can be measured in Mary's rest frame.
> >
> >>
> >> To avoid being brain-dead, the book would need to explain what it means
> >> for John to measure (with his accurate and fast electronic clock) a
> >> lapse of time of 33.690 nanosec "between the sparks". ereby doubling
> >> it's membership) are not helpful.
> >
> > The book explains that later. The problem is presented first,
> > the solution later.
> >
> > You can't blame the book for Pat's ignorance.
> >
> > The point is that Pat claimed to know what spacetime interval is,
> > and to know how to calculate the interval in different frames of
> > reference, and he even claimed that he had proven that  spacetime
> > interval is not invariant.
> >
> > Pat has demonstrated that he is ignorant and therefore
> > his calculations were nonsense.
> >
> > So what more is it to discuss?
> >
> 
> Pat has simply deviated from the presentation in the book, jumping ahead to
> try invoke rules like length contraction. That’s a problem with short
> attention span and a little bad information infestation in his head.
> 
> The good thing about a book is that it will take you through a set of
> pedagogically illuminating steps without you having to go pig-wild over
> things that are not yet covered or not particularly important for the
> current step.
> 
> Of course, Pat also suffers from the anxiety of actually learning
> something, as opposed to the peace of mind he gets by throwing dirt in the
> air and claiming the whole thing is a mess. This is perhaps why Pat is
> stuck on Chapter 1, Section 2, unwilling or unable to move on — of course
> not helped by Townes adding to the distraction by exclaiming, “No, MINE is
> the only correct way to present relativity, pay attention to ME, not the
> book.”
> 
> --
> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables


The 'teachers' *always* blame their incompentance on the students.


It's time to 'evaluate the teachers'.













-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
 to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge
 the unchallengeable.

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Thread

The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 05:02 -0800
  Can't fix cretin Pat Dolan "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 07:08 -0800
  Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 15:12 +0000
    Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 15:33 +0000
      Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 08:12 -0800
        Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 17:24 +0000
          Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 09:54 -0800
            Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 13:10 +0000
              Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 13:20 +0000
              Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 07:09 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 08:08 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 20:07 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 13:20 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-06 19:56 -0800
                Imbecile Pat Dolan digs himself deeper "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 20:52 -0800
                Re: Imbecile Pat Dolan digs himself deeper The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-07 09:20 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 21:08 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-07 04:30 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 06:43 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-07 09:13 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 11:57 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 13:38 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-07 09:08 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 18:02 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 13:21 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 06:50 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 15:01 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 09:28 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 18:04 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-07 10:35 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 19:49 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 11:47 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 20:01 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 12:10 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 20:26 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 20:29 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 20:17 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 13:56 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 22:21 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 16:07 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-08 00:52 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 18:44 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-08 14:06 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-08 06:59 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-08 07:30 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-08 15:44 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2022-03-08 12:23 +0100
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 13:59 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 10:16 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 22:07 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-07 20:21 +0100
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 20:01 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-08 10:19 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-07 12:58 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 21:41 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-07 13:52 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-07 14:14 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 22:20 +0000
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-07 16:14 -0800
      Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 08:26 -0800
        Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 08:43 -0800
          Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 09:07 -0800
            Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 09:11 -0800
              Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 09:21 -0800
                Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 09:27 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 09:28 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 09:42 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 10:53 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 11:08 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 11:46 -0800
                Cretin Pat Dolan at work "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 11:56 -0800
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan at work patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 12:18 -0800
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan at work "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 12:22 -0800
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan at work "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 13:17 -0800
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan at work patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 14:10 -0800
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan at work Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 14:36 -0800
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan at work patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 14:59 -0800
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan at work Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 15:23 -0800
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan at work Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 12:08 +0000
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan at work Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 22:52 -0800
                Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 12:00 -0800
              Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 17:27 +0000
        Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 17:24 +0000
          Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 09:41 -0800
            Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-06 13:10 +0000
    Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Darin Herr <dh@yahoo.com> - 2022-03-05 15:46 +0000
  Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-05 07:53 -0800
    Re: The Man Who Broke Spacetime patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-05 08:14 -0800

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