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Re: is the ct-thesis cooked?

Subject Re: is the ct-thesis cooked?
Newsgroups comp.theory, comp.ai.philosophy, comp.software-eng
References (24 earlier) <10kkd7v$r0n$1@dont-email.me> <_oEbR.400756$rbZb.321304@fx17.iad> <10kn6oj$uupj$5@dont-email.me> <w_KbR.933037$H7H.622696@fx13.iad> <10kpbma$1o0br$1@dont-email.me>
From Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID <dV4dR.641021$CZPd.555399@fx18.iad> (permalink)
Organization Forte - www.forteinc.com
Date 2026-01-24 09:44 -0500

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On 1/20/26 8:55 PM, dart200 wrote:
> On 1/20/26 4:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 1/20/26 1:18 AM, dart200 wrote:
>>> On 1/19/26 9:29 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 1/18/26 11:51 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>>>> On 1/18/26 4:28 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/18/26 4:50 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/18/26 12:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/18/26 1:15 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 1/18/26 4:05 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/18/26 1:05 AM, dart200 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/17/26 7:28 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/17/26 10:14 PM, dart200 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck starving to death when your money runs out.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> one can only hope for so much sometimes 🙏
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess you don't understand the rules of logic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> also not an argument
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Again, YOUR PROBLEM.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's pretty crazy i can produce a machine (even if u 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> haven't understood it yet) that produces a consistent 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deterministic result that is "not a computation".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because you get that result only by equivocating on your 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the context is part of the inpt to make the output 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> determistic from the input, then they fail to be usable as 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sub- computations as we can't control that context part of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the input.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When we look at just the controllable input for a sub- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computation, the output is NOT a deterministic function of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that inut.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not sure what the fuck it's doing if it's not a computation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its using hidden inputs that the caller can't control.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> which we do all the time in normal programming, something 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> which apparently u think the tHeOrY oF CoMpUtInG fails to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> encapsulate
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, but that isn't about computations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty crazy we do a bunch "non-computating" in the normal 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> act of programming computers
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As I have said, "Computatations" is NOT about how modern 
>>>>>>>>>>>> computers work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess you are just showing that you fundamentally don't 
>>>>>>>>>>>> understand the problem field you are betting your life on.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> one would presume the fundamental theory of computing would 
>>>>>>>>>>> be general enough to encapsulate everything computed by real 
>>>>>>>>>>> world computers, no???
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Remember, the fundamental theory of Computing PREDATES the 
>>>>>>>>>> computer as you know it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> so ur saying it's outdated and needs updating in regards to new 
>>>>>>>>> things we do with computers that apparently turing machines as 
>>>>>>>>> a model don't have variations of ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, it still handles that which it was developed for.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> well it was developed to be a general theory of computing, and 
>>>>>>> apparently modern computing has transcended that theory ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not really.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> THe way modern processors work, "sub-routines" can fail to be 
>>>>>> computations, but whole programs will tend to be. Sub-routines CAN 
>>>>>> be built with care to fall under its guidance.
>>>>>
>>>>> lol, what are they even if not "computations"???
>>>>
>>>> not-computations
>>>
>>> great, a set of deterministic steps that produces a result but is 
>>> somehow not a compution!
>>
>> Because it isn't deterministically based on the INPUT, 
> 
> no it's just a series of steps to produce some output.

Nope, not in the formulation of the theory.

> 
> it may or may not have an input, and in fact the entirety of turing 
> machine computing can be expressed by enumerating only the turing 
> machines that do NOT take input.

In which case the input can be thought of as the empty set and the 
output is a constant.

> 
>> but include other "unknown" factors.
> 
> lol, so when u print a stack trace, u consider those factors "unknown"?

Thus making your definistic fallacy of confusing an instance of a 
computation with the definition and use of the computation itself.

If I am trying to document an API, but the results depend on something 
not provided through that API, as far as that documentation is conserned 
those details are "unknown".

