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Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick

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On Sunday, October 04, 2015 11:54:18 PM Stefano Rivera wrote:
> This thread has had me thinking a bit.
> 
> Hi Scott (2015.10.02_20:34:16_+0200)
> 
> > Personally, I like the current approach where someone can either commit to
> > either strong team maintainership (DPMT in maintainer) or weak team
> > involvement (DPMT as uploader).  If you'll check, I have done both and it
> > reflects my level of interest in the package.
> 
> I like it too, but I don't actually use it very accurately. Whether I'm
> maintainer or uploader for a package is more an accident of history than
> anything else. I should probably fix that.
> 
> That said I haven't found it makes much difference to people's
> contributions to my packages. I've woken up to find that something was
> added to SVN and uploaded, immediately.
> 
> > Personally, I would find this kind of rule demotivating.  I think it will
> > actually discourage participation which isn't what we want.
> 
> There's a fundamental question to ask here. Do we want to welcome Python
> packages into the team, or do we want to put up barriers and require a
> level of commitment before packages can be brought into the team?
> 
> What are the possible outcomes of either choice?
> 
> 
> I'd imagine that if we're open, we become the natural home for most
> Python packages in the archive.
> Transitions become easier, and standardisation of the vast majority of
> Python packages in the archive is within our power.
> 
> We'll collect cruft. But so does the rest of the archive. I don't think
> being open will necessarily increase the amount of crufty Python in the
> archive.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, if we raise barriers, we reduce the size and
> influence of the team. The few packages we maintain, we can probably
> maintain to a higher standard. Maybe there'd be less bickering, because
> we'd be working together more (not that I think we have much).
> Newcomers would be rarer (there's a commitment) but more valuable to the
> team. Or would we start to attract people faster because of our level of
> activity?
> 
> Of the newcomers we turn away, I don't think most will abandon their pet
> packages. They'll just not do it in our team. New Python teams will form,
> and many more Python packages will be individually maintained. I know
> most of us have QA interests wider than the team, and this isn't
> desirable for us.
> 
> How would we feel if a cabal-free-python team formed? Would any of us
> join it?
> 
> And as to cruft. What happens when a widely-used package that is
> maintained by a 3-month inactive maintainer gets evicted? Do we orphan
> it? Alternatively, is the team prepared to take on all these packages?
> 
> 
> If we want to seriously think about these issues, should we start
> lighter-weight?
> 
> * Audit the team for crufty packages that should be RMed.
> * or need love.
> * Audit the team for inactive members.
> * ... and their packages.
> 
> Doing something about these is within our power right now.
> 
> Can we find "carrot" ways to encourage team members to work on packages
> besides their own?
> 
> Many of the problems arising from inactive team members are problems
> that affect the wider Debian, equally.

I think that you describe to reasonably accurate directions the team can go.  
Personally, I prefer the "natural home for most Python packages in the 
archive" vision.

I think we should have a minimum of rules, but people should follow the ones 
we do have.

Scott K

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[DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-02 01:20 +0200
  Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-02 09:50 +0200
    Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2015-10-02 10:20 +0200
      Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-02 10:40 +0200
        Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2015-10-02 11:00 +0200
          Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-02 11:20 +0200
        Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick IOhannes m zmölnig (Debian/GNU)  <umlaeute@debian.org> - 2015-10-05 12:40 +0200
      Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Elena ``of Valhalla'' <elena.valhalla@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 11:00 +0200
        Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-02 11:30 +0200
          Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Elena ``of Valhalla'' <elena.valhalla@gmail.com> - 2015-10-02 13:40 +0200
          Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-10-02 16:40 +0200
    Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-02 13:30 +0200
  Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Nikolaus Rath <Nikolaus@rath.org> - 2015-10-02 18:20 +0200
    Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-10-02 20:30 +0200
    Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick IOhannes m zmölnig (Debian/GNU)  <umlaeute@debian.org> - 2015-10-05 12:00 +0200
    Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Arthur de Jong <adejong@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 14:10 +0200
      Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 14:20 +0200
        Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick IOhannes m zmölnig (Debian/GNU)  <umlaeute@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 14:40 +0200
        team vs individual as maintainer (was: radical changes) "W. Martin Borgert" <debacle@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 14:40 +0200
          Re: team vs individual as maintainer (was: radical changes) Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 15:30 +0200
            Re: team vs individual as maintainer Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 15:40 +0200
              Re: team vs individual as maintainer "W. Martin Borgert" <debacle@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 15:50 +0200
              Re: team vs individual as maintainer Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 15:50 +0200
                Re: team vs individual as maintainer Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 16:10 +0200
                Re: team vs individual as maintainer Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 16:20 +0200
              Re: team vs individual as maintainer Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-17 00:00 +0200
                git instead of svn in policy (was Re: team vs individual as  maintainer) IOhannes m zmölnig (Debian/GNU)  <umlaeute@debian.org> - 2015-10-17 20:20 +0200
                Re: git instead of svn in DPMT policy Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-17 20:50 +0200
                Re: git instead of svn in DPMT policy Brian May <brian@microcomaustralia.com.au> - 2015-10-18 03:10 +0200
                Re: git instead of svn in DPMT policy Sandro Tosi <morph@debian.org> - 2015-10-18 13:50 +0200
                Re: git instead of svn in DPMT policy Barry Warsaw <barry@python.org> - 2015-10-19 18:10 +0200
        Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Arthur de Jong <adejong@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 15:40 +0200
        Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Nikolaus Rath <Nikolaus@rath.org> - 2015-10-07 17:10 +0200
        Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2015-10-07 18:30 +0200
  Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-10-02 20:40 +0200
    Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Stefano Rivera <stefanor@debian.org> - 2015-10-05 00:00 +0200
      Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Brian May <brian@microcomaustralia.com.au> - 2015-10-05 00:40 +0200
      Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-10-05 13:30 +0200
        Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-10-06 00:10 +0200
  Re: [DPMT] radical changes: automation, carrot and stick Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-10-03 01:40 +0200

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