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Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro

From Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.std.c
Subject Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro
Date 2021-09-30 08:38 -0700
Organization None to speak of
Message-ID <87lf3ehy4v.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> (permalink)
References <20210930012112$48d9@zira.vinc17.org> <87pmsqizrh.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <20210930105413$d6e8@zira.vinc17.org>

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Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> writes:
> In article <87pmsqizrh.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>,
>   Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> writes:
>> > In ISO C99:TC3 to C17, 7.12p4:
>> >
>> >   The macro INFINITY expands to a constant expression of type float
>> >   representing positive or unsigned infinity, if available; else to a
>> >   positive constant of type float that overflows at translation time.
>> >
>> > Consider the "else" case. It is said that INFINITY expands to a
>> > constant and that it overflows, so that it is not in the range of
>> > representable values of float.
>> >
>> > But in 6.4.4p2:
>> >
>> >   Each constant shall have a type and the value of a constant shall
>> >   be in the range of representable values for its type.
>> >
>> > which would imply that INFINITY expands to a value in the range of
>> > representable values of float, contradicted by 7.12p4.
>> >
>> > Same issue in the current C2x draft N2596 (7.12p7 and 6.4.4p2).
>
>> 6.4.4p2 is a constraint.  It doesn't make it impossible to write code
>> that violates that constraint.
>
> Yes, but the issue here is that the standard mandates the implementation
> to violate a constraint, which is rather different from the case where a
> user writes buggy code.

No, it doesn't force the implementation to violate a constraint.  It
says that a *program* that uses the INFINITY macro violates a constraint
(if the implementation doesn't support infinities).

Constraints apply to programs, not to implementations.

It means that if a program assumes that INFINITY is meaningful, and it's
compiled for a target system where it isn't, a diagnostic is guaranteed.
And again, it might have made more sense to say that INFINITY is not
defined for such implementations (as is done for the NAN macro), but
perhaps there was existing practice.

Here's what the C99 Rationale says:

    What is INFINITY on machines that do not support infinity? It should
    be defined along the lines of: #define INFINITY 9e99999f, where
    there are enough 9s in the exponent so that the value is too large
    to represent as a float, hence, violates the constraint of 6.4.4
    Constants.  In addition, the number classification macro FP_INFINITE
    should not be defined. That allows an application to test for the
    existance of FP_INFINITE as a safe way to determine if infinity is
    supported; this is the feature test macro for support for infinity.

The problem with this is that the standard itself doesn't say that
FP_INFINITE is defined conditionally.

>> If I understand correctly, it means that if an infinite value is not
>> available, then a program that refers to the INFINITY macro (in a
>> context where it's treated as a floating-point expression) violates that
>> constraint, resulting in a required diagnostic.
>
> I think the consequence is more than a diagnostic (which may yield a
> compilation failure in practice, BTW): AFAIK, the standard does not
> give a particular definition for "overflows at translation time",
> which would make it undefined behavior as usual for overflows.

The meaning seems clear enough to me.  It's a floating constant whose
mathematical value is outside the range of float, such as 9e99999f.
And yes, evaluating it (if the mandatory diagnostic does not cause
compilation to fail) causes undefined behavior.  I think the intent is
that a portable program should check whether infinities are supported
before trying to evaluate INFINITY, but that intent is not well
reflected in the standard.

I don't think I have access to an implementation that doesn't support
infinities, so I don't know how this is handled in practice.  Given the
near universal adoption of IEEE floating-point, it's probably reasonably
safe to assume that infinities are supported unless your program needs
to be painfully portable.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Philips
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-09-30 01:47 +0000
  Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-09-29 19:05 -0700
    Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-09-30 11:24 +0000
      Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-09-30 08:38 -0700
        Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-10-01 09:05 +0000
          Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-01 12:20 -0700
            Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-10-04 09:26 +0000
              Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-04 10:34 -0700
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2021-10-05 13:53 +0100
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-10-06 00:12 +0000
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-10-07 07:05 -0700
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-07 07:51 -0700
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-08 11:41 -0700
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-10-09 19:49 +0000
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-09 14:28 -0700
          Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Jakob Bohm <jb-usenet@wisemo.com.invalid> - 2021-10-01 22:55 +0200
            Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-01 14:26 -0700
          Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-10-08 08:30 -0700
            Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-08 11:40 -0700
              Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-12-17 21:00 -0800
            Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-10-09 20:05 +0000
              Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-11 12:40 -0400
              Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-12-17 21:02 -0800
      Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-10-08 00:02 -0700
        Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-10-09 20:17 +0000
          Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-11 12:40 -0400
            Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-11 12:39 -0700
              Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-11 21:04 -0400
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-10-11 18:33 -0700
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-01-03 12:03 -0800
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-01-03 16:45 -0500
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-01-03 14:36 -0800
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2022-01-04 02:10 -0500
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-01-17 10:09 -0800
              Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-01-03 11:55 -0800
            Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-10-26 10:01 +0000
              Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-26 12:53 -0400
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-10-28 09:38 +0000
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-28 11:23 -0400
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-10-29 12:12 +0000
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-10-30 02:08 -0400
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-11-08 02:44 +0000
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-11-08 01:46 -0500
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-11-08 10:56 +0000
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-11-08 13:50 -0500
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-11-09 02:48 +0000
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-11-09 00:50 -0500
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-11-09 10:12 +0000
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-11-09 12:51 -0500
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-11-10 12:48 +0000
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-11-10 12:03 -0500
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-11-12 23:17 +0000
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-11-12 21:03 -0500
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-11-15 09:18 +0000
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-11-15 14:25 -0500
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-11-16 01:17 +0000
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-11-16 10:29 -0500
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-12-08 10:09 +0000
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Derek Jones <derek@NOSPAM-knosof.co.uk> - 2021-11-16 11:32 +0000
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-11-16 10:35 -0500
          Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-11-09 07:13 -0800
            Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-11-10 13:16 +0000
              Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-11-10 08:02 -0800
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-11-10 15:01 -0800
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-11-13 00:30 +0000
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-12-02 22:14 +0000
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-01-03 12:48 -0800
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-11-12 23:55 +0000
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-11-15 07:59 -0800
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-11-15 23:39 +0000
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-11-15 20:00 -0500
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-11-16 01:28 +0000
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-11-16 01:57 +0000
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-11-16 09:52 -0500
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-11-16 19:00 -0800
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Vincent Lefevre <vincent-news@vinc17.net> - 2021-12-08 10:56 +0000
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-01-03 12:56 -0800
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2022-01-03 22:45 -0800
                Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-01-17 05:35 -0800
  Re: contradiction about the INFINITY macro Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-09-30 03:20 +0100

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