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Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

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  Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> - 2023-12-09 16:05 -0400
    Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-09 22:21 +0100
      Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2023-12-09 17:04 -0500
        Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> - 2023-12-10 00:24 -0400
          Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-10 13:20 +0100
            Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> - 2023-12-10 14:09 -0400
        Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2023-12-10 10:38 +0100
          Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2023-12-10 08:26 -0500
            Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2023-12-13 13:16 +0100
              Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2023-12-13 08:58 -0500
                Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> - 2023-12-13 11:11 -0400
                Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Dave Royal<dave@dave123royal.com> - 2023-12-13 15:26 +0000
                  Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2023-12-13 14:17 -0500
                    Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2023-12-14 08:12 +0100
                Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2023-12-14 08:08 +0100
                  Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-15 20:47 +0100
                    Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> - 2023-12-20 22:12 -0400
      Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> - 2023-12-10 00:22 -0400
      Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2023-12-10 10:38 +0100
        Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-10 13:22 +0100
          Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2023-12-10 08:29 -0500
            Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> - 2023-12-10 19:22 -0400
            Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-11 12:23 +0100
              Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2023-12-11 09:16 -0500
              Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> - 2023-12-11 10:18 -0400
          Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2023-12-10 17:14 +0000
            Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> - 2023-12-10 19:21 -0400
            Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-11 12:24 +0100
              Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2023-12-11 16:28 +0000
          Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Bernd Froehlich <befr@eaglesoft.de> - 2023-12-11 08:19 +0000
            Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-11 12:28 +0100
              Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2023-12-11 16:29 +0000
            Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> - 2023-12-11 10:38 -0400
              Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Dave Royal<dave@dave123royal.com> - 2023-12-11 16:08 +0000
                Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-11 19:25 +0100
                  Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Dave Royal<dave@dave123royal.com> - 2023-12-11 19:09 +0000
                    Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-11 23:51 +0100
                      Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Dave Royal<dave@dave123royal.com> - 2023-12-12 08:27 +0000
                        Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2023-12-12 10:13 +0100
                Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2023-12-11 13:29 -0500
                  Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Larry Wolff <larrywolff@larrywolff.net> - 2023-12-11 14:17 -0500
                    Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Bradley <bradley@nospam.com> - 2023-12-11 14:35 -0500
                      Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-11 23:55 +0100
                  Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-11 23:57 +0100
    Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2023-12-10 10:37 +0100
      Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-12-10 13:24 +0100
        Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> - 2023-12-10 19:46 -0400
        Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2023-12-12 10:17 +0100

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#46896

On 2023-12-10 07:22, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-12-10 10:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 09.12.23 22:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>
>>> So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
>>
>> I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.
> 
> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can 
> not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch to 
> WhatsApp.

Eh?  I send/receive photos and videos to/from people with Android phones 
all the time - using basic message service (cell phone).  Of course such 
is covered in data plans here as part of overall "data" so there are no 
ridiculous charges as one may see in Europe and elsewhere.

-- 
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#46908

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote 

>> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can 
>> not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch to 
>> WhatsApp.
> 
> Eh?  I send/receive photos and videos to/from people with Android phones 
> all the time - using basic message service (cell phone).  Of course such 
> is covered in data plans here as part of overall "data" so there are no 
> ridiculous charges as one may see in Europe and elsewhere.

If I understand the problem set from Carlos & Andy Burns, it's NOT an
Andrloid problem - but - it _is_ an iOS inability to handle protocols.

Android users can send free MMS via RCS but iOS users can't receive them.
Whose fault is that?

In so many ways the primitive iMessages server system can't do the simplest
of things which Android has had for a very long time - where RCS is one.

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#46912

On 2023-12-10 14:29, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-12-10 07:22, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2023-12-10 10:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> On 09.12.23 22:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
>>>
>>> I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.
>>
>> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can 
>> not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch 
>> to WhatsApp.
> 
> Eh?  I send/receive photos and videos to/from people with Android phones 
> all the time - using basic message service (cell phone).  Of course such 
> is covered in data plans here as part of overall "data" so there are no 
> ridiculous charges as one may see in Europe and elsewhere.

In Europe, and probably the entire world excep NA, iphone users can not 
send photos to android users using imessage.

