Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs)

Subject	Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs)
Newsgroups	comp.theory, comp.lang.c, comp.lang.c++, comp.ai.philosophy
References	(20 earlier) <vZ6dnbyiavkSaM7CnZ2dnUU7-KfNnZ2d@giganews.com> <MhT4H.242305$Av7.52541@fx34.iad> <p4mdnfUDr99Jl8nCnZ2dnUU78YvNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk> <rj18bh$olv$1@dont-email.me> <WHW4H.67365$tL.43282@fx15.iad>
From	olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com>
Date	2020-09-06 13:08 -0500
Message-ID	<Xq-dnQTPNfotuMjCnZ2dnUU7-R2dnZ2d@giganews.com> (permalink)

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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On 9/5/2020 8:12 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 9/5/20 7:52 PM, Jeff Barnett wrote:
>> On 9/5/2020 4:01 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
>>> On 05/09/2020 22:19, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 9/5/20 4:31 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 9/5/2020 3:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/5/20 3:16 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As long as the halt deciding code in HDC is the same in H and
>>>>>>> H_Hat and
>>>>>>> shows that its decision is correct then the Linz proof has been
>>>>>>> refuted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And how do you show the answer is correct when it is always wrong by
>>>>>> definition?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> When we actually see H correctly deciding an instance of H_Hat we find
>>>>> that prior understanding of the Halting Problem as impossible by
>>>>> definition is an incorrect understanding.
>>>>
>>>> So what does your machine do????
>>>>
>>>> I suspect, fail to meet the requirements.
>>>>>
>>>>>> If the HDC determines that H_Hat WILL halt, then H_Hat, by its
>>>>>> definition needs to infinitely loop, so the determination that it will
>>>>>> halt is incorrect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the HDC determines that H_Hat will not halt, then H_Hat, by its
>>>>>> definition needs to halt, then the determination that it will not halt
>>>>>> is incorrect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the HDC does not determine what will happen, it violates its
>>>>>> requirement as a HDC, and is thus incorrect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a loophole.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Only by redefining that you are solving a different problem using (I
>>>> suppose) some other fundamental axioms of logic. I hope that you have
>>>> fully examined your new axioms that you are working on.
>>>>
>>>> If you REALLY have a loophole in the proof, because the proof is so
>>>> simple, the loophole should have a fairly simple description. A wildly
>>>> complicated counter is certainly going to be like the proofs of 1 == 2
>>>> that rely on hiding a division by 0 in them.
>>>>
>>>> My guess is you have missed some characteristic of true Turing Machines
>>>> (which can't physically exist as they have potentially infinite memory).
>>>> It is well known that the Halting problem CAN be solved for a memory
>>>> limited Turing Machine, even by another memory limited (but much bigger
>>>> memory) Turing Machine.
>>>>
>>>> My first guess is either you have that sort of flaw, or you are failing
>>>> to provide the answer in true Finite time.
>>>>
>>>
>>> My guess would be that he's not properly understood the relation
>>> between H (the decider) and H_Hat (the test case).  Either his H_Hat
>>> will be wildly off in relationship to H, or the correspondence will be
>>> broken in some more subtle (but not that subtle!) way.  E.g. he could
>>> "cheat" through H being passed some kind of hidden input other than
>>> its legitimate input (H^Hat, H_Hat), enabling it to behave differently
>>> when it's invoked internally within H_Hat.  (Input from global
>>> variables? Something in his emulator implementation? ...)
>>
>> Experience has shown he's not intelligent enough to make those kind of
>> mistakes unless utterly by accident. Also there is a lot of troll in him
>> and the only detectable trait is that he wants people to respond to his
>> inanities. Just remember that he claimed to have all of this ready to
>> go, i.e. coded, around two years ago - lies of course - and this is all
>> a rearguard action to cover his ego. In other, words don't expect to
>> ever see a TM or equivalent encoding for H.
>>
>>> But he's not going to give any details, so we'll just have to wait and
>>> see...
> 
> My first guess, is that he somehow thinks that if H doesn't say Halted,
> that is good enough to be considered as the 'Not Halting' answer, when
> of course it isn't. That or some other 'small' change to the ground
> rules, that would actually allow H to be something trivial or
> uninteresting, so proving that this modified H can exist actully means
> nothing.
> 

