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Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen from Russia

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On 5/26/26 8:26 AM, Jaco Kroon wrote:

> My *personal* gripe was with the way in which it was blanket assumed/
> stated/implied all ISPs sell data.  Stating it that way, may not have
> been your intent, but I did find that more offensive than I thought I
> would.  Perhaps knee-jerk as to some of our own (fortunately in the far
> minority) customers who insist they must use a VPN to "anonymise" or
> "hide" their traffic, but then complain to us (ISP) because they're
> having a terrible user experience.  That's not on you, that's just my
> history and context, and that's on me.
> 
> Sam's statement that a VPN is just another ISP is (imho) a crude but
> accurate one.  Which means all you're doing is moving the point of
> trust.  You may not trust your local connecting ISP, so you tunnel
> through them to another point of connection (VPN).


Like I said (first):

> On 5/18/26 9:19 PM, Eli Schwartz wrote:
> 
>> VPNs let you "hide" your traffic from your ISP, by essentially having
>> two ISPs, and your first ISP only sees traffic to the second ISP. The
>> second ISP (really a VPN) sees all the traffic, and as an ISP that
>> specializes in controlling traffic from "people who feel they need to
>> hide", a VPN is a much bigger legal target.
>> 
>> Most VPNs are in it for money, not ethics, and have a far worse track
>> record for obeying subpoenas.
>> 
>> Most VPNs try to tell you the VPN tech is automatically "hiding your
>> data from your ISP" because they cater to customers who are easily fooled.
>> 
>> A VPN is useful for moving your zone of interception to a different
>> legal zone, so it's also good for:
>> 
>> - evading region-restricted sales (e.g. streaming movies only available
>>   in another country)
>> 
>> - bypassing your totalitarian government censors, if you aren't worried
>>   about getting caught "suspiciously using a VPN"


I do maintain that VPNs are bad by default, unless one first becomes
aware their primary ISP has worse-than-average policies (which of course
can happen).



-- 
Eli Schwartz

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[gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen from Russia Andrey Grozin <grozin@gentoo.org> - 2025-05-14 15:50 +0200
    Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen from Russia Andreas Sturmlechner <asturm@gentoo.org> - 2025-05-14 17:10 +0200
    Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen  from Russia Andrey Grozin <grozin@gentoo.org> - 2025-05-14 17:40 +0200
  Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen  from Russia "Robin H. Johnson" <robbat2@gentoo.org> - 2025-05-14 19:30 +0200
    Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen  from Russia Andrey Grozin <grozin@gentoo.org> - 2025-05-15 13:20 +0200
      Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen  from Russia Andrey Grozin <grozin@gentoo.org> - 2025-05-15 13:30 +0200
        [gentoo-dev] Re: strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen from Russia Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> - 2025-05-17 07:10 +0200
    [gentoo-dev] Re: strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen from Russia Anna <cyber+gentoo@sysrq.in> - 2025-05-16 13:30 +0200
  Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen  from Russia Andrey Grozin <grozin@gentoo.org> - 2025-05-24 08:00 +0200
    Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen from Russia Azamat Hackimov <azamat.hackimov@gmail.com> - 2026-05-15 14:00 +0200
      Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen  from Russia Andrey Grozin <grozin@gentoo.org> - 2026-05-17 07:40 +0200
        Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen from  Russia Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> - 2026-05-17 08:10 +0200
          Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen  from Russia Sam James <sam@gentoo.org> - 2026-05-18 21:20 +0200
            Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen from  Russia Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> - 2026-05-18 22:00 +0200
              Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen from  Russia Eli Schwartz <eschwartz@gentoo.org> - 2026-05-19 03:30 +0200
                Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen from Russia Alexey Sokolov <alexey+gentoo@asokolov.org> - 2026-05-19 09:40 +0200
                Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen from  Russia Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> - 2026-05-19 10:40 +0200
                Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen from  Russia Jaco Kroon <jkroon@gentoo.org> - 2026-05-19 12:40 +0200
                Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen from  Russia Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> - 2026-05-25 19:00 +0200
                Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen  from Russia Sam James <sam@gentoo.org> - 2026-05-26 06:10 +0200
                Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen from  Russia Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 09:50 +0200
                Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen  from Russia Sam James <sam@gentoo.org> - 2026-05-26 12:10 +0200
                Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen  from Russia Sam James <sam@gentoo.org> - 2026-05-26 12:30 +0200
                Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen from  Russia Jaco Kroon <jkroon@gentoo.org> - 2026-05-26 14:30 +0200
                Re: [gentoo-dev] strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen from  Russia Eli Schwartz <eschwartz@gentoo.org> - 2026-05-26 15:30 +0200
                [gentoo-dev] Re: strange problems with some gentoo sites as seen from Russia Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> - 2026-05-26 08:40 +0200

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