Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems

From	Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201105.rodent.frell.theremailer.net>
Newsgroups	alt.sys.pdp11, comp.sys.dec, vmsnet.pdp-11
Subject	Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems
References	<irk1m5$7fp$1@Iltempo.Update.UU.SE>
Message-ID	<c832b411ed72d0490fd56f5d781efa44@msgid.frell.theremailer.net> (permalink)
Date	2011-05-26 17:50 +0200
Organization	Frell Anonymous Remailer

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> wrote:

> >>>>>>>>> I was waiting for this to come up.  I think most people think
> >>>>>>>>> that there are really only two OSes left in the world.  MS and
> >>>>>>>>> Unix. 

Not from where I stand as someone who is in the business of writing software
for IBM mainframes (not in COBOL, btw!) However I could be accused of
thinking there is really only one OS left in the world, z/OS.

Don't get me wrong, I do like old stuff like DOS, PDP-11 (I'm reading the
newsgroup) although it's been a long time since I used a PDP machine.

> >>>>>>>>> that predate MS and might even predate Unix and still have loyal
> >>>>>>>>> followings. (And I am not talking about VMS. :-)

Yep!

> We're going to be stuck with the Unix ideas for the forseeable future, 

That's only if you use UNIX.

> with more and more cruft grafted in to solve the problems. Look at 
> various extensions for security that have come, such as capabilities, 
> ACLs, doing things over ssh, using SSL, and now also hardware support 
> for security issues.

No question. I always get flamed and death threats for saying this, but as
much as UNIX, LINUX, etc. are really the only modern way to go on PCs, they
are still not enterprise quality. Linux is far far from it, Solaris better
but still with the problems you mentioned and many many more.

> >>>>> Yes, but not the majority of the ones people actually want.  :-)

Everybody in the dark ages said the world was flat, but it wasn't. The bad
part was the people who said it wasn't got burned at the stake. Gee,
nothing's really changed!

> The problem is if everyone else is using Microsoft Office, and pass 
> around documents written in there, you need to be fully compatible with 
> that, or else you are at a disadvantage.
> And so far, Microsoft have been very successful at getting everyone to 
> use Microsoft Office.

I have used OO to deal with Windows users for a few years now without any
compatability issues. That includes word doc and excel spreadsheets. I'm
sure if you look you can find stuff that doesn't work but I never came
across any.

> >> There were word processing and other stuff available for RSX. But it
> >> wasn't pretty enough. People started wanting very graphical interfaces
> >> to those things, and at that point it became a question of the hardware
> >> couldn't do it.

That's exactly right. It's all about GUI today, nothing else matters. And
that's why today's code quality is so bad, because people don't know how
to write code, they only know how to use libraries or APIs other people
wrote. 

> Oracle dropping VMS looks more like VARs getting out of VMS before HP. 
> HP will be the last guy standing. And this is not because HP said Oracle 
> should. I suspect they are actually very unhappy with that announcement 
> (as are Intel, I guess). But from Oracles point of view, it probably 
> makes great sense. The earnings don't justify the costs anymore. They 
> can make better money by another strategy. That's why they drop VMS.

Itanium, VMS, what's next ;)

> Technical merits comes way down on any list.

Except for the people who care, and there are only a few of us left.