Two reasons: if MMS is available, it is expensive. And in several 
countries or providers, MMS has been removed.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#46915

On 2023-12-11 06:23, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-12-10 14:29, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-12-10 07:22, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2023-12-10 10:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> On 09.12.23 22:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
>>>>
>>>> I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.
>>>
>>> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and 
>>> can not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and 
>>> switch to WhatsApp.
>>
>> Eh?  I send/receive photos and videos to/from people with Android 
>> phones all the time - using basic message service (cell phone).  Of 
>> course such is covered in data plans here as part of overall "data" so 
>> there are no ridiculous charges as one may see in Europe and elsewhere.
                 [AAA]____________
> 
> In Europe, and probably the entire world excep NA, iphone users can not 
> send photos to android users using imessage.
> 
> Two reasons: if MMS is available, it is expensive. And in several 
> countries or providers, MMS has been removed.

Well, can't help that, and yes I noted the ridiculous charges. [AAA]

-- 
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#46916

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote 

>> Eh?  I send/receive photos and videos to/from people with Android phones 
>> all the time - using basic message service (cell phone).  Of course such 
>> is covered in data plans here as part of overall "data" so there are no 
>> ridiculous charges as one may see in Europe and elsewhere.
> 
> In Europe, and probably the entire world excep NA, iphone users can not 
> send photos to android users using imessage.
> 
> Two reasons: if MMS is available, it is expensive. And in several 
> countries or providers, MMS has been removed.

Sensible logic...

a. Free or not-free MMS is a carrier problem, and not Android, per se.

b. Android has a half-dozen modern free RCS-enabled apps to send MMS free.

c. It's iOS' problem that it is too primitive to _receive_ modern RCS.

Only iOS has the problem. As always. iOS is primitive. A closed system.

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#46898

On 2023-12-10, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-12-10 10:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 09.12.23 22:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2023-12-09 21:05, Wally J wrote:
>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>>>
>>>>>> Not at all.  Apple's system is not a walled garden.  More like an
>>>>>> exclusive country club where you get more but can also go
>>>>>> anywhere off of the club you want.
>>>>>
>>>>> The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those
>>>>> users have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the
>>>>> people, 80% of which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.
>>>>
>>>> Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on
>>>> Android, and most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the
>>>> same as iMessage anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a
>>>> middleman mothership server).
>>>>
>>>> But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating
>>>> with iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain
>>>> about it.
>>>
>>> That is not so.
>>>
>>> Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third
>>> party tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient
>>> protocols like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many
>>> countries it is expensive, or is being phased out.
>>>
>>> So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
>> 
>> I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.
>
> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
> not send photos or multimedia

No, they can send photos and multimedia. 

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#46907

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote 

>>>> Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third
>>>> party tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient
>>>> protocols like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many
>>>> countries it is expensive, or is being phased out.
>>>>
>>>> So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
>>> 
>>> I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.
>>
>> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
>> not send photos or multimedia
> 
> No, they can send photos and multimedia.

I strive to comprehend the fundamental problems involved - to solve them.

First off, it _is_ the iPhone people doing most of the complaining here.
But, there are _also_ some Android users also complaining about messaging.

As always, I strive to comprehend what the problem set is we're solving.

The Android users' complaint appears to be that Apple doesn't support RCS 
yet and some people (those who are charged for MMS messages mostly) 
naturally want to send MMS messages via RCS to Apple users. (That's NOT an 
Android problem, by the way - that's clearly an iOS problem since there are 
already a half dozen free Android messaging apps which support RCS.)

In addition, there are _plenty_ of cross-platform messaging apps which 
support sending MMS messages over the Internet such as this Android app.
 <https://home.pulsesms.app/overview/>'
 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTcn1wfmWjU>

So it's not that the Android users can't send MMS for free; it's that they 
want to send them to iOS users using either RCS or a different mechanism.

Which means Android has no problem sending those MMS images for free.
It's iOS that can't get them.

Now for the iOS side of the complaints, most of the complaints from the iOS 
users appears to be about the color of the bubbles - which is just absurd.

Ignoring the silly color of the bubbles (heck, Android users can set any 
conversation or group to any color they want to set them to - which is one 
of the many things the utterly primitive iMessages system can't do) what 
are the iOS users complaining about if it's NOT that they can't get the MMS 
messages from Android users who want to send them for free via RCS?

Other than silly bubble colors, why are iOS users complaining so much here?

