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HForm error

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  HForm error "Chris Bell (News)" <news@highpath.net> - 2012-07-09 15:34 +0100
    Re: HForm error Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2012-07-09 17:48 +0100
      Re: HForm error "Chris Bell (News)" <news@highpath.net> - 2012-07-09 19:50 +0100
        Re: HForm error SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> - 2012-07-09 21:01 +0100
        Re: HForm error "David Holden" <SpamBin@apdl.co.uk> - 2012-07-10 05:52 +0000
        Re: HForm error Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> - 2012-07-10 12:43 +0100
          Re: HForm error "Chris Bell (News)" <news@highpath.net> - 2012-07-10 13:37 +0100
            Re: HForm error Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> - 2012-07-11 10:10 +0100
              Re: HForm error "Chris Bell (News)" <news@highpath.net> - 2012-07-11 17:30 +0100
                Re: HForm error Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> - 2012-07-12 15:41 +0100
                  HForm error - now OT "Chris Bell (News)" <news@highpath.net> - 2012-07-13 18:17 +0100
              Re: HForm error Andrew Wickham <ajw99uk@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-26 05:17 -0700
                Re: HForm error Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> - 2012-07-27 13:13 +0100
    Re: HForm error "David Holden" <SpamBin@apdl.co.uk> - 2012-07-09 17:26 +0000
      HForm error Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2012-07-10 06:25 +0100
        Re: HForm error Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> - 2012-07-10 12:49 +0100

#5853 — HForm error

Hi,

I can't format a Western Digital 80GB harddrive (brand new in a sealed
bag)...

Both HForm 2.54 (21 Jan 2003) and HForm 2.56 (12 Apr 2002) give the
same repeating error, whatever parameters I try:

  'Format error on this track'

Does this suggest a duff harddrive?  Any help will be gratefully
received.

Chris Bell.

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#5854

"Chris Bell (News)" <news@highpath.net> wrote:
> 
> Both HForm 2.54 (21 Jan 2003) and HForm 2.56 (12 Apr 2002) give the
> same repeating error, whatever parameters I try:
> 
>   'Format error on this track'
> 
> Does this suggest a duff harddrive?  Any help will be gratefully
> received.

What inputs are you giving to HForm, and how far does it get?

Theo

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#5856

> "Chris Bell (News)" <news@highpath.net> wrote:
> > Both HForm 2.54 (21 Jan 2003) and HForm 2.56 (12 Apr 2002) give the
> > same repeating error, whatever parameters I try:
> >    'Format error on this track'
> > Does this suggest a duff harddrive?  Any help will be gratefully
> > received.

Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> What inputs are you giving to HForm, and how far does it get?

I've accepted the defaults, and I've tried a few other possibilities. 
It starts giving ten 'Format error on this track' errors per track as
soon as I've given the final 'Go'.

David Holden <SpamBin@apdl.co.uk> wrote:
> I think most modern WD drives won't work on a RiscPC motherboard.

Ah - I assumed all IDE harddrives would work, especially as I'm
replacing an old 80GB dive with a new 80GB drive.  It's the 2nd drive
(in a removeable drawer) in my Iyonix.  I get the same results whether
it's set as 'Cable select' or 'Slave'.

Any recommendations?

Many thanks,
Chris.

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#5859

Chris Bell wrote:
> Any recommendations?

Well the obvious thing to try, b4 buying an interface, is to disconnect 
the 1st drive + try it as master. 
 
--  
Stewart Goldwater 
http://janusg.co.nr 

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#5862

On  9-Jul-2012, "Chris Bell (News)" <news@highpath.net> wrote:

> Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> > What inputs are you giving to HForm, and how far does it get?
>
> I've accepted the defaults, and I've tried a few other possibilities.
> It starts giving ten 'Format error on this track' errors per track as
> soon as I've given the final 'Go'.

Never NEVER use 'Format' in HForm. It doesn't do anything except waste a lot
of time. Just use 'Initialise'.

