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Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick

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On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 at 08:54 Stefano Rivera <stefanor@debian.org> wrote:

> There's a fundamental question to ask here. Do we want to welcome Python
> packages into the team, or do we want to put up barriers and require a
> level of commitment before packages can be brought into the team?


Speaking for myself, I welcome anybody working on 'my' packages. As in
making changes to subversion/git or even uploading packages. Sure mistakes
can happen, packages might even become broken, however I think the risks of
packages going unmaintained is far more damaging.

I had several packages or mine fail to get into Jessie, because of trivial
release critical bugs in dependent packages, and the official maintainer
ignored the bug reports. I believe this is why we have team maintainers -
so anybody can work on the packages. Yes - I could have also done an
immediate NMU - however not being the maintainer I wasn't aware of the
release critical bug until the packages had been removed and it was too
late to do anything - the release team wouldn't let one package back in
despite the fact the only bug was a problem with the copyright file.

My impression is that it is a minority that get upset when people upload
'their' packages to the Debian archive without asking for permission first.
I think these people tend to be active developers, so maybe these
maintainers should be treated as special cases?

My understanding - correct me if I am wrong - is that nobody has ever
complained about committing changes to subversion/git. Which rather puzzles
me that Thomas Goirand was removed from DPMT and PAPT - I believe (am I
mistaken?) this removes his ability to commit changes to subversion (which
was OK), but not remove his ability to upload packages (which was not
always OK).


> On the other hand, if we raise barriers, we reduce the size and
> influence of the team. The few packages we maintain, we can probably
> maintain to a higher standard. Maybe there'd be less bickering, because
> we'd be working together more (not that I think we have much).
> Newcomers would be rarer (there's a commitment) but more valuable to the
> team. Or would we start to attract people faster because of our level of
> activity?
>

With fewer packages in the team, we would end up with more packages being
out-of-date and poorly maintained. This would lead to even more people
installing packages directly using pip, and Debian packaging would become
less relevant for Python developers.

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Thread

[DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-02 01:20 +0200
  Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-02 09:50 +0200
    Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2015-10-02 10:20 +0200
      Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-02 10:40 +0200
        Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2015-10-02 11:00 +0200
          Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-02 11:20 +0200
        Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick IOhannes m zmölnig (Debian/GNU)  <umlaeute@debian.org> - 2015-10-05 12:40 +0200
      Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Elena ``of Valhalla'' <elena.valhalla@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 11:00 +0200
        Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-02 11:30 +0200
          Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Elena ``of Valhalla'' <elena.valhalla@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 13:40 +0200
          Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-10-02 16:40 +0200
    Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-02 13:30 +0200
  Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Nikolaus Rath <Nikolaus@rath.org> - 2015-10-02 18:20 +0200
    Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-10-02 20:30 +0200
    Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick IOhannes m zmölnig (Debian/GNU)  <umlaeute@debian.org> - 2015-10-05 12:00 +0200
    Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Arthur de Jong <adejong@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 14:10 +0200
      Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 14:20 +0200
        Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick IOhannes m zmölnig (Debian/GNU)  <umlaeute@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 14:40 +0200
        team vs individual as maintainer (was: radical changes) "W. Martin Borgert" <debacle@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 14:40 +0200
          Re: team vs individual as maintainer (was: radical changes) Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 15:30 +0200
            Re: team vs individual as maintainer Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 15:40 +0200
              Re: team vs individual as maintainer "W. Martin Borgert" <debacle@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 15:50 +0200
              Re: team vs individual as maintainer Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 15:50 +0200
                Re: team vs individual as maintainer Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 16:10 +0200
                Re: team vs individual as maintainer Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 16:20 +0200
              Re: team vs individual as maintainer Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-17 00:00 +0200
                git instead of svn in policy (was Re: team vs individual as  maintainer) IOhannes m zmölnig (Debian/GNU)  <umlaeute@debian.org> - 2015-10-17 20:20 +0200
                Re: git instead of svn in DPMT policy Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-17 20:50 +0200
                Re: git instead of svn in DPMT policy Brian May <brian@microcomaustralia.com.au> - 2015-10-18 03:10 +0200
                Re: git instead of svn in DPMT policy Sandro Tosi <morph@debian.org> - 2015-10-18 13:50 +0200
                Re: git instead of svn in DPMT policy Barry Warsaw <barry@python.org> - 2015-10-19 18:10 +0200
        Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Arthur de Jong <adejong@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 15:40 +0200
        Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Nikolaus Rath <Nikolaus@rath.org> - 2015-10-07 17:10 +0200
        Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 18:30 +0200
  Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-10-02 20:40 +0200
    Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Stefano Rivera <stefanor@debian.org> - 2015-10-05 00:00 +0200
      Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Brian May <brian@microcomaustralia.com.au> - 2015-10-05 00:40 +0200
      Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-10-05 13:30 +0200
        Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-10-06 00:10 +0200
  Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-10-03 01:40 +0200

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