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Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation

From	Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation
Date	2024-09-07 09:41 +0200
Message-ID	<lk2eckF293iU5@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(6 earlier) <vbactr$3v15v$1@dont-email.me> <aUNR2GXBkc_bVoYI-Y6TV491wuE@jntp> <vbc7tk$at7q$2@dont-email.me> <lk03v3Fm189U3@mid.individual.net> <2TOIBGhW83TcebijdkWw8kkZuQw@jntp>

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Am Freitag000006, 06.09.2024 um 13:31 schrieb Richard Hachel:
> Le 06/09/2024 à 12:31, Thomas Heger a écrit :
>> Usually we have an observer (say 'A') at a certain spot (also called 
>> 'A'), who measures distances from his own position.
>>
>> The measured object (say 'B') moves - say- away at a certain speed v.
>>
>> But seen from B the point A moves away with the same speed, though 
>> into the opposite direction.
> 
> 
> Here, already, there arises a problem that physicists do not see, or 
> even deny for forty years, that is to say since I told them.
> How is this speed characterized in a relativistic universe?
> There are three ways to propose what A sees of B.
> -The real speed (which is a primordial concept but is never used, except 
> in a roundabout way by posing m'=m/sqrt(1-v²/c²), which is an absurdity 
> imposing the relativity of masses. A bus becoming two buses by change of 
> reference frame.
> -The observable speed, measured with two separate watches A and B, and 
> which is the classic speed used, but false.
> - The apparent speed (what we see with the naked eye in telescopes 
> because of anisochrony, that is to say the inverse of the speed of light).
> 
> We therefore have three simple notations of what a speed is.
> 
> Vr, Vo, Vapp.
> 
> We will note that the absence of a preferred reference frame in the 
> universe,
> means that these three speeds remain constant by permutation of observer.
> 
> Let us pose an entity B which moves away from A at 0.8c (speed in 
> classical notation). We have Vo=0.8c, Vr=(4/3)c, Vapp=(4/9)c.

We are talking here in the context of SRT.

But SRT assumes inertial frames of refence, hence assumes a background 
space, which is not the real universe we live in.

In SRT there exist only unaccelearted streight worldlines, along which 
any object would float.

This is not how the real universe operates, where practically nothing 
moves in a streight line.

Now we can only use the SRT background here, because otherwise SRT would 
not work, anhow.

This SRT-space would allow to regard any movement along a streight line 
as being equivalent to an object at rest.

Now we could repeat the same trick and apply 0.8 c once, stop that to 
zero, apply 0.8c a second time and still are allowed to halt this to zero.

But how would you introduce a 'speedlimit' in a space with such features?



TH

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Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-29 22:15 +0000
  Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-08-30 15:20 +0200
    Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-30 15:43 +0200
    Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-30 16:31 +0000
      Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-08-31 08:30 +0200
        Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-31 07:05 +0000
          Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-08-31 22:11 +0200
            Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-08-31 23:01 +0200
            Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-08-31 21:14 +0000
              Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-01 02:26 +0200
              Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-01 11:58 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-01 12:12 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-09-01 11:25 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-01 14:29 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-09-01 14:13 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-01 19:21 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-09-01 17:25 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-01 19:53 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-09-01 17:38 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-01 11:22 -0700
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-01 11:56 -0700
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-01 12:29 -0700
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-02 01:41 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-01 19:30 -0700
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-02 05:29 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-01 19:42 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-09-01 20:29 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-02 01:39 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-02 14:00 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-03 01:04 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 09:07 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-03 11:25 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 09:28 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-02 19:24 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 10:03 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-03 17:21 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 20:20 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 20:32 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 21:08 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 21:24 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 23:20 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-04 00:32 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-04 21:38 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-04 22:24 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-04 22:54 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-04 23:02 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-05 14:25 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-04 23:23 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-05 14:25 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-05 14:15 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-05 22:19 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-05 20:31 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-05 22:57 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-05 23:03 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-09-06 15:21 +0300
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-06 15:44 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-05 17:26 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-06 12:31 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-06 12:52 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-06 11:15 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-07 09:30 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-06 11:31 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-07 09:41 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-06 11:41 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-02 14:42 +0200
              Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-01 12:25 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-01 12:31 +0200
          Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-01 08:28 +0200
            Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-01 10:18 +0000
              Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-09-01 16:21 +0300
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-01 21:47 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-09-03 13:57 +0300
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 11:49 +0000
              Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-02 08:26 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-02 12:16 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-02 14:29 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-03 07:53 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-04 09:24 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-04 14:05 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-05 08:44 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-02 12:27 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-02 12:36 +0000
            Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-01 14:34 +0200
        Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-31 12:29 +0200
    Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-30 16:37 +0000
      Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-08-30 20:27 +0200

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