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#46913

On 2023-12-10 18:14, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2023-12-10, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-12-10 10:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> On 09.12.23 22:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>> On 2023-12-09 21:05, Wally J wrote:
>>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not at all.  Apple's system is not a walled garden.  More like an
>>>>>>> exclusive country club where you get more but can also go
>>>>>>> anywhere off of the club you want.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those
>>>>>> users have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the
>>>>>> people, 80% of which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.
>>>>>
>>>>> Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on
>>>>> Android, and most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the
>>>>> same as iMessage anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a
>>>>> middleman mothership server).
>>>>>
>>>>> But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating
>>>>> with iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain
>>>>> about it.
>>>>
>>>> That is not so.
>>>>
>>>> Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third
>>>> party tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient
>>>> protocols like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many
>>>> countries it is expensive, or is being phased out.
>>>>
>>>> So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
>>>
>>> I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.
>>
>> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
>> not send photos or multimedia
> 
> No, they can send photos and multimedia.

Not in Europe, not probably in most of the world. Not using imessages.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#46919

On 2023-12-11, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-12-10 18:14, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2023-12-10, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2023-12-10 10:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> On 09.12.23 22:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-12-09 21:05, Wally J wrote:
>>>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not at all.  Apple's system is not a walled garden.  More like an
>>>>>>>> exclusive country club where you get more but can also go
>>>>>>>> anywhere off of the club you want.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those
>>>>>>> users have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the
>>>>>>> people, 80% of which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on
>>>>>> Android, and most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the
>>>>>> same as iMessage anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a
>>>>>> middleman mothership server).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating
>>>>>> with iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain
>>>>>> about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is not so.
>>>>>
>>>>> Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third
>>>>> party tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient
>>>>> protocols like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many
>>>>> countries it is expensive, or is being phased out.
>>>>>
>>>>> So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
>>>>
>>>> I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.
>>>
>>> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
>>> not send photos or multimedia
>> 
>> No, they can send photos and multimedia.
>
> Not in Europe, not probably in most of the world. Not using imessages.

People in those countries don't use iMessage in the first place. 

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#46911

On 10. Dec 2023 at 13:22:31 CET, ""Carlos E. R."" <robin_listas@es.invalid>
wrote:

> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
> not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch to
> WhatsApp.

Sorry, you are missing something:

Telegram, Signal, Threema for instance.

No WhatsApp over here and still happily communicating (and exchanging
pictures) with lots of Androids :-)

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#46914

On 2023-12-11 09:19, Bernd Froehlich wrote:
> On 10. Dec 2023 at 13:22:31 CET, ""Carlos E. R."" <robin_listas@es.invalid>
> wrote:
> 
>> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
>> not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch to
>> WhatsApp.
> 
> Sorry, you are missing something:
> 
> Telegram, Signal, Threema for instance.

Certainly, but we are talking of their native messaging tool that they 
are so happy about, imessages.

As I said, two reasons: in Europe, and probably most of the world except 
NA, MMS which is used to send photos to non Apple users is expensive or 
has been removed, it is not even available.

> 
> No WhatsApp over here and still happily communicating (and exchanging
> pictures) with lots of Androids :-)

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#46920

On 2023-12-11, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-12-11 09:19, Bernd Froehlich wrote:
>> On 10. Dec 2023 at 13:22:31 CET, ""Carlos E. R."" <robin_listas@es.invalid>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
>>> not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch to
>>> WhatsApp.
>> 
>> Sorry, you are missing something:
>> 
>> Telegram, Signal, Threema for instance.
>
> Certainly, but we are talking of their native messaging tool that they 
> are so happy about, imessages.
>
> As I said, two reasons: in Europe, and probably most of the world except 
> NA, MMS which is used to send photos to non Apple users is expensive or 
> has been removed, it is not even available.

Which is no big deal since they are already using alternative messaging
apps.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#46917

Bernd Froehlich <befr@eaglesoft.de> wrote 

>> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
>> not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch to
>> WhatsApp.
> 
> Sorry, you are missing something:
> 
> Telegram, Signal, Threema for instance.
> 
> No WhatsApp over here and still happily communicating (and exchanging
> pictures) with lots of Androids :-)

Bernd,

I'm trying to understand the problem (as I don't have it in the states).

