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Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic

From olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.theory, sci.logic, sci.math, comp.ai.philosophy
Subject Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic
Date 2026-01-19 20:39 -0600
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <10kmptb$sipn$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <10kgto8$2s9mj$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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On 1/17/2026 3:08 PM, olcott wrote:
> For nearly a century, discussions of arithmetic have quietly
> relied on a fundamental conflation: the idea that
> “true in arithmetic” meant “true in the standard model of ℕ.”
> But PA itself has no truth predicate, no internal semantics,
> and no mechanism for assigning truth values. So what was
> called “true in arithmetic” was always meta-theoretic truth
> about arithmetic, imported from an external model and never
> grounded inside PA.
> 
> This conflation was rarely acknowledged, and it shaped the
> interpretation of Gödel’s incompleteness theorems, independence
> results like Goodstein and Paris–Harrington, and the entire
> discourse around “true but unprovable” statements.
> 
> My work begins by correcting this foundational error.
> 
> PA has no internal truth predicate, so classical claims of
> “true in arithmetic” were always meta-theoretic. My system
> introduces a truth predicate whose meaning is anchored
> entirely in PA’s axioms and inference rules, not in external
> models. Any statement whose meaning requires meta-theoretic
> interpretation or non-well-founded self-reference is rejected
> as outside the domain of PA. This yields a coherent, internal
> notion of truth in arithmetic for the first time.
> 

The only reason that anyone ever suggested an external measure of truth 
as a proxy for actual truth <in> PA is because PA did not have its own 
truth predicate. I fixed that anchored in PA's own axioms. Now we can 
see that an external measure of true <in> PA was never actually true 
<in> PA at all. It was true about PA one level of indirect reference 
away from true in PA. It was incorrectly conflated with true in PA 
because no one saw any other alternatives.

∀x ∈ PA ((True(PA, x)  ≡ (PA ⊢ x))
∀x ∈ PA ((False(PA, x) ≡ (PA ⊢ ~x))
∀x ∈ PA (~TruthBearer(PA, x) ≡ (~True(PA, x) ∧ (~False(PA, x))


-- 
Copyright 2026 Olcott<br><br>

My 28 year goal has been to make <br>
"true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"<br>
reliably computable.<br><br>

This required establishing a new foundation<br>

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Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-17 15:08 -0600
  Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-17 16:54 -0500
    Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-17 16:50 -0600
      Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-17 19:14 -0500
        Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-17 18:49 -0600
          Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-17 20:20 -0500
            Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-17 19:30 -0600
              Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-17 20:46 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-17 19:59 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-17 22:20 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-17 21:59 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-17 23:13 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-17 22:38 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 12:37 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-18 12:38 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 15:55 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-18 15:49 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 18:28 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-18 17:41 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-18 19:28 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-18 21:17 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-20 00:29 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-20 10:50 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-20 23:00 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-18 21:19 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-18 22:56 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-18 22:28 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-19 06:49 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-19 08:43 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-20 00:29 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-20 15:23 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-20 23:04 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-20 22:54 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-21 07:35 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-21 09:45 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-21 22:37 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-21 21:53 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Python <python@cccp.invalid> - 2026-01-22 04:59 +0000
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-21 23:18 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-22 19:17 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-22 18:33 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-01-22 21:51 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-22 22:18 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-23 20:33 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-22 19:15 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-19 13:20 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-20 00:29 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-20 14:00 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-20 23:12 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-20 23:08 +0000
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-20 17:33 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-22 19:23 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-22 18:49 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-22 19:05 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-22 21:48 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-22 19:30 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-23 00:23 +0000
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-22 18:29 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-01-23 01:15 +0000
                Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-22 19:38 -0600
  Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-01-18 12:09 +0200
  Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-19 20:39 -0600
    Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-20 00:29 -0500
      Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-20 15:39 -0600
        Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-01-20 23:21 -0500
        Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 12:17 -0600
          Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-02-01 07:33 -0500
      Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-01-28 12:08 -0600
        Re: Gödel's G has never actually been true in arithmetic Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2026-02-01 07:33 -0500

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