-- 
David Holden  -  APDL  -  <http://www.apdl.co.uk>

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#5865

In article <52acb50483news@highpath.net>, Chris Bell (News)
<URL:mailto:news@highpath.net> wrote:
> > "Chris Bell (News)" <news@highpath.net> wrote:
> > > Both HForm 2.54 (21 Jan 2003) and HForm 2.56 (12 Apr 2002) give the
> > > same repeating error, whatever parameters I try:
> > >    'Format error on this track'
> > > Does this suggest a duff harddrive?  Any help will be gratefully
> > > received.
> 
> Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> > What inputs are you giving to HForm, and how far does it get?
> 
> I've accepted the defaults, and I've tried a few other possibilities. 
> It starts giving ten 'Format error on this track' errors per track as
> soon as I've given the final 'Go'.
> 
> David Holden <SpamBin@apdl.co.uk> wrote:
> > I think most modern WD drives won't work on a RiscPC motherboard.
> 
> Ah - I assumed all IDE harddrives would work, especially as I'm
> replacing an old 80GB dive with a new 80GB drive.

RiscPC access IDE drives using a very out dated method. Whilst nearly all
manufacturers claim it is still supported, the RISC OS community know that
to be false.

Even IDE drives compatible with an Iyonix are now difficult to come by (Most
manufactures now make few if any IDE drives.

We have stocks of suitable drives for both RiscPC and Iyonix!
They are mostly 'pulls' as no new stock can be found.

'Pull' as in, fitted to a system and then upgraded before use!

>  It's the 2nd drive
> (in a removeable drawer) in my Iyonix.  I get the same results whether
> it's set as 'Cable select' or 'Slave'.

Draws can have issues, by pass it to be sure.
Some drive combinations don't work so use as a master is another test to
try.
 
> Any recommendations?
> 
> Many thanks,
> Chris.
> 
> 


Chris Evans

-- 
CJE Micro's / 4D                'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222             Fax: 01903 523679
chris@cjemicros.co.uk     http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex,     BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!

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#5866

Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
> Chris Bell (News)
> > It's the 2nd drive (in a removeable drawer) in my Iyonix.  I get
> > the same results whether it's set as 'Cable select' or 'Slave'.

> Draws can have issues, by pass it to be sure. Some drive combinations
> don't work so use as a master is another test to try.

Hmmm - and I bought my drawer from you, Chris!  But you've got me
thinking...

I wanted to replace my old 'drawer' HD drive because it sometimes makes
a whirring sound when switched on - as if it's struggling to get
turning.  I suspected a dirty contact reducing the voltage, but was
wrong - a full 5.00 and 12.05 volts at the business end, under load. 
And my new WD drive sometimes makes exactly the same whirring noise and
the voltages are still ok.

Has anyone else had a similar experience and, if so, how did you solve
it?

Chris.

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#5870

In article <52ad16b22cnews@highpath.net>, Chris Bell (News)
<URL:mailto:news@highpath.net> wrote:
> Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
> > Chris Bell (News)
> > > It's the 2nd drive (in a removeable drawer) in my Iyonix.  I get
> > > the same results whether it's set as 'Cable select' or 'Slave'.
> 
> > Draws can have issues, by pass it to be sure. Some drive combinations
> > don't work so use as a master is another test to try.
> 
> Hmmm - and I bought my drawer from you, Chris!  But you've got me
> thinking...
> 
> I wanted to replace my old 'drawer' HD drive because it sometimes makes
> a whirring sound when switched on - as if it's struggling to get
> turning.  I suspected a dirty contact reducing the voltage, but was
> wrong - a full 5.00 and 12.05 volts at the business end, under load. 
> And my new WD drive sometimes makes exactly the same whirring noise and
> the voltages are still ok.
> 
> Has anyone else had a similar experience and, if so, how did you solve
> it?

As I reckon there is less than 1% chance that the new WD drive is RiscPC
motherboard compatible the solution is another drive.

I've just remembered another solution that increases the compatiblity
possibility to about 90%
Use an IDEFS interface: Unipod or S/H Simtec IDEFS

But again some modern drives do not to work with IDEFS interfaces.

Chris Evans

-- 
CJE Micro's / 4D                'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222             Fax: 01903 523679
chris@cjemicros.co.uk     http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex,     BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!

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#5871

Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
> Chris Bell (News)
> > I wanted to replace my old 'drawer' HD drive because it sometimes
> > makes a whirring sound when switched on - as if it's struggling to
> > get turning.  I suspected a dirty contact reducing the voltage, but
> > was wrong - a full 5.00 and 12.05 volts at the business end, under
> > load. And my new WD drive sometimes makes exactly the same
> > whirring noise and the voltages are still ok.