> 
>>
>> The key point is that a computation always gives the same answer for a 
>> given input, if it doesn't, it can't be a computation.
>>
>> If you can't control the whole input, it isn't as useful, if it has 
>> any usefullness at all.
>>
>>>
>>> fucking dick is just pulling shit out of his ass, 🤮🤮🤮
>>
>> It seems you are stuffing yours with shit.
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> THere ARE advantages to doing so, as that DOES add a lot of 
>>>>>> correctness provability to the code.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The biggest part of code not being analyzable/provable is when it 
>>>>>> deviates from the requirements of being a computation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> or what ... someone writes down a fundamental theory and then 
>>>>>>>>> it just sticks around like an unchanging law when u haven't 
>>>>>>>>> even proven the ct- thesis correct???
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why does it need to change?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> why does the fundamental theory of computing need to encapsulate 
>>>>>>> all that is possible within computing??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is like asking about shouldn't number theory talk about 
>>>>>> everything mathematics.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> idk, what's what i thot a fundamental theory is supposed to do, 
>>>>>>> but i guess you don't agree???
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope, it handles ONE ASPECT of the general field.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We not only have Computation Theory, but we also get things like 
>>>>>> Complexity Theory,
>>>>>
>>>>> complexity theory is built on top of the fundamentals of computing ...
>>>>
>>>> Yes, just like computability/comptation theory.
>>>>
>>>> The field of "Computer Science" has a bunch of subfields/theories 
>>>> within it.
>>>>
>>>> You seem to confuse Computation THeory with fundamental of computing.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> like, if the fundamental theory doesn't encapsulate everything 
>>>>>>> done within computing ... then idk why u think the halting 
>>>>>>> problem should apply to modern computing???
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because it DOES present a limitation of what modern computers can do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After all, every non-computation can be converted into a 
>>>>>> computation by forcing all the "hidden inputs" to be considered as 
>>>>>> inputs.
>>>>>
>>>>> lol schrodinger's computation
>>>>
>>>> Model conversion.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This just shows the limitation in controlability of the interface.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If a new problem comes up, a new theory might be needed to 
>>>>>>>> handle it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> or maybe new techniques could rectify old problems ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> talk about a lack of curiosity. you confusing regurgitation of 
>>>>>>> route learning with actual intelligence, but i suppose that's all 
>>>>>>> u need working for a military contractor...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> military intelligence is an oxymoron, remember?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You might be surprised about that statement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't want a "smart bomb" locked onto you.
>>>>>
>>>>> they also don't want that if they know what's best for them
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All you are doing is showing your ignorance of what you are 
>>>>>>>>>> talking about.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Showing that you really don't understand what you are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talking about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems you just assume you are allowed to change the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition, perhaps because you never bothered to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is sort of like the problem with a RASP 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine architecture, sub- machines on such a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform are not necessarily computations, if they 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use the machines capability to pass information 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not allowed by the rules of a computation. Your 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RTM similarly break that property.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remember, Computations are NOT just what some 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> model of processing produce, but specifically is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> defined based on producing a specific mapping of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input to output, so if (even as a sub- machine) a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific input might produce different output, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your architecture is NOT doing a computation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And without that property, using what the machine 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could do, becomes a pretty worthless criteria, as 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you can't actually talk much about it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the output is still well-defined and deterministic 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at runtime,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not from the "input" to the piece of algorithm, as 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it includes "hidden" state from outside that input 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stored elsewhere in the machine.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> context-dependent computations are still 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computations. the fact TMs don't capture them is an 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indication that the ct- thesis may be false
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope. Not unless the "context" is made part of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "input", and if you do that, you find that since you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are trying to make it so the caller can't just 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> define that context, your system is less than turing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complete.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your system break to property of building a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computation by the concatination of sub-computations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...including a context-dependent sub-computation 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> makes ur overall computation context-dependent 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too ... if u dont want a context- dependent 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computation don't include context- dependent sub- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which makes it not a computation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PERIOD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fallacy of equivocation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i'm not shifting meaning dude. i'm directly claiming 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's a distinct type of computation that has been 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ignored by the theory of computing thus far
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nice try tho