 *The main problem appears to be a carrier-imposed fee on 'sending MMS'*
 *The other problem appears to be iOS uses a primitive messaging system.*
 (Substituted "closed" if you have a visceral dislike to "primitive".)

One part of the problem appears to be... 
1. Android users who are charged those fees can send MMS via RCS for free.
2. But iOS users can't receive them (it appears).
3. So in that respect, the problem is on the iOS recipient's side.

Another part of the problem appears to be... 
A. Android users who are charged those fees can send MMS via RCS for free.
B. But Android users can't receive them unless they use an RCS messenger.
C. So in that respect, the problem is on the Android recipient's side.

Meanwhile... the third part of the problem appears to be... 
a. iOS users can send "things" (e.g., pictures) via their Internet app
b. Which is no different than Telegram, Signal, Threema or WhatsApp
c. The only difference being all iPhones have that proprietary messaging

Is this an accurate summary of the problem set yet?
 

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#46918

On 11 Dec 2023 10:38:27 -0400 Wally J wrote:

>I'm trying to understand the problem (as I don't have it in the states).
>
> *The main problem appears to be a carrier-imposed fee on 'sending MMS'*
> *The other problem appears to be iOS uses a primitive messaging system.*
> (Substituted "closed" if you have a visceral dislike to "primitive".)
>
>One part of the problem appears to be... 
>1. Android users who are charged those fees can send MMS via RCS for free.
>2. But iOS users can't receive them (it appears).
>3. So in that respect, the problem is on the iOS recipient's side.
>
>Another part of the problem appears to be... 
>A. Android users who are charged those fees can send MMS via RCS for free.
>B. But Android users can't receive them unless they use an RCS messenger.
>C. So in that respect, the problem is on the Android recipient's side.
>
>Meanwhile... the third part of the problem appears to be... 
>a. iOS users can send "things" (e.g., pictures) via their Internet app
>b. Which is no different than Telegram, Signal, Threema or WhatsApp
>c. The only difference being all iPhones have that proprietary messaging
>
>Is this an accurate summary of the problem set yet?
> 

The 'problem', which is shared by (some) users of both Android and iOS, is 
... 

"A user of a modern smartphone cannot be confident of sending a 
feature-rich message (having features equivalent to the GSMA's RCS 
Universal Profile) irrespective of both sender's and recipient's make of 
phone, both sender and receiver using their phone's _default_ messaging 
facility." 

<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
Note that RCS does not currently include End to End Encryption (e2ee).

At the moment only SMS messages can be confidently sent and reliably 
received. 

MMS has been discontinued in many territories: 
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_Messaging_Service#Decline_and_discontinuation 

It is rumoured that Apple will enable RCS in their default message app in 
2024 (not replacing iMessage) which is to be welcomed IMO. No doubt people 
will continue to use proprietary apps and protocols when they want extra 
features - eg e2ee. 
-- 
(Remove numerics from email address)

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#46921

On 2023-12-11 17:08, Dave Royal wrote:
> On 11 Dec 2023 10:38:27 -0400 Wally J wrote:

...

> 
> The 'problem', which is shared by (some) users of both Android and iOS, is
> ...
> 
> "A user of a modern smartphone cannot be confident of sending a
> feature-rich message (having features equivalent to the GSMA's RCS
> Universal Profile) irrespective of both sender's and recipient's make of
> phone, both sender and receiver using their phone's _default_ messaging
> facility."
> 
> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
> Note that RCS does not currently include End to End Encryption (e2ee).

It does if you use the Google Messages App.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.

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#46923

On 11 Dec 2023 19:25:56 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
>On 2023-12-11 17:08, Dave Royal wrote:
>> On 11 Dec 2023 10:38:27 -0400 Wally J wrote:
>
>...
>
>> 
>> The 'problem', which is shared by (some) users of both Android and iOS, is
>> ...
>> 
>> "A user of a modern smartphone cannot be confident of sending a
>> feature-rich message (having features equivalent to the GSMA's RCS
>> Universal Profile) irrespective of both sender's and recipient's make of
>> phone, both sender and receiver using their phone's _default_ messaging
>> facility."
>> 
>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
>> Note that RCS does not currently include End to End Encryption (e2ee).
>
>It does if you use the Google Messages App.

