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[RUMOUR] R.I.P. Mac Pro ??

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  [RUMOUR] R.I.P. Mac Pro ?? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-11-18 15:14 +1300
    Re: [RUMOUR] R.I.P. Mac Pro ?? Tyrone <none@none.none> - 2025-11-18 04:53 +0000
      Re: [RUMOUR] R.I.P. Mac Pro ?? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-11-18 18:33 +1300
        Re: [RUMOUR] R.I.P. Mac Pro ?? Tyrone <none@none.none> - 2025-11-18 22:28 +0000
          Re: [RUMOUR] R.I.P. Mac Pro ?? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-11-19 16:20 +1300
            Re: [RUMOUR] R.I.P. Mac Pro ?? Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2025-11-19 11:26 +0100
            Re: [RUMOUR] R.I.P. Mac Pro ?? Tyrone <none@none.none> - 2025-11-19 15:47 +0000
              Re: [RUMOUR] R.I.P. Mac Pro ?? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-11-20 10:34 +1300
                Re: [RUMOUR] R.I.P. Mac Pro ?? Tyrone <none@none.none> - 2025-12-02 04:14 +0000
                  Re: [RUMOUR] R.I.P. Mac Pro ?? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-12-02 18:14 +1300
          Re: [RUMOUR] R.I.P. Mac Pro ?? Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2025-11-19 11:21 +0100
    Re: [RUMOUR] R.I.P. Mac Pro ?? Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2025-12-13 12:09 -0500

#9354 — [RUMOUR] R.I.P. Mac Pro ??

In the age of Apple Silicon the Mac Pro has been become a pretty 
pointless device thanks to having almost nothing that is upgradable - 
all you can really do is add more internal drives (which, considering 
Apple's rather stingy and high-priced built-in drives, was its only 
plus point). The number of people who need a PCI / similar slot for 
anything else is pretty miniscule these days.


    The Mac Pro Is Dead, Long Live the Mac Studio
    ---------------------------------------------
    The tower has fallen. Apple's pro desktop future now revolves
    around the Mac Studio.

    Earlier this month, a new report outlined Apple's expected 2026
    Mac lineup. While it included all the usual suspects - from the
    MacBook Pro to the Mac mini - there were a couple of conspicuous
    omissions: the iMac and the Mac Pro.

    While the iMac's absence might simply reflect Apple's staggered
    update cycle, the lack of any news on the Mac Pro feels more
    ominous, and now Bloomberg's Mark Gurman has confirmed that
    Apple may be preparing to put its beastliest machine out to
    pasture.

    The Mac Pro has already had a strange and storied history. The
    first model arrived in 2006 as a successor to the Power Mac G5,
    rounding out Apple's transition from the PowerPC era with a new
    desktop powerhouse based on an Intel Xeon chip. From 2006 to
    2012, it received four CPU bumps, but otherwise retained the
    same design it had borrowed from its PowerPC predecessor.

    In 2013, Apple changed things up, sparking controversy with a
    completely redesigned cylindrical version that became known as
    the "trash can" Mac Pro. While the design was attractive, it was
    a case of form over function, as the 2013 model was a
    self-contained unit that was neither upgradeable nor expandable.
    Ironically, the more versatile 2006 Mac Pro could match the 2013
    model's specs with aftermarket upgrades.

    In 2017, Apple tacitly admitted that the Mac Pro was a bad idea
    and promised to do better. It released the iMac Pro later that
    year to tide pro customers over until it could finish a properly
    redesigned Mac Pro that would reflect the spirit of the original.
    In late 2019, it delivered the most powerful Mac ever - with a
    price tag to match.

    This Mac Pro would also turn out to signal the end of an era.
    Less than a year later, everything changed when Apple unveiled
    its M1 chip, enabling a base model 13-inch MacBook Pro to beat
    out the entry-level Mac Pro in at least some basic scenarios.

    When the souped-up versions of those chips - the M1 Pro and M1 Max
    - arrived the following year, it was clear the days of the Intel
    Mac Pro were numbered. Apple's high-end 14-inch and 16-inch
    MacBook Pro models had many of the features of the Mac Pro's
    Afterburner card - an optional and pricey add-on - built right in,
    and were powerful enough to let users edit multiple streams of 4K
    and 8K video with just a fraction of the power consumption of an
    Intel Mac.