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But you don't actually do that, as you then claim to be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the same field to solve a problem specified in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I said, if you want to try to define a new field 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based on a new definition of what a computation is, go 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's not a new field, it's a mild extension of turing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machines, with one new operation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, it is, as you are changing essential core defintions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is like saying that spherical geometery is the same 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field as plane geometry, we just added a small extension.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> what the did the nut say when it was all grown up???
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You need to work out your formal definition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Show how the system actually works out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Show what it can show.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And show why anyone would want to use it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but in order to be complete and coherent, certain 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computations *must* have context-awareness and are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> therefore context- dependent. these computations 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't generally computable by TMs because TMs lack 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the necessary mechanisms to grant context- awareness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, you require some computations to not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be actual computations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unless u can produce some actual proof of some 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computation that actually breaks in context- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dependence, rather than just listing things u assume 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are true, i won't believe u know what ur talking about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The definition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A computation produces the well defined result based 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the INPUT.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> context-dependent computation simply expands it's input 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to include the entire computing context, not just the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> formal parameters. it's still well defined and it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grants us access to meta computation that is not as 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expressible in TM computing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ct-thesis is cooked dude
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, because you are just putting yourself outside the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field it is written about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can't change the definition of a computation, and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still talk about things as if you were in the same system.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That just shows you are smoking some bad weed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your context, being not part of the input, can't 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change the well- defined result.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should 1 + 2 become 4 on Thursdays? of it asked of a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gingerbread man?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ur overgeneralizing. just become some computation is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> context- dependent doesn't mean all computation is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> context- dependent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another fallacy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, but nothing that actually is a computation can be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> context- dependent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ur just arguing in circles with this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, you are just lying to yourself to try to disagree with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the definition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All you are doing is saying you disagree with the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Go ahead, try to define an alternate version of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Computation Theory where the result can depend on 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things that aren't part of the actual input to the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine, and see what you can show that is useful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem becomes that you can't really say anything 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about what you will get, since you don't know what the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "hidden" factors are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ??? i was very clear multiple times over what the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "hidden" input was. there's nothing random about it, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> context- dependent computation is just as well-defend 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and deterministic as context- independent computation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem is that when you look at the computation 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> itself (that might be imbedded into a larger 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computation) you don't know which of the infinite 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contexts it might be within.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depth is not infinite for any given step,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't say infinite depth, I said from infinite contexts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AND THAT'S WHERE REFLECT COMES IN: IT DUMPS THE FULL 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MACHINE DESCRIPTION OF THE RUNNING MACHINE, THE CURRENT 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STATE NUMBER, AND A FULL COPY OF THE TAPE ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And WHICH machine description does it dump? The problem is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the machine description isn't unique.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the info required to compute all configurations 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between the beginning and the current step of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computation, which can allow it to compute anything that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is "knowable" about where it is in the computation at 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time of the REFLECT operation...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And where did it store that information?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remember, the starting tape was unbounded in length (but 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finite).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The machine itself is bounded in size, plus the unbounded 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tape.