> As I reckon there is less than 1% chance that the new WD drive is
> RiscPC motherboard compatible the solution is another drive.

> I've just remembered another solution that increases the compatiblity
> possibility to about 90%
> Use an IDEFS interface: Unipod or S/H Simtec IDEFS

> But again some modern drives do not to work with IDEFS interfaces.

> Chris Evans

Thanks for your thoughts, Chris.  I'm going away soon (for a 3 month
sponsored cycle ride!) but will contact you for a more suitable drive
when I return.

In the meantime - any thoughts on the whirring that sounds like the
motor is failing to get up to speed?  I can sometimes stop it with a
thump, after which it behaves impecably.  The strange thing is my new
WD drive did the same thing once suggesting, to me, a poor plug/socket
contact causing a reduced voltage under load - but I've measured the
voltages when this happens and they're what they're supposed to be.

Chris Bell.

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#5872

In article <52adafe09cnews@highpath.net>, Chris Bell (News)
<URL:mailto:news@highpath.net> wrote:
> Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
> > Chris Bell (News)
> > > I wanted to replace my old 'drawer' HD drive because it sometimes
> > > makes a whirring sound when switched on - as if it's struggling to
> > > get turning.  I suspected a dirty contact reducing the voltage, but
> > > was wrong - a full 5.00 and 12.05 volts at the business end, under
> > > load. And my new WD drive sometimes makes exactly the same
> > > whirring noise and the voltages are still ok.
> 
> > As I reckon there is less than 1% chance that the new WD drive is
> > RiscPC motherboard compatible the solution is another drive.
> 
> > I've just remembered another solution that increases the compatiblity
> > possibility to about 90%
> > Use an IDEFS interface: Unipod or S/H Simtec IDEFS
> 
> > But again some modern drives do not to work with IDEFS interfaces.
> 
> > Chris Evans
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts, Chris.  I'm going away soon (for a 3 month
> sponsored cycle ride!) 

What? Why? Where?
Go on now is your opportunity to plug your ride.

> but will contact you for a more suitable drive
> when I return.
> 
> In the meantime - any thoughts on the whirring that sounds like the
> motor is failing to get up to speed?  I can sometimes stop it with a
> thump, after which it behaves impecably. 

If you mean thumping the computer, then it is normaly the fan in the PSU!
If the drive... DON'T

> The strange thing is my new
> WD drive did the same thing once suggesting, to me, a poor plug/socket
> contact causing a reduced voltage under load - but I've measured the
> voltages when this happens and they're what they're supposed to be.

Chris Evans

-- 
CJE Micro's / 4D                'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222             Fax: 01903 523679
chris@cjemicros.co.uk     http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex,     BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!

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#5874 — HForm error - now OT

Chris Evans <chris@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
> Chris Bell (News) wrote:

> > Thanks for your thoughts, Chris.  I'm going away soon (for a 3 month
> > sponsored cycle ride!) 

> What? Why? Where?
> Go on now is your opportunity to plug your ride.

Well, ok Chris, thanks for the opening...

I'm cycling from Wales to Istanbul via Eastern Europe, in aid of
children with cancer.  It's about 3500 miles and it'll take about 3
months.  You can read all about it here:
  http://www.justgiving.com/chrisbell-2012

Many thanks,
Chris.

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#5941

On Jul 11, 10:10 am, Chris Evans <ch...@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
>
> As I reckon there is less than 1% chance that the new WD drive is RiscPC
> motherboard compatible the solution is another drive.
>
> I've just remembered another solution that increases the compatiblity
> possibility to about 90%
> Use an IDEFS interface: Unipod or S/H Simtec IDEFS
>
> But again some modern drives do not to work with IDEFS interfaces.
>
AIUI the WD drive is being fitted to an Iyonix, so RiscPC
compatibility and add-on
IDEFS interfaces are not in point.  Sadly not much comfort if the
Iyonix itself
cannot handle more recent IDE drives ....