    Of course, that arguably wasn't a problem, as everyone knew a more
    powerful Mac Pro was coming. Apple had promised to give its entire
    lineup the Apple Silicon treatment, and rumors of an M1 Ultra chip
    hinted at staggering levels of performance - and possibly even a
    successor to the iMac Pro as well.

    Instead, Apple threw us a curveball. Since its M-series chips were
    significantly more efficient than their Intel counterparts, they
    didn't require massive cases and fans to stay cool, which made a
    Mac Pro-style tower feel increasingly like a relic of the Intel era.
    Apple decided to prove that "powerful" doesn't have to mean "big"
    and gave us the Mac Studio instead.

    While Apple's M1-powered Macs could already hold their own against
    most 2019 Mac Pro configurations, the Mac Studio's M1 Ultra left
    them in the dust. With two M1 Max chips stacked together, it
    outperformed Apple's $20,000 28-core Mac Pro at a fifth of the price
    and a fraction of the size.

    Not for the first time, many found themselves questioning the
    Mac Pro's future, especially when 2022 came and went without a new
    Mac Pro. However, Apple had promised to bring all of its Intel Macs
    into the realm of Apple Silicon, and that's a promise it intended to
    keep.

    During its June 2023 Worldwide Developers Conference (WWDC), Apple
    unveiled a next-generation Mac Studio featuring the M2 Ultra chip - 
    this time, accompanied by a new Mac Pro.

    In theory, the Apple Silicon Mac Pro would address the biggest
    complaint about the Mac Studio: the lack of expandability. In
    reality, the new system showed how much Apple had left the Intel
    world behind. Sure, it had the PCIe expansion slots that high-end
    users demanded, but there wasn't much you could actually put into
    them. No support for external GPUs. No upgradeable RAM thanks to
    unified memory. What you bought was what you got.

    Since the Mac Studio featured the same M2 Ultra chip, it could
    deliver the same performance in a smaller package. The Mac Pro had
    a better cooling system, which should have offered better sustained
    performance, but most tests revealed it made no practical
    difference.

    In the end, most folks legitimately questioned the very existence of
    the M2 Mac Pro. It felt like a solution for a problem nobody had,
    and Gurman's sources say that Apple has come to the same conclusion.

    "From what I've heard inside the company, Apple has largely written
     off the Mac Pro. The sentiment internally is that the Mac Studio
     now represents both the present and future of Apple's professional
     desktop strategy."
                       - Mark Gurman

    Perhaps Apple's strategy was merely transitional in the first place 
    - to prove to folks who thought they needed a Mac Pro that the
    Mac Studio was every bit as capable. Either way, the Mac Studio has
    already moved on to an M3 Ultra chip, and it appears it will walk
    this new path alone. Gurman reports that a theoretical M4 Ultra chip
    - and the Mac Pro it would have powered - has been nixed. Instead,
    Apple is focusing on a next-gen M5 Ultra chip, which is reportedly
    destined solely for a future Mac Studio.

    While we're hesitant to ever say never - Apple rarely closes these
    doors entirely - this could very well be the Mac Pro's final curtain
    - and a symbolic step into a new era of computing where bigger
    doesn't mean better.


    
<https://www.idropnews.com/news/the-mac-pro-is-dead-long-live-the-mac-studio/255692/> 



    

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#9355

On Nov 17, 2025 at 9:14:15 PM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> 
> In the age of Apple Silicon the Mac Pro has been become a pretty
> pointless device thanks to having almost nothing that is upgradable -
> all you can really do is add more internal drives (which, considering
> Apple's rather stingy and high-priced built-in drives, was its only
> plus point). The number of people who need a PCI / similar slot for
> anything else is pretty miniscule these days.

Makes sense. The big ugly tower with roaring fans and "slots" is a relic of
the Intel/Motorola/Power PC stone age. The huge motherboard with RAM here and
CPU over there and "slots" way over there is so 30 years ago. 

Everything integrated on a single chip is the present and the future. It is
faster, uses WAY less power, generates WAY less heat and fits into a MUCH
smaller case that MIGHT need a single, whisper-quiet, low-speed fan. 

Plus, no other consumer product is "upgradeable".  TVs, microwave ovens,
refrigerators, cars, furniture, phones, watches, speakers, headphones etc. 
You buy what you need now and can afford now. 

You want/need more later?   Buy a new, bigger one and sell the old one. 