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the problem is ur literally not reading what i'm writing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to an appreciable degree of comprehension, being too 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> focused on isolated responses that lack overall 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *contextual* awareness of the conversation...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, you are ignoring the requirements to implement what 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you desire.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thus, what you can say about that "computation" is very 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't seem to understand that a key point of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theory is about being able to build complicate things 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from simpler pieces.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It comes out of how logic works, we build complicated 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theories based on simpler theories and the axioms. If 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those simplere things were "context dependent" it makes 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it much harder for them to specifiy what they actually 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do in all contexts, and to then use them in all contexts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i'm sorry context-dependent computation aren't as simple 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 🫩 🫩🫩
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which is why you need to actually FULLY DEFINE them, and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> admit it is a new field.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> well it'd be great if someone fucking helped me out there, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but all i get is a bunch adversarial dismissal cause i'm 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuck on a god forsaking planet of a fucking half-braindead 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> clowns
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Help has been offered, 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> not constructively, ur barely even paying attention to what i 
>>>>>>>>>>> write
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, perhaps the problem is I assume you at least attempt to 
>>>>>>>>>> learn what you are trying to talk about.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> u don't even know what constructive help is to be frank
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> i'm not ur student, ur not my teachers, this isn't a 
>>>>>>>>> hierarchical relationship,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and until u recognize that ur going to continue to be non- 
>>>>>>>>> constructive
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> YOU were the one asking for help to develop your ideas, if only 
>>>>>>>> by posting them and asking for comments.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have just pointed out the fundamental errors in your analysis
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You need to make a choice of directions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Either you work in the currently established theory, so you can 
>>>>>>>> use things in it, and see if you can develop something new.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or, you branch out and start a brand new theory, and start at 
>>>>>>>> the ground floor, fully define what you mean by things, show 
>>>>>>>> what you ideas can do, and why that would be useful.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> false dichotomy, add that to growing list of fallacies u shat out 
>>>>>>> at me
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No real dichotomy.
>>>>>
>>>>> no, i don't have to totally rewrite the system to transcend a few 
>>>>> classical limits.
>>>>
>>>> Sure you do. You need to figure out what might have changed.
>>>
>>> nothing about this change affect computation without REFLECT ... so 
>>> everything we already could compute is still computable.
>>
>> But only if you DON'T use reflect.
> 
> but so no power has been lost
> 
>>
>>>
>>> that fact that's not obvious to you is just u being willfully 
>>> ignorant at this point.
>>
>> The problem is, once your "machine" definition can do non- 
>> computations, you can't assume it does a computation, and thus your 
>> gaurenetees go away, so you can say less about what it does.
> 
> i think ur just pulling a definist fallacy. until u make it produce a 
> contradiction, i don't really care what u label it as.
> 
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Remove the first floor of your building and see what happens.
>>>
>>> false analogy! wow, another fallacy!
>>
>> Nope, that is EXACTLY what changing a foundational rule without seeing 
>> what it supported does.
>>
>> I guess you don't understand cause and effect.
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Follow the rules and you can stay in the system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Change anything and you are outside, and need to show what still 
>>>>>> can apply.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To say you can change the foundation but keep the building is just 
>>>>>> lying.
>>>>>
>>>>> you can in fact replace foundation without even lifting the house bro
>>>>
>>>> Not in logic.
>>>>
>>>> I guess you don't understand the use of figures of speach.
>>>
>>> or i just don't care for ur false analogy
>>
>> In other words, you don't understand what an analogy is.
>>
>> Too bad you are dooming yourself and your wife to starvation.
> 
> pretty nuts u think u need to keep bringing that up,
> 
> lol, u think ur on the right side here???
> 
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> i'm not invalidating most of computing, just gunning for a few 
>>>>> classical limits that don't actually do anything interesting 
>>>>> anyways. not really sure why people are to bent up about them
>>>>
>>>> And, if you don't understand what those changes do, you don't know 
>>>> if your system is valid.
>>>
>>> ur just commenting on how little u've tried to understand it
>>
>> I'm trying to get you off the wrong track.
> 
> and yet all u do is push me down the track further cause ain't accept ur 
> fallacies bro
> 
>>
>> What would you do if you saw someone cutting the branch they were 
>> sitting on, being outside the cut they were making.
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It seems you want to change the foundation, but keep most of the 
>>>>>>>> building on top, without even knowing how that building was 
>>>>>>>> built and how it connects to the foundation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That just doesn't work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> but you just reject it as it doesn't match your ideas, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> largely because you don't understand what you are trying to 
>>>>>>>>>>>> get in.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> When your errors are explained, just just curse back.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't fix stupid.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You aren't stuck on a planet of clowns, you are the clown 
>>>>>>>>>>>> that doesn't understand the world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if the simplest theory was always correct we'd still be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using newtonian gravity for everything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can't change a thing and it still be the same thing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess that truth is something you don't understand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> 
> 

