Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #656591

Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation

From	Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation
Date	2024-08-31 08:30 +0200
Message-ID	<ljfrjfF3hr1U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <uFAyL-g_jsWF5wwLXINmyrzxquo@jntp> <vaa4om$sicr$16@dont-email.me> <tAXYNx1-wzYUg_H0N6FWnLiQgFs@jntp> <vasgsq$go2j$1@dont-email.me> <TjDY9uUVn5uYrwKeP_H1Mk0G5x8@jntp>

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Am Freitag000030, 30.08.2024 um 18:31 schrieb Richard Hachel:
...
>> Einstein says:
>> "We have not defined a common “time” for A and B, for the latter
>>   cannot be defined at all unless we establish _by definition_
>>   that the “time” required by light to travel from A to B equals
>>   the “time” it requires to travel from B to A."
>>
>> And:
>>   "In accordance with definition the two clocks synchronize if
>>       tB(e2) - tA(e1) = tA(e3) - tB(e2)"
>>
>>   tB(e2) - tA(e1) is the time the light uses to go from A to B
>>   tA(e3) - tB(e2) is the time the light uses to go from B to A
>>
>> Einstein _defines_ that the clocks simultaneously show
>> the same (are synchronous in the stationary system)
>> if the time the light uses to go from A to B equals
>> the time the light uses to go from B to A.


What had actually the reading of a clock to do with how fast light moves 
from A to B?

This would be a non sequitur, if time would not be what clocks say.


In fact light is here used to synchronize distant clocks.

But that does not say, that clocks would use light to measure time.

Usually clocks use other means than light, like pendulums or Quartz 
crystals.

To syncronize distant clocks, we would need to adjust them in a way, 
that they tick at the same rate and show the same time.

To measure this 'in synch' we would need to measure the delay and add 
this to the observed time from the remote system.

But this step cannot be found anywhere in Einstein's paper.


...


TH



...

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The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-23 11:15 +0000
  Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-23 15:03 +0300
    Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-23 12:20 +0000
      Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-23 16:01 +0200
        Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-29 22:15 +0000
          Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-08-30 15:20 +0200
            Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-30 15:43 +0200
            Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-30 16:31 +0000
              Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-08-31 08:30 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-31 07:05 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-08-31 22:11 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-08-31 23:01 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-08-31 21:14 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-01 02:26 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-01 11:58 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-01 12:12 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-09-01 11:25 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-01 14:29 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-09-01 14:13 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-01 19:21 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-09-01 17:25 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-01 19:53 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-09-01 17:38 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-01 11:22 -0700
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-01 11:56 -0700
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-01 12:29 -0700
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-02 01:41 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-01 19:30 -0700
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-02 05:29 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-01 19:42 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-09-01 20:29 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-02 01:39 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-02 14:00 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-03 01:04 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 09:07 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-03 11:25 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 09:28 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-02 19:24 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 10:03 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-03 17:21 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 20:20 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 20:32 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 21:08 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 21:24 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 23:20 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-04 00:32 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-04 21:38 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-04 22:24 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-04 22:54 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-04 23:02 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-05 14:25 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-04 23:23 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-05 14:25 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-05 14:15 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-05 22:19 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-05 20:31 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-05 22:57 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-05 23:03 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-09-06 15:21 +0300
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-06 15:44 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-05 17:26 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-06 12:31 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-06 12:52 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-06 11:15 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-07 09:30 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-06 11:31 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-07 09:41 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-06 11:41 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-02 14:42 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-01 12:25 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-01 12:31 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-01 08:28 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-01 10:18 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-09-01 16:21 +0300
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-01 21:47 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-09-03 13:57 +0300
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-03 11:49 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-02 08:26 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-02 12:16 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-02 14:29 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-03 07:53 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-04 09:24 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-04 14:05 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-05 08:44 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-02 12:27 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@wanadou.fr> - 2024-09-02 12:36 +0000
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-01 14:34 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-31 12:29 +0200
            Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-30 16:37 +0000
              Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-08-30 20:27 +0200
      Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-24 10:26 +0300
  Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-08-23 21:51 +0200
    Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-23 21:13 +0000
      Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-08-24 02:26 +0000
        Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-24 11:28 +0000
          Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-08-24 13:28 +0000
          Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-08-24 22:11 +0200
            Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-24 20:26 +0000
              Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-08-25 13:17 +0200
                Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-08-25 13:38 +0200
          Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-08-25 09:30 +0200
        Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-08-31 23:05 +0000
          Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-01 13:47 +0200
            Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-09-01 14:04 +0000
              Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-09-01 20:09 +0200
      Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-25 11:45 +0300
  Re: The problem of relativistic synchronisation Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-03 11:23 +0200

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