There was a time (50 years ago) when "personal computers" were built using
hundreds of discrete chips.  In the S-100 slot days, you had a CPU board, RAM
board(s) and multiple I/O boards (serial, parallel, video, floppy disk, hard
disk etc). These boards were each the size of a current "motherboard". 

Now it is all on a single chip.  Get over it.  Move on.

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#9356

On 2025-11-18 04:53:50 +0000, Tyrone said:
> On Nov 17, 2025 at 9:14:15 PM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>> 
>> In the age of Apple Silicon the Mac Pro has been become a pretty
>> pointless device thanks to having almost nothing that is upgradable -
>> all you can really do is add more internal drives (which, considering
>> Apple's rather stingy and high-priced built-in drives, was its only
>> plus point). The number of people who need a PCI / similar slot for
>> anything else is pretty miniscule these days.
> 
> Makes sense. The big ugly tower with roaring fans and "slots" is a relic of
> the Intel/Motorola/Power PC stone age. The huge motherboard with RAM here and
> CPU over there and "slots" way over there is so 30 years ago.
> 
> Everything integrated on a single chip is the present and the future. It is
> faster, uses WAY less power, generates WAY less heat and fits into a MUCH
> smaller case that MIGHT need a single, whisper-quiet, low-speed fan.
> 
> Plus, no other consumer product is "upgradeable".  TVs, microwave ovens,
> refrigerators, cars, furniture, phones, watches, speakers, headphones etc.
> You buy what you need now and can afford now.
> 
> You want/need more later?   Buy a new, bigger one and sell the old one.

Unfortunately that is the stupidity of today's selfish "throw away" 
society. In the long run it makes no real sense because it is more 
wasteful, more expensive, and uses up far more resources.  :-(




> There was a time (50 years ago) when "personal computers" were built using
> hundreds of discrete chips.  In the S-100 slot days, you had a CPU board, RAM
> board(s) and multiple I/O boards (serial, parallel, video, floppy disk, hard
> disk etc). These boards were each the size of a current "motherboard".
> 
> Now it is all on a single chip.  Get over it.  Move on.

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#9357

On Nov 18, 2025 at 12:33:13 AM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> On 2025-11-18 04:53:50 +0000, Tyrone said:
>> On Nov 17, 2025 at 9:14:15 PM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> In the age of Apple Silicon the Mac Pro has been become a pretty
>>> pointless device thanks to having almost nothing that is upgradable -
>>> all you can really do is add more internal drives (which, considering
>>> Apple's rather stingy and high-priced built-in drives, was its only
>>> plus point). The number of people who need a PCI / similar slot for
>>> anything else is pretty miniscule these days.
>> 
>> Makes sense. The big ugly tower with roaring fans and "slots" is a relic of
>> the Intel/Motorola/Power PC stone age. The huge motherboard with RAM here and
>> CPU over there and "slots" way over there is so 30 years ago.
>> 
>> Everything integrated on a single chip is the present and the future. It is
>> faster, uses WAY less power, generates WAY less heat and fits into a MUCH
>> smaller case that MIGHT need a single, whisper-quiet, low-speed fan.
>> 
>> Plus, no other consumer product is "upgradeable".  TVs, microwave ovens,
>> refrigerators, cars, furniture, phones, watches, speakers, headphones etc.
>> You buy what you need now and can afford now.
>> 
>> You want/need more later?   Buy a new, bigger one and sell the old one.
> 
> Unfortunately that is the stupidity of today's selfish "throw away"
> society. In the long run it makes no real sense because it is more
> wasteful, more expensive, and uses up far more resources.  :-(\

I did not say "throw it away".  I said sell it on eBay to help defray the cost
of the new one.    

Also, a single chip is WAY less wasteful than hundreds of separate chips on
multiple huge boards. Those boards were each the size of a 14" screen today. 
Could be even larger. Talk about waste.