Back to comp.theory | Previous | NextPrevious in thread | Next in thread | Find similar


Thread

Re: Proof that the halting problem itself is a category error Oleksiy Gapotchenko <alex.s.gap@gmail.com> - 2026-01-06 01:24 +0100
  Re: Proof that the halting problem itself is a category error olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-05 18:39 -0600
  is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-05 23:47 -0800
    Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-06 19:26 -0600
      Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-06 19:03 -0800
        Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-06 22:33 -0600
          Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-07 00:56 -0800
            yes/no questions lacking a correct yes/no answer are incorrect questions olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-07 05:50 -0600
          Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-12 07:12 -0500
        Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-12 07:06 -0500
          Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-12 14:09 -0800
            Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-12 22:16 -0500
              Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-12 20:21 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-13 07:09 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-13 12:33 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2026-01-14 02:41 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-13 19:38 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-14 22:43 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-15 04:23 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-15 22:28 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-16 01:08 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-16 11:46 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-16 14:21 -0800
                The essence of all Computation generically defined olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-16 16:58 -0600
                Re: The essence of all Computation generically defined Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-16 18:21 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-16 18:21 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-16 16:43 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-16 22:24 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-16 23:23 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-17 07:33 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-17 18:22 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-17 15:31 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-17 22:33 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-17 19:14 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-17 17:24 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-17 20:35 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-18 04:44 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-17 22:37 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 06:45 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-18 10:24 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 15:55 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-18 13:38 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 19:28 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-18 21:11 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-20 00:29 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-19 23:55 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-20 07:59 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-20 18:30 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-23 20:36 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 00:03 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 07:17 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 08:45 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 12:26 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 10:33 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 14:52 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 12:56 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 17:25 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 14:31 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 19:52 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 18:10 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 13:20 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-25 13:05 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 16:14 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-25 13:28 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 15:50 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-26 21:48 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-01-27 13:59 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-27 18:31 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-28 07:34 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-28 10:33 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-02-01 07:33 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-02-02 10:11 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-02-02 18:44 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-02-02 23:53 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-02-03 07:20 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-02-03 11:33 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-02-03 21:33 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-02-04 07:30 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-02-04 21:29 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-02-04 18:41 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-02-05 07:13 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-02-05 10:05 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-02-05 19:40 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-02-05 18:47 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-02-06 09:50 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-02-06 10:23 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-02-06 18:18 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-02-06 16:17 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-02-06 19:26 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-26 01:59 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 11:17 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 13:42 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 14:20 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 13:04 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-25 13:09 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-01-25 13:10 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-25 13:11 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 12:43 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-28 13:16 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 13:26 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-28 13:44 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-02-01 07:33 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 06:37 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-17 16:42 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-17 20:17 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-17 18:40 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-17 22:29 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-17 22:12 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 07:03 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-18 15:08 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 12:55 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-18 10:44 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 15:56 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-18 23:09 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-20 00:29 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-19 22:46 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-20 07:59 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-20 17:36 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-23 20:52 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 14:29 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 19:52 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 19:30 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 13:20 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-25 13:08 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 17:24 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-25 20:01 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 11:21 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-26 11:43 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-17 19:14 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-17 22:28 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-17 22:05 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 07:05 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-18 10:15 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 15:56 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-18 13:50 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-18 22:27 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-18 15:01 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 19:28 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-18 20:30 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-20 00:29 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-18 22:28 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 19:28 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-18 20:51 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-20 00:29 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-19 22:18 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-20 07:59 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-20 17:55 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-21 20:07 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 09:44 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 14:36 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 19:52 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 18:24 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 13:21 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-25 13:05 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 17:36 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-25 21:56 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 11:39 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-26 11:43 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 17:17 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-26 14:29 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Dude <punditster@gmail.com> - 2026-01-27 13:31 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-28 01:12 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Dude <punditster@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 13:29 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-28 13:37 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-01-27 14:07 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-28 07:23 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-21 19:57 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-18 22:21 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-17 12:17 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-17 08:15 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-17 18:27 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-17 15:31 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-17 09:47 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-17 15:31 -0500
                The essence of all Computation generically defined olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-16 18:35 -0600
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2026-01-17 01:28 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-17 10:52 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-17 22:45 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-17 17:20 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-17 20:30 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-17 18:23 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-17 22:47 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-18 00:28 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 07:28 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-18 10:10 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 15:56 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-18 14:55 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-18 11:03 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-18 10:59 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2026-01-18 02:49 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-17 19:15 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-18 11:12 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2026-01-20 00:50 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-21 20:10 +0000
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2026-01-23 01:40 +0000
    Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-07 14:05 +0200
      is the ct-thesis cooked, really? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-07 12:20 -0800
        Re: is the ct-thesis cooked, really? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-08 12:11 +0200
          Re: is the ct-thesis cooked, really? dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-10 11:04 -0800
      Exactly what are deciders in the theory of computation? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-07 15:29 -0600
    Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 17:06 -0600
      Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-24 19:52 -0500
        Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 18:05 -0800
          Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 13:23 -0500
            Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-25 13:04 -0800
              Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-25 17:40 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-25 22:50 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-26 01:35 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 11:43 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-26 11:45 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-26 17:28 -0500
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-27 00:00 -0800
        Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 20:35 -0600
          Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 18:38 -0800
            Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 20:53 -0600
              Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 19:12 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 21:42 -0600
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 20:03 -0800
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-24 22:06 -0600
                Re: is the ct-thesis cooked? PLO dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-01-24 21:45 -0800
  Re: Proof that the halting problem itself is a category error Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-06 15:23 +0200
    Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-06 08:02 -0600
      Re: Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-07 14:10 +0200
        Re: Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-07 07:06 -0600
          Re: Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-08 12:21 +0200
            Re: Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-08 08:18 -0600
              Re: Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-10 11:25 +0200
                Re: Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 10:19 -0600
                Re: Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 18:19 -0500
                Re: Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 18:16 -0600
                Re: Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-10 19:35 -0500
                Re: Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-10 19:59 -0600
                Re: Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-11 07:28 -0500
                Re: Boiling Gödel's 1931 Incompleteness proof down to its barest essence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-11 12:34 +0200

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