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Re: IIgs questions

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On Sunday, September 3, 2017 at 6:07:14 PM UTC-5, Polymorph wrote:
> On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 1:59:41 AM UTC+10, roger....@gmail.com wrote:
> > There is little value in trying to debate with fanatics.

Seems that Du Hast is more fixated than just a fanatic. The fixated only want good news.

> This topic was *always* going to be polarising, so I'm not sure why anyone is surprised. Many people are 8 bit purists, whilst others enjoy the 16 bit side of the IIgs. Surely people are entitled to their own opinions?

I am primarily trying to add historical perspective. There may be readers who aren't aware of how the microcomputer world was 30 years ago.
  
> > Generally the 1982 Commodore 64 outclasses Apple II graphics. One of IBM's last significant contributions to the PC architecture was VGA (640x480 256 colors), which even Apple adopted in 1989's Mac IIci. (VGA also spelled doom for the Amiga and Atari ST.)
> 
> I'm not sure which graphics mode you are talking about with regards to the IIgs? The IIgs has 2 super hires modes that set it apart from the 8 bit machines:
>   1) 320×200 (3200 colours, selectable from 4,096 colour palette)
>   2) 640×200 (800 colours, selectable from 4,096 colour palette)

No idea where the 3200 and 800 colours are from. From the IIgs Hardware Reference Manual:

* 16 colors for each of the 200 lines-up to 256 colors per frame

I failed to mention that by the time the IIgs was released its Super Hi-Res was already obsolete compared to the Amiga or Atari ST.

There is exactly one Super Hi-Res page which is laughable in the Commodore or Atari worlds.

> Well compare it to contemporary 16 bit machines of the day - the Atari ST and the Amiga (of which I own both) - consider how expandable each of these machines are in comparison to the IIgs. Short answer, there is no comparison. Woz's slots to this day allow enthusiasts to easily add features to a 30+ year old machine. There are great expansions for the Amiga (and maybe the ST?) too, but these usually involve hanging cartridge-style contraptions to the side of the machine. And you can usually only add one at a time...

Absolutely, if Woz hadn't insisted on 8 slots for the original Apple II, the IIgs could not have happened.

So what did you get for the IIgs that wasn't already built in to the Atari ST or Amiga? (For the noobs, "Which Atari ST or Amiga" is its own topic.)
  
> But in truth this is not the real reason why this machine is my favourite. I grew up with an Apple IIe, but with the IIgs I love the fact that I can do pretty much everything I used to do with an 8 bit machine *plus* take advantage of the 16 bit side
>   - graphical OS
>   - greatly improved graphics
>   - greatly improved sound

As I already mentioned: Primarily appealing to existing Apple II owners.

> I get that some people prefer the 8 bitters - I have a //e and //c as well -  but to right-off the IIgs as not being a worthy successor? Bah!

I appreciate that Apple put a whole lot of work into the IIgs. Essentially porting the Macintosh Toolbox was a huge effort. There were literally reams of pre-release documentation.

The IIgs had the first color implementation of Apple's user interface.

However...name the GS/OS "killer application." Something that was only on the IIgs that would make it worth buying instead of a //e.

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IIgs questions Anthony Ortiz <anthonypaulo@gmail.com> - 2017-08-31 07:46 -0700
  Re: IIgs questions "Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'" <michael.pohoreski@gmail.com> - 2017-08-31 08:45 -0700
  Re: IIgs questions Charlie <charlieDOTd@verEYEzon.net> - 2017-08-31 12:06 -0400
  Re: IIgs questions roger.shimada@gmail.com - 2017-08-31 17:55 -0700
    Re: IIgs questions Du Hast <duhast6377@gmail.com> - 2017-09-01 18:14 -0700
      Re: IIgs questions roger.shimada@gmail.com - 2017-09-03 08:59 -0700
        Re: IIgs questions Polymorph <mike.a.stephens@gmail.com> - 2017-09-03 16:07 -0700
          Re: IIgs questions Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> - 2017-09-03 22:24 -0400
            Re: IIgs questions awanderin <awanderin@gmail.com> - 2017-09-04 23:13 -0600
          Re: IIgs questions roger.shimada@gmail.com - 2017-09-06 18:34 -0700
            Re: IIgs questions John Brooks <jbrooks@blueshiftinc.com> - 2017-09-06 23:51 -0700
        Re: IIgs questions Du Hast <duhast6377@gmail.com> - 2017-09-03 19:03 -0700
  Re: IIgs questions David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2017-09-01 10:52 -0700
    Re: IIgs questions Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2017-09-01 16:40 -0500
      Re: IIgs questions Daniel Bethe <smuckola@gmail.com> - 2017-09-01 18:07 -0700
      Re: IIgs questions David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2017-09-02 09:33 -0700
        Re: IIgs questions Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2017-09-02 12:50 -0500
          Re: IIgs questions James Davis <JPD.Enterprises@outlook.com> - 2017-09-02 12:33 -0700
            Re: IIgs questions Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2017-09-02 17:19 -0500
              Re: IIgs questions James Davis <JPD.Enterprises@outlook.com> - 2017-09-03 19:20 -0700
                Re: IIgs questions Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2017-09-03 23:04 -0500
      Re: IIgs questions Tom Porter <laseractiveguy@gmail.com> - 2017-09-02 12:59 -0700
  Re: IIgs questions Hugh Hood <hughhood@earthlink.net> - 2017-09-02 12:20 -0500
    Re: IIgs questions Brian Patrie <bpatrie@bellsouth.spamisicky.net> - 2017-09-03 07:14 -0500
      Re: IIgs questions Hugh Hood <hughhood@earthlink.net> - 2017-09-03 22:56 -0500
        Re: IIgs questions Brian Patrie <bpatrie@bellsouth.spamisicky.net> - 2017-09-04 00:43 -0500
        Re: IIgs questions Brian Patrie <bpatrie@bellsouth.spamisicky.net> - 2017-09-04 00:49 -0500
    Re: IIgs questions MG <*@guidero.us> - 2017-09-03 09:41 -0700
      Re: IIgs questions Hugh Hood <hughhood@earthlink.net> - 2017-09-03 18:14 -0500
        Re: IIgs questions Steven Hirsch <snhirsch@gmail.com> - 2017-09-03 20:25 -0400
        Re: IIgs questions MG <*@guidero.us> - 2017-09-04 00:27 -0700
  Re: IIgs questions Jorge <jorge@jorgechamorro.com> - 2017-09-02 20:54 -0700

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