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#9358

On 2025-11-18 22:28:57 +0000, Tyrone said:
> On Nov 18, 2025 at 12:33:13 AM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>> On 2025-11-18 04:53:50 +0000, Tyrone said:
>>> On Nov 17, 2025 at 9:14:15 PM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> In the age of Apple Silicon the Mac Pro has been become a pretty
>>>> pointless device thanks to having almost nothing that is upgradable -
>>>> all you can really do is add more internal drives (which, considering
>>>> Apple's rather stingy and high-priced built-in drives, was its only
>>>> plus point). The number of people who need a PCI / similar slot for
>>>> anything else is pretty miniscule these days.
>>> 
>>> Makes sense. The big ugly tower with roaring fans and "slots" is a 
>>> relic of the Intel/Motorola/Power PC stone age. The huge motherboard 
>>> with RAM here and CPU over there and "slots" way over there is so 30 
>>> years ago.
>>> 
>>> Everything integrated on a single chip is the present and the future. 
>>> It is faster, uses WAY less power, generates WAY less heat and fits 
>>> into a MUCH smaller case that MIGHT need a single, whisper-quiet, 
>>> low-speed fan.
>>> 
>>> Plus, no other consumer product is "upgradeable".  TVs, microwave ovens,
>>> refrigerators, cars, furniture, phones, watches, speakers, headphones etc.
>>> You buy what you need now and can afford now.
>>> 
>>> You want/need more later?   Buy a new, bigger one and sell the old one.
>> 
>> Unfortunately that is the stupidity of today's selfish "throw away"
>> society. In the long run it makes no real sense because it is more
>> wasteful, more expensive, and uses up far more resources.  :-(\
> 
> I did not say "throw it away".  I said sell it on eBay to help defray the cost
> of the new one.

It's still getting rid of things, instead of upgrading or repairing 
things ... hence "throw away siciety".



> Also, a single chip is WAY less wasteful than hundreds of separate chips on
> multiple huge boards. Those boards were each the size of a 14" screen today.
> Could be even larger. Talk about waste.

Wasteful in the sense that you can't upgrade the CPU, GPU, RAM, etc., 
so the whole device has to be gotten rid of and a whole new one bought.

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#9360

On 19.11.25 04:20, Your Name wrote:
> On 2025-11-18 22:28:57 +0000, Tyrone said:
>> On Nov 18, 2025 at 12:33:13 AM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>> On 2025-11-18 04:53:50 +0000, Tyrone said:
>>>> On Nov 17, 2025 at 9:14:15 PM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> In the age of Apple Silicon the Mac Pro has been become a pretty
>>>>> pointless device thanks to having almost nothing that is upgradable -
>>>>> all you can really do is add more internal drives (which, considering
>>>>> Apple's rather stingy and high-priced built-in drives, was its only
>>>>> plus point). The number of people who need a PCI / similar slot for
>>>>> anything else is pretty miniscule these days.
>>>>
>>>> Makes sense. The big ugly tower with roaring fans and "slots" is a
>>>> relic of the Intel/Motorola/Power PC stone age. The huge motherboard
>>>> with RAM here and CPU over there and "slots" way over there is so 30
>>>> years ago.
>>>>
>>>> Everything integrated on a single chip is the present and the future.
>>>> It is faster, uses WAY less power, generates WAY less heat and fits
>>>> into a MUCH smaller case that MIGHT need a single, whisper-quiet,
>>>> low-speed fan.
>>>>
>>>> Plus, no other consumer product is "upgradeable".  TVs, microwave ovens,
>>>> refrigerators, cars, furniture, phones, watches, speakers, headphones etc.
>>>> You buy what you need now and can afford now.
>>>>
>>>> You want/need more later?   Buy a new, bigger one and sell the old one.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately that is the stupidity of today's selfish "throw away"
>>> society. In the long run it makes no real sense because it is more
>>> wasteful, more expensive, and uses up far more resources.  :-(\
>>
>> I did not say "throw it away".  I said sell it on eBay to help defray the cost
>> of the new one.
> 
> It's still getting rid of things, instead of upgrading or repairing
> things ... hence "throw away siciety".
> 
> 
> 
>> Also, a single chip is WAY less wasteful than hundreds of separate chips on
>> multiple huge boards. Those boards were each the size of a 14" screen today.
>> Could be even larger. Talk about waste.
> 
> Wasteful in the sense that you can't upgrade the CPU, GPU, RAM, etc.,
> so the whole device has to be gotten rid of and a whole new one bought.

With upgrades you can reduce the pain but not solve problems: Moore's 
law says that the performance of computers doubles every 18 months. 
After 2 cycles the mobo is outdated.

The concept of PC-towers died 20 years ago except for some very specific 
and borderline applications like *hardcore gaming* for instance.