I explain the architecture of my solution here:
http://www.liarparadox.org/Linz_Diagrams.pdf

-- 
Copyright 2020 Pete Olcott

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Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V37 (Turing complete) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-21 00:17 -0500
  Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V37 (Turing complete) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-21 11:20 +0100
    Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V46 (x86 Turing is complete) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-21 09:31 -0500
      Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V46 (x86 Turing is complete) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-08-21 12:17 -0600
        Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V46 (x86 Turing is complete) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-21 13:46 -0500
          Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V46 (x86 Turing is complete) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-08-21 14:14 -0600
            Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V46 (x86 Turing is complete) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-21 16:27 -0500
      Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V46 (x86 Turing is complete) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-22 01:10 +0100
    Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V37 (Turing complete) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-21 19:31 -0500
      Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V37 (Turing complete) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-22 03:06 +0100
        Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V37 (Turing complete) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-21 21:19 -0500
          Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V37 (Turing complete) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-21 19:47 -0700
            Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V37 (Turing complete) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-21 22:00 -0500
              Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V37 (Turing complete) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-21 20:12 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V37 (Turing complete) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-21 22:22 -0500
            Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V37 (Turing complete) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-21 22:19 -0500
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            Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V37 (Turing complete) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-22 10:31 -0500
              Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V37 (Turing complete) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-22 22:24 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V37 (Turing complete) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-22 17:26 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V37 (Turing complete) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-22 23:36 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V37 (Turing complete) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-22 18:32 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V37 (Turing complete) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-23 02:04 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V37 (Turing complete) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-22 22:42 -0500
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                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V47 (x86 really is Turing complete) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-26 22:37 +0100
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                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V47 (x86 really is Turing complete) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-08-28 22:34 -0600
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                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V50 (Can "C" be made Turing complete?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-29 14:01 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V50 (Can "C" be made Turing complete?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-29 20:03 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V50 (Can "C" be made Turing complete?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-29 14:48 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V50 (Can "C" be made Turing complete?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-29 21:35 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V50 (Can "C" be made Turing complete?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-29 16:00 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V50 (Can "C" be made Turing complete?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-29 23:32 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V50 (Can "C" be made Turing complete?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-29 18:20 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V50 (Can "C" be made Turing complete?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-30 02:24 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V50 (Can "C" be made Turing complete?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-29 21:17 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V50 (Can "C" be made Turing complete?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-08-29 23:15 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V50 (Can "C" be made Turing complete?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-08-29 22:57 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V50 (Can "C" be made Turing complete?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-29 22:13 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V50 (Can "C" be made Turing complete?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-08-29 23:27 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V50 (Can "C" be made Turing complete?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 03:27 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V50 (Can "C" be made Turing complete?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-29 16:26 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V50 (Can "C" be made Turing complete?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-29 23:53 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V50 (Can "C" be made Turing complete?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-29 18:33 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V50 (Can "C" be made Turing complete?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-30 02:35 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V50 (Can "C" be made Turing complete?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-29 21:36 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V50 (Can "C" be made Turing complete?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-30 15:38 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V51 (Making "C" Turing equivalent) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-30 11:42 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V51 (Making "C" Turing equivalent) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-30 20:05 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V51 (Making "C" Turing equivalent) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-30 14:17 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-30 14:37 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 13:10 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-30 15:19 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-08-30 14:22 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-30 16:58 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-31 02:48 +0100
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2020-08-31 02:08 +0000
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2020-08-31 09:49 +0100
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2020-08-31 13:59 +0000
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2020-08-31 16:13 +0100
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2020-08-31 15:24 +0000
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-31 19:26 +0100
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2020-08-31 21:37 +0000
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-31 23:56 +0100
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2020-08-31 23:10 +0000
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-01 02:28 +0100
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2020-09-01 02:02 +0000
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-01 03:16 +0100
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2020-09-01 02:29 +0000
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-31 08:58 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-01 00:04 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-02 09:55 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-02 12:03 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-03 06:12 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 09:46 -0500