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Thread

Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Jerome H. Fine" <everyone@nospam.com> - 2011-04-04 09:12 -0400
  Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems billy@MIX.COM - 2011-04-30 22:27 +0000
    Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Jerome H. Fine" <everyone@nospam.com> - 2011-05-01 10:01 -0400
      Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-01 10:27 -0700
        Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Jerome H. Fine" <everyone@nospam.com> - 2011-05-01 20:53 -0400
  Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-05-01 21:16 +0000
    Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Jerome H. Fine" <everyone@nospam.com> - 2011-05-01 20:54 -0400
      Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-01 21:07 -0700
        Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Jerome H. Fine" <everyone@nospam.com> - 2011-05-02 09:37 -0400
          Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-02 08:39 -0700
      Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-05-02 05:15 +0000
  Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems jjh <jjhudak@gmail.com> - 2011-05-02 18:20 -0700
    Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-03 08:18 -0500
      Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Jerome H. Fine" <everyone@nospam.com> - 2011-05-03 12:51 -0400
        VAXTREK koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-03 12:50 -0500
        Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Henry Crun <mike@rechtman.com> - 2011-05-03 21:39 +0300
          Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Jerome H. Fine" <everyone@nospam.com> - 2011-05-03 15:56 -0400
          Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems onedbguru <onedbguru@yahoo.com> - 2011-05-03 15:52 -0700
            Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems billig999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-04 00:07 +0000
              Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> - 2011-05-04 01:16 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-04 13:01 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> - 2011-05-04 10:19 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2011-05-04 10:58 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-04 16:33 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> - 2011-05-04 21:51 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems G Cornelius <cornelius@eisner.decus.org> - 2011-05-06 13:08 -0500
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> - 2011-05-06 14:47 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@update.uu.se> - 2011-05-06 16:13 -0600
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2011-05-07 21:00 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-07 19:51 -0600
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> - 2011-05-08 07:19 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2011-05-09 17:32 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> - 2011-05-09 09:40 -0600
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-09 09:43 -0600
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems vandys@vsta.org - 2011-05-09 21:47 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-09 16:05 -0600
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems vandys@vsta.org - 2011-05-09 23:05 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-09 17:20 -0600
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems vandys@vsta.org - 2011-05-10 00:12 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-09 19:36 -0600
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-05-10 02:01 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-10 08:31 -0500
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems John Wallace <johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-05-10 09:56 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-10 12:50 -0500
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems G Cornelius <cornelius@eisner.decus.org> - 2011-05-11 11:04 -0500
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-04 10:02 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-04 12:20 -0500
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-05-04 18:10 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems John Wallace <johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-05-04 12:21 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems MetaEd <metaed@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 15:06 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-04 20:17 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-10 08:20 -0500
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-10 08:29 -0500
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-10 09:29 -0600
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems G Cornelius <cornelius@eisner.decus.org> - 2011-05-10 12:16 -0500
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-10 12:45 -0500
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-10 15:34 -0600
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-10 12:58 -0500
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-10 15:36 -0600
    Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Jerome H. Fine" <everyone@nospam.com> - 2011-05-03 12:38 -0400
  Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems paramucho@hotmail.com (paramucho) - 2011-05-03 11:28 +0000
    Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Jerome H. Fine" <everyone@nospam.com> - 2011-05-03 12:09 -0400
    Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems billy@MIX.COM - 2011-05-23 03:41 +0000
      Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-22 21:51 -0700
        Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems jjh <jjhudak@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 07:47 -0700
          Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-23 15:04 +0000
            Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-23 15:52 -0700
              Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-24 00:16 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-23 17:40 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-24 12:58 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-05-24 14:02 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-24 07:36 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-24 16:42 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-24 11:17 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-24 20:07 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2011-05-24 21:07 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-25 03:34 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-25 15:46 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-25 16:00 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201105.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2011-05-26 17:50 +0200
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-26 09:53 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201105.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2011-05-26 22:20 +0200
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-28 18:01 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2011-05-25 20:58 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-05-26 01:23 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-26 08:01 -0500
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-05-27 00:54 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2011-05-26 16:15 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-05-26 23:56 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2011-05-27 14:37 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-05-27 00:02 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-26 20:17 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2011-05-27 14:51 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-27 12:48 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2011-05-27 14:35 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Jerome H. Fine" <everyone@nospam.com> - 2011-05-25 21:14 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-05-26 01:32 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Jerome H. Fine" <everyone@nospam.com> - 2011-05-26 16:39 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201105.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2011-05-26 17:50 +0200
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2011-05-24 21:01 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-26 07:53 -0500
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-26 09:59 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201105.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2011-05-26 10:03 +0200
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems paramucho@hotmail.com (paramucho) - 2011-05-26 14:21 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems billy@MIX.COM - 2011-05-26 18:50 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems paramucho@hotmail.com (paramucho) - 2011-05-27 11:58 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems billy@MIX.COM - 2011-05-27 17:23 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-26 10:04 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201105.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2011-05-27 03:30 +0200
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2011-05-26 22:17 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-26 20:26 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems John Wallace <johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-05-30 14:09 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-30 18:15 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems jjh <jjhudak@gmail.com> - 2011-05-31 11:02 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-31 15:54 -0500
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-05-31 21:37 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Jerome H. Fine" <everyone@nospam.com> - 2011-05-24 22:59 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-25 03:51 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Jerome H. Fine" <everyone@nospam.com> - 2011-05-25 08:36 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Tom Lake" <tlake@twcny.rr.com> - 2011-05-25 13:25 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Jerome H. Fine" <everyone@nospam.com> - 2011-05-25 14:01 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-25 11:44 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2011-05-25 21:20 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> - 2011-05-26 10:53 -0600
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2011-05-26 16:27 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-26 20:27 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Jerome H. Fine" <everyone@nospam.com> - 2011-05-26 16:38 -0400
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-26 21:44 -0700
              Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems paramucho@hotmail.com (paramucho) - 2011-05-24 12:02 +0000
        Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Jerome H. Fine" <everyone@nospam.com> - 2011-05-23 10:48 -0400
          Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-23 15:46 -0700
            Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-24 00:19 +0000
              Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-23 17:43 -0700
              Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Jerome H. Fine" <everyone@nospam.com> - 2011-05-25 14:41 -0400
          Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems billy@MIX.COM - 2011-05-24 02:54 +0000
            Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-24 13:03 +0000
              Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-24 07:39 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems billy@MIX.COM - 2011-05-24 15:10 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-24 08:48 -0700
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-24 16:54 +0000
              Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems billy@MIX.COM - 2011-05-24 14:42 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-24 16:56 +0000
                Re: Y3K for PDP-11 Operating Systems "Jerome H. Fine" <everyone@nospam.com> - 2011-05-25 14:05 -0400

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