-- 
"Roma locuta, causa finita" (Augustinus)

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#9361

On Nov 18, 2025 at 10:20:13 PM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> On 2025-11-18 22:28:57 +0000, Tyrone said:
>> On Nov 18, 2025 at 12:33:13 AM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>> On 2025-11-18 04:53:50 +0000, Tyrone said:
>>>> On Nov 17, 2025 at 9:14:15 PM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> In the age of Apple Silicon the Mac Pro has been become a pretty
>>>>> pointless device thanks to having almost nothing that is upgradable -
>>>>> all you can really do is add more internal drives (which, considering
>>>>> Apple's rather stingy and high-priced built-in drives, was its only
>>>>> plus point). The number of people who need a PCI / similar slot for
>>>>> anything else is pretty miniscule these days.
>>>> 
>>>> Makes sense. The big ugly tower with roaring fans and "slots" is a
>>>> relic of the Intel/Motorola/Power PC stone age. The huge motherboard
>>>> with RAM here and CPU over there and "slots" way over there is so 30
>>>> years ago.
>>>> 
>>>> Everything integrated on a single chip is the present and the future.
>>>> It is faster, uses WAY less power, generates WAY less heat and fits
>>>> into a MUCH smaller case that MIGHT need a single, whisper-quiet,
>>>> low-speed fan.
>>>> 
>>>> Plus, no other consumer product is "upgradeable".  TVs, microwave ovens,
>>>> refrigerators, cars, furniture, phones, watches, speakers, headphones etc.
>>>> You buy what you need now and can afford now.
>>>> 
>>>> You want/need more later?   Buy a new, bigger one and sell the old one.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately that is the stupidity of today's selfish "throw away"
>>> society. In the long run it makes no real sense because it is more
>>> wasteful, more expensive, and uses up far more resources.  :-(\
>> 
>> I did not say "throw it away".  I said sell it on eBay to help defray the cost
>> of the new one.
> 
> It's still getting rid of things, instead of upgrading or repairing
> things ... hence "throw away siciety".

Selling something is not "getting rid of things".  Someone ELSE is now using
it. I bought this M2 MacBook Pro used on eBay 2 years ago. It was about 6
months old when I got it AND it was $900 less than a new one AND it was free
shipping AND it was in pristine condition. That is called "recycling" on the
seller's part AND smart buying on my part. It is NOT "wasted". Selling things
you no longer need/want is NOT a "throw away society". Because nothing is
thrown away.

> 
>> Also, a single chip is WAY less wasteful than hundreds of separate chips on
>> multiple huge boards. Those boards were each the size of a 14" screen today.
>> Could be even larger. Talk about waste.
> 
> Wasteful in the sense that you can't upgrade the CPU, GPU, RAM, etc.,
> so the whole device has to be gotten rid of and a whole new one bought.

Again, not wasteful. You UPGRADE the whole thing instead of separate pieces. 
Then you sell the old one to someone who can't afford a new one. Which will
also be an UPGRADE to them. Everyone is happy. Nothing is wasted. Now there
are 2 people with a new Mac/phone/TV whatever. 

The waste comes from upgrading the CPU/RAM and then throwing away the old
CPU/RAM.  Who is going to buy used RAM chips?

We have sold all kinds of household stuff.  Sofas, chairs, TVs etc. Even an
upright piano. Put an ad in the local Penny Saver (or whatever you have)
magazine. Ask $150 (or whatever). Someone will offer $100 (whatever) and you
agree. They come and pick it up. 

Again, nothing is wasted.   Everyone involved is happy.