Andrew

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#5953

In article <d15eca7a-644e-43e0-bb14-3d7cd698585e@q29g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,
Andrew Wickham <URL:mailto:ajw99uk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Jul 11, 10:10 am, Chris Evans <ch...@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > As I reckon there is less than 1% chance that the new WD drive is RiscPC
> > motherboard compatible the solution is another drive.
> >
> > I've just remembered another solution that increases the compatiblity
> > possibility to about 90%
> > Use an IDEFS interface: Unipod or S/H Simtec IDEFS
> >
> > But again some modern drives do not to work with IDEFS interfaces.
> >
> AIUI the WD drive is being fitted to an Iyonix, so RiscPC
> compatibility and add-on
> IDEFS interfaces are not in point.  Sadly not much comfort if the
> Iyonix itself
> cannot handle more recent IDE drives ....

The Iyonix seems to accept the vast majority of drives that will work on a
RiscPC's ADFS or IDEFS and more, but it itself is no spring chicken so no
current drives will work with it. We have taken the precaution of buying in
fifty odd 120/160GB drives that are compatible.
They are 160GB but we follow Castle's recomendation to format them to 120GB.

Chris Evans

-- 
CJE Micro's / 4D                'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222             Fax: 01903 523679
chris@cjemicros.co.uk     http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex,     BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!

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#5855

On  9-Jul-2012, "Chris Bell (News)" <news@highpath.net> wrote:

> I can't format a Western Digital 80GB harddrive (brand new in a sealed
> bag)...
>
> Both HForm 2.54 (21 Jan 2003) and HForm 2.56 (12 Apr 2002) give the
> same repeating error, whatever parameters I try:
>
>   'Format error on this track'
>
> Does this suggest a duff harddrive?  Any help will be gratefully
> received.

I think most modern WD drives won't work on a RiscPC motherboard.

-- 
David Holden  -  APDL  -  <http://www.apdl.co.uk>

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#5861

In article <a60iimFi3kU1@mid.individual.net>,
   David Holden <SpamBin@apdl.co.uk> wrote:

> On  9-Jul-2012, "Chris Bell (News)" <news@highpath.net> wrote:

> > I can't format a Western Digital 80GB harddrive (brand new in a sealed
> > bag)...
> >
> > Both HForm 2.54 (21 Jan 2003) and HForm 2.56 (12 Apr 2002) give the
> > same repeating error, whatever parameters I try:
> >
> >   'Format error on this track'
> >
> > Does this suggest a duff harddrive?  Any help will be gratefully
> > received.

> I think most modern WD drives won't work on a RiscPC motherboard.

I guess that begs the question, are there ANY of Any sort that'll still
work from the Risc PC Mobo?

The last one "She" sourced as a replacement for her SARPC (80 Gigs) had to
be connected through the Unipod as the Mobo and HForm were a waste of time.

I guess the Solid state drive is one of the few remaining ways to go?

Thanks
Dave

-- 

Dave Triffid

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#5864

In article <52acef253cdave@triffid.co.uk>, Dave Symes
<URL:mailto:dave@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <a60iimFi3kU1@mid.individual.net>,
>    David Holden <SpamBin@apdl.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > On  9-Jul-2012, "Chris Bell (News)" <news@highpath.net> wrote:
> 
> > > I can't format a Western Digital 80GB harddrive (brand new in a sealed
> > > bag)...
> > >
> > > Both HForm 2.54 (21 Jan 2003) and HForm 2.56 (12 Apr 2002) give the
> > > same repeating error, whatever parameters I try:
> > >
> > >   'Format error on this track'
> > >
> > > Does this suggest a duff harddrive?  Any help will be gratefully
> > > received.
> 
> > I think most modern WD drives won't work on a RiscPC motherboard.
> 
> I guess that begs the question, are there ANY of Any sort that'll still
> work from the Risc PC Mobo?

Yes if you buy them from a RISC OS dealer like us or APDL

> The last one "She" sourced as a replacement for her SARPC (80 Gigs) had to
> be connected through the Unipod as the Mobo and HForm were a waste of time.
> 
> I guess the Solid state drive is one of the few remaining ways to go?

Yes and no. Not all adaptors will work with Acorn hardware:-(

so...  buy from a RISC OS dealer like us, APDL or someone who will take it
back if it doesn't work.

n.b. Some drives/systems will fail on first HForming but appear to work on a
retry, this often means that the drive will then occationally 'lock up' when
writing and can corrupt your disc. Drives with that symptom should not be
used if you value your data!

Chris Evans

-- 
CJE Micro's / 4D                'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222             Fax: 01903 523679
chris@cjemicros.co.uk     http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex,     BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!

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