                Re: Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) kegs@provalid.com (Kent Dickey) - 2020-09-03 14:23 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2020-09-03 21:28 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 16:51 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2020-09-03 23:20 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 17:31 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2020-09-04 01:56 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 20:15 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 20:29 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2020-09-04 02:47 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 21:08 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-04 03:52 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 22:15 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 22:41 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-04 05:14 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 23:37 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 15:28 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 16:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-03 16:13 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 12:05 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-04 02:50 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 22:02 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-04 05:05 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 23:42 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-04 11:48 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 08:41 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-04 17:04 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 11:36 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-04 22:29 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 14:42 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-04 22:53 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 17:51 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-05 02:25 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 20:34 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-05 23:58 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-09-05 17:59 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 20:58 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-04 22:50 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 00:21 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-05 09:49 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 09:34 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-05 11:03 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 11:20 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-05 10:40 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 12:12 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-05 11:42 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 13:17 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-05 12:33 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 14:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-05 16:19 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 15:31 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-05 17:19 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2020-09-05 23:01 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-09-05 17:52 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-05 21:12 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-06 02:32 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 13:08 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 21:49 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2020-09-06 04:35 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 22:50 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 22:58 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 08:47 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 11:42 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-06 11:43 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 13:04 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 16:07 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 15:14 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-06 21:42 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 16:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 14:18 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 13:32 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-06 12:59 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 14:18 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-06 13:37 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 14:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-06 14:02 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 15:22 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 17:02 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 16:22 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 18:19 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 17:39 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 20:23 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 20:23 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 21:51 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 21:10 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-07 00:59 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 21:02 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 22:51 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 22:10 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-05 15:29 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-05 15:52 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-06 00:05 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-05 15:28 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-05 23:09 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 00:40 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-06 02:25 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-04 22:45 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 00:06 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-05 00:03 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 09:20 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-05 09:34 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 11:32 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-05 10:48 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 12:21 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-05 23:18 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 12:47 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 08:51 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-04 17:11 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 11:39 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-09-03 22:44 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> - 2020-09-04 11:09 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 13:34 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2020-08-31 00:23 +0100
                Transforming "C" into a Turing equivalent language 001 [Providing unlimited memory access to C] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-30 19:17 -0500
                Re: Transforming "C" into a Turing equivalent language 001 [Providing unlimited memory access to C] Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2020-08-31 09:59 +0100
                Re: Transforming "C" into a Turing equivalent language 001 [Providing unlimited memory access to C] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-31 08:47 -0500
                Re: Transforming "C" into a Turing equivalent language 001 [Providing unlimited memory access to C] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-02 09:58 -0500
                Re: Transforming "C" into a Turing equivalent language 001 [Providing unlimited memory access to C] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-03 03:37 +0100
                Re: Transforming "C" into a Turing equivalent language 001 [Providing unlimited memory access to C] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-02 21:50 -0500
                Re: Transforming "C" into a Turing equivalent language 001 [Providing unlimited memory access to C] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-02 22:04 -0500
                Re: Transforming "C" into a Turing equivalent language 007 [Mapping x86 to Turing Equivalent] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-02 22:30 -0500
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2020-08-31 02:16 +0000
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-30 20:43 -0400
                Transforming "C" into a Turing equivalent language 001 [Providing unlimited memory access to C] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-30 20:21 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V47 (x86 really is Turing complete) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-08-30 07:27 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V51 (Making "C" Turing equivalent) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-30 10:21 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V47 (x86 really is Turing complete) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-29 01:24 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V50 (Making "C" Turing complete) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-25 14:51 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V47 (x86 really is Turing complete) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-23 10:18 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V47 (x86 really is Turing complete) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-23 17:51 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V47 (x86 really is Turing complete) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-23 12:29 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V47 (x86 really is Turing complete) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-23 22:12 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V47 (x86 really is Turing complete) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-23 16:23 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V37 (Turing complete) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-22 16:19 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V46 (Honest dialogue?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-22 18:46 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V46 (Honest dialogue?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-22 17:55 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V46 (Honest dialogue?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-22 20:14 -0500

csiph-web