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#9362

On 2025-11-19 15:47:01 +0000, Tyrone said:
> On Nov 18, 2025 at 10:20:13 PM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>> On 2025-11-18 22:28:57 +0000, Tyrone said:
>>> On Nov 18, 2025 at 12:33:13 AM EST, "Your Name" 
>>> <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2025-11-18 04:53:50 +0000, Tyrone said:
>>>>> On Nov 17, 2025 at 9:14:15 PM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In the age of Apple Silicon the Mac Pro has been become a pretty
>>>>>> pointless device thanks to having almost nothing that is upgradable -
>>>>>> all you can really do is add more internal drives (which, considering
>>>>>> Apple's rather stingy and high-priced built-in drives, was its only
>>>>>> plus point). The number of people who need a PCI / similar slot for
>>>>>> anything else is pretty miniscule these days.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Makes sense. The big ugly tower with roaring fans and "slots" is a
>>>>> relic of the Intel/Motorola/Power PC stone age. The huge motherboard
>>>>> with RAM here and CPU over there and "slots" way over there is so 30
>>>>> years ago.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Everything integrated on a single chip is the present and the future.
>>>>> It is faster, uses WAY less power, generates WAY less heat and fits
>>>>> into a MUCH smaller case that MIGHT need a single, whisper-quiet,
>>>>> low-speed fan.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Plus, no other consumer product is "upgradeable".  TVs, microwave ovens,
>>>>> refrigerators, cars, furniture, phones, watches, speakers, headphones etc.
>>>>> You buy what you need now and can afford now.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You want/need more later?   Buy a new, bigger one and sell the old one.
>>>> 
>>>> Unfortunately that is the stupidity of today's selfish "throw away"
>>>> society. In the long run it makes no real sense because it is more
>>>> wasteful, more expensive, and uses up far more resources.  :-(\
>>> 
>>> I did not say "throw it away".  I said sell it on eBay to help defray the cost
>>> of the new one.
>> 
>> It's still getting rid of things, instead of upgrading or repairing
>> things ... hence "throw away siciety".
> 
> Selling something is not "getting rid of things".  Someone ELSE is now using
> it. I bought this M2 MacBook Pro used on eBay 2 years ago. It was about 6
> months old when I got it AND it was $900 less than a new one AND it was free
> shipping AND it was in pristine condition. That is called "recycling" on the
> seller's part AND smart buying on my part. It is NOT "wasted". Selling things
> you no longer need/want is NOT a "throw away society". Because nothing is
> thrown away.

The original owner 'threw it away' to get a new one. If they had been 
able to upgrade the CPU, RAM, storage, etc., they might have kept it 
for longer.



>>> Also, a single chip is WAY less wasteful than hundreds of separate 
>>> chips on multiple huge boards. Those boards were each the size of a 14" 
>>> screen today. Could be even larger. Talk about waste.
>> 
>> Wasteful in the sense that you can't upgrade the CPU, GPU, RAM, etc.,
>> so the whole device has to be gotten rid of and a whole new one bought.
> 
> Again, not wasteful. You UPGRADE the whole thing instead of separate pieces.
> Then you sell the old one to someone who can't afford a new one. Which will
> also be an UPGRADE to them. Everyone is happy. Nothing is wasted. Now there
> are 2 people with a new Mac/phone/TV whatever.
> 
> The waste comes from upgrading the CPU/RAM and then throwing away the old
> CPU/RAM.  Who is going to buy used RAM chips?
> 
> We have sold all kinds of household stuff.  Sofas, chairs, TVs etc. Even an
> upright piano. Put an ad in the local Penny Saver (or whatever you have)
> magazine. Ask $150 (or whatever). Someone will offer $100 (whatever) and you
> agree. They come and pick it up.
> 
> Again, nothing is wasted.   Everyone involved is happy.

You've obviously missed the point, partly because you think "waste" 
only means tossing it the landfill. It's not worth any more of my time 
- I made the point, which some people will have understood.