GSMA's RCS Universal Profile does not.
-- 
(Remove numerics from email address)

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#46926

On 2023-12-11 20:09, Dave Royal wrote:
> On 11 Dec 2023 19:25:56 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2023-12-11 17:08, Dave Royal wrote:
>>> On 11 Dec 2023 10:38:27 -0400 Wally J wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>>>
>>> The 'problem', which is shared by (some) users of both Android and iOS, is
>>> ...
>>>
>>> "A user of a modern smartphone cannot be confident of sending a
>>> feature-rich message (having features equivalent to the GSMA's RCS
>>> Universal Profile) irrespective of both sender's and recipient's make of
>>> phone, both sender and receiver using their phone's _default_ messaging
>>> facility."
>>>
>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
>>> Note that RCS does not currently include End to End Encryption (e2ee).
>>
>> It does if you use the Google Messages App.
> 
> GSMA's RCS Universal Profile does not.

Is anybody providing that in the real world?

Samsung switched to the Google version.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.

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#46929

On 11 Dec 2023 23:51:39 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
>On 2023-12-11 20:09, Dave Royal wrote:
>> On 11 Dec 2023 19:25:56 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2023-12-11 17:08, Dave Royal wrote:
>>>> On 11 Dec 2023 10:38:27 -0400 Wally J wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The 'problem', which is shared by (some) users of both Android and iOS, is
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "A user of a modern smartphone cannot be confident of sending a
>>>> feature-rich message (having features equivalent to the GSMA's RCS
>>>> Universal Profile) irrespective of both sender's and recipient's make of
>>>> phone, both sender and receiver using their phone's _default_ messaging
>>>> facility."
>>>>
>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
>>>> Note that RCS does not currently include End to End Encryption (e2ee).
>>>
>>> It does if you use the Google Messages App.
>> 
>> GSMA's RCS Universal Profile does not.
>
>Is anybody providing that in the real world?
>
>Samsung switched to the Google version.

The GSMA RCS UP* is a set of standards for a set of features. Google's RCS 
implementation is not an /alternative/ to the UP, it is (IIUC) in 
compliance with the UP and provides features on top, such as e2ee. 

*I keep giving it that long name because 'RCS' could refer to that set of 
standards, Google's implementation based on those, or somebody else's 
service called RCS. 
-- 
(Remove numerics from email address)

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#46930

On 12.12.23 09:27, Dave Royal wrote:
> On 11 Dec 2023 23:51:39 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> Samsung switched to the Google version.
> 
> The GSMA RCS UP* is a set of standards for a set of features. Google's RCS 
> implementation is not an /alternative/ to the UP, it is (IIUC) in 
> compliance with the UP and provides features on top, such as e2ee. 

Right. And this encryption is proprietary and is not accepted by Apple.
Meaning that RCS will be introduced but kept outside iMsg.

> *I keep giving it that long name because 'RCS' could refer to that set of 
> standards, Google's implementation based on those, or somebody else's 
> service called RCS. 

Google-RCS will fail inevitably: It has no unique selling proposition
compared to other messengers which exist already for roughly a decade.

-- 
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

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#46922

On 2023-12-11 11:08, Dave Royal wrote:

> "A user of a modern smartphone cannot be confident of sending a
> feature-rich message (having features equivalent to the GSMA's RCS
> Universal Profile) irrespective of both sender's and recipient's make of
> phone, both sender and receiver using their phone's _default_ messaging
> facility."

Which is a sad argument.  There are other means to move large files if 
one avenue doesn't work.  E-mail, text a link to a repository (Dropbox), 
e-mail a link to ... etc.

> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
> Note that RCS does not currently include End to End Encryption (e2ee).
> 
> At the moment only SMS messages can be confidently sent and reliably
> received.
> 
> MMS has been discontinued in many territories:
> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_Messaging_Service#Decline_and_discontinuation

6 countries.   Oooooooohhhh the horror.

> It is rumoured that Apple will enable RCS in their default message app in

No rumour.  Apple have said they will.

> 2024 (not replacing iMessage) which is to be welcomed IMO. No doubt people
> will continue to use proprietary apps and protocols when they want extra
> features - eg e2ee.

It does E2E already in some instances.  But Apple is seeking a 
non-3rd-party solution to E2E in RCS.

https://www.techradar.com/phones/iphone/breaking-apple-will-support-rcs-in-2024


-- 
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

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