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#9365

On Nov 19, 2025 at 4:34:52 PM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> On 2025-11-19 15:47:01 +0000, Tyrone said:
>> On Nov 18, 2025 at 10:20:13 PM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>> On 2025-11-18 22:28:57 +0000, Tyrone said:
>>>> On Nov 18, 2025 at 12:33:13 AM EST, "Your Name"
>>>> <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-11-18 04:53:50 +0000, Tyrone said:
>>>>>> On Nov 17, 2025 at 9:14:15 PM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In the age of Apple Silicon the Mac Pro has been become a pretty
>>>>>>> pointless device thanks to having almost nothing that is upgradable -
>>>>>>> all you can really do is add more internal drives (which, considering
>>>>>>> Apple's rather stingy and high-priced built-in drives, was its only
>>>>>>> plus point). The number of people who need a PCI / similar slot for
>>>>>>> anything else is pretty miniscule these days.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Makes sense. The big ugly tower with roaring fans and "slots" is a
>>>>>> relic of the Intel/Motorola/Power PC stone age. The huge motherboard
>>>>>> with RAM here and CPU over there and "slots" way over there is so 30
>>>>>> years ago.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Everything integrated on a single chip is the present and the future.
>>>>>> It is faster, uses WAY less power, generates WAY less heat and fits
>>>>>> into a MUCH smaller case that MIGHT need a single, whisper-quiet,
>>>>>> low-speed fan.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Plus, no other consumer product is "upgradeable".  TVs, microwave ovens,
>>>>>> refrigerators, cars, furniture, phones, watches, speakers, headphones etc.
>>>>>> You buy what you need now and can afford now.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You want/need more later?   Buy a new, bigger one and sell the old one.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Unfortunately that is the stupidity of today's selfish "throw away"
>>>>> society. In the long run it makes no real sense because it is more
>>>>> wasteful, more expensive, and uses up far more resources.  :-(\
>>>> 
>>>> I did not say "throw it away".  I said sell it on eBay to help defray the cost
>>>> of the new one.
>>> 
>>> It's still getting rid of things, instead of upgrading or repairing
>>> things ... hence "throw away siciety".
>> 
>> Selling something is not "getting rid of things".  Someone ELSE is now using
>> it. I bought this M2 MacBook Pro used on eBay 2 years ago. It was about 6
>> months old when I got it AND it was $900 less than a new one AND it was free
>> shipping AND it was in pristine condition. That is called "recycling" on the
>> seller's part AND smart buying on my part. It is NOT "wasted". Selling things
>> you no longer need/want is NOT a "throw away society". Because nothing is
>> thrown away.
> 
> The original owner 'threw it away' to get a new one. If they had been
> able to upgrade the CPU, RAM, storage, etc., they might have kept it
> for longer.

Selling something is NOT "throwing it away".

You are clearly clueless.

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#9366

On 2025-12-02 04:14:54 +0000, Tyrone said:

> On Nov 19, 2025 at 4:34:52 PM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2025-11-19 15:47:01 +0000, Tyrone said:
>>> On Nov 18, 2025 at 10:20:13 PM EST, "Your Name" 
>>> <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2025-11-18 22:28:57 +0000, Tyrone said:
>>>>> On Nov 18, 2025 at 12:33:13 AM EST, "Your Name"
>>>>> <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-11-18 04:53:50 +0000, Tyrone said:
>>>>>>> On Nov 17, 2025 at 9:14:15 PM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> In the age of Apple Silicon the Mac Pro has been become a pretty
>>>>>>>> pointless device thanks to having almost nothing that is upgradable -
>>>>>>>> all you can really do is add more internal drives (which, considering
>>>>>>>> Apple's rather stingy and high-priced built-in drives, was its only
>>>>>>>> plus point). The number of people who need a PCI / similar slot for
>>>>>>>> anything else is pretty miniscule these days.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Makes sense. The big ugly tower with roaring fans and "slots" is a
>>>>>>> relic of the Intel/Motorola/Power PC stone age. The huge motherboard
>>>>>>> with RAM here and CPU over there and "slots" way over there is so 30
>>>>>>> years ago.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Everything integrated on a single chip is the present and the future.
>>>>>>> It is faster, uses WAY less power, generates WAY less heat and fits
>>>>>>> into a MUCH smaller case that MIGHT need a single, whisper-quiet,
>>>>>>> low-speed fan.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Plus, no other consumer product is "upgradeable".  TVs, microwave ovens,
>>>>>>> refrigerators, cars, furniture, phones, watches, speakers, headphones etc.
>>>>>>> You buy what you need now and can afford now.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You want/need more later?   Buy a new, bigger one and sell the old one.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Unfortunately that is the stupidity of today's selfish "throw away"
>>>>>> society. In the long run it makes no real sense because it is more
>>>>>> wasteful, more expensive, and uses up far more resources.  :-(\
>>>>> 
>>>>> I did not say "throw it away".  I said sell it on eBay to help defray the cost
>>>>> of the new one.
>>>> 
>>>> It's still getting rid of things, instead of upgrading or repairing
>>>> things ... hence "throw away siciety".
>>> 
>>> Selling something is not "getting rid of things".  Someone ELSE is now using
>>> it. I bought this M2 MacBook Pro used on eBay 2 years ago. It was about 6
>>> months old when I got it AND it was $900 less than a new one AND it was free
>>> shipping AND it was in pristine condition. That is called "recycling" on the
>>> seller's part AND smart buying on my part. It is NOT "wasted". Selling things
>>> you no longer need/want is NOT a "throw away society". Because nothing is
>>> thrown away.
>> 
>> The original owner 'threw it away' to get a new one. If they had been
>> able to upgrade the CPU, RAM, storage, etc., they might have kept it
>> for longer.
> 
> Selling something is NOT "throwing it away".
> 
> You are clearly clueless.

Whatever you want to delude yourself with - as I said, I can't be 
bothered.  :-\

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#9359

On 18.11.25 23:28, Tyrone wrote:
> On Nov 18, 2025 at 12:33:13 AM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2025-11-18 04:53:50 +0000, Tyrone said:
>>> On Nov 17, 2025 at 9:14:15 PM EST, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In the age of Apple Silicon the Mac Pro has been become a pretty
>>>> pointless device thanks to having almost nothing that is upgradable -
>>>> all you can really do is add more internal drives (which, considering
>>>> Apple's rather stingy and high-priced built-in drives, was its only
>>>> plus point). The number of people who need a PCI / similar slot for
>>>> anything else is pretty miniscule these days.
>>>
>>> Makes sense. The big ugly tower with roaring fans and "slots" is a relic of
>>> the Intel/Motorola/Power PC stone age. The huge motherboard with RAM here and
>>> CPU over there and "slots" way over there is so 30 years ago.
>>>
>>> Everything integrated on a single chip is the present and the future. It is
>>> faster, uses WAY less power, generates WAY less heat and fits into a MUCH
>>> smaller case that MIGHT need a single, whisper-quiet, low-speed fan.
>>>
>>> Plus, no other consumer product is "upgradeable".  TVs, microwave ovens,
>>> refrigerators, cars, furniture, phones, watches, speakers, headphones etc.
>>> You buy what you need now and can afford now.
>>>
>>> You want/need more later?   Buy a new, bigger one and sell the old one.
>>
>> Unfortunately that is the stupidity of today's selfish "throw away"
>> society. In the long run it makes no real sense because it is more
>> wasteful, more expensive, and uses up far more resources.  :-(\
> 
> I did not say "throw it away".  I said sell it on eBay to help defray the cost
> of the new one.
> 
> Also, a single chip is WAY less wasteful than hundreds of separate chips on
> multiple huge boards. Those boards were each the size of a 14" screen today.
> Could be even larger. Talk about waste.

+1

-- 
"Roma locuta, causa finita" (Augustinus)

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#9367

On 2025-11-17 21:14, Your Name wrote:
> 
> In the age of Apple Silicon the Mac Pro has been become a pretty 
> pointless device thanks to having almost nothing that is upgradable - 
> all you can really do is add more internal drives (which, considering 
> Apple's rather stingy and high-priced built-in drives, was its only plus 
> point). The number of people who need a PCI / similar slot for anything 
> else is pretty miniscule these days.
> 

Apple should maintain a "Pro" Mac line naming - just not in the form 
factors of yore.

Mac Studio and increasingly Mac Mini's are becoming power houses for 
professional audio visual and other domains that make getting a Mac Pro 
of the recent kinds - at eye watering prices - completely undesirable - 
and mostly unnecessary.

That said, Mx's are just not close to competing with the high end 
ThreadRippers from AMD (which go around $10K per chip package) on 
performance.  Such setups also are coupled with high end GPU systems and 
large memory (64 - 128 GB and more).

What does this mean? If audio-visual and other power users are satisfied 
with Mac Studio's with the Maxest/Ultraist Mx chips (which do blaze), 
then a "Pro" of yore is not going to sell.

It would be good, perhaps, if the Studio or Mini's could use external 
GPU systems to boost performance a lot.  Perhaps Apple can make their 
own external GPU's too as an option for those needing bleeding edge 
performance.


> 
>     The Mac Pro Is Dead, Long Live the Mac Studio
>     ---------------------------------------------
>     The tower has fallen. Apple's pro desktop future now revolves
>     around the Mac Studio.
>

You should just post a summary and link - not a lot of copy/paste 
content.  Yes - I've mentioned such to you several times.


> 
> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/the-mac-pro-is-dead-long-live-the-mac-studio/255692/>

-- 
"It would be a measureless disaster if Russian barbarism overlaid
  the culture and independence of the ancient States of Europe."
Winston Churchill

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