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Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior?

From Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com>
Newsgroups comp.std.c
Subject Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior?
Date 2023-08-19 05:23 +0000
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <20230818220442.950@kylheku.com> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <864jkz7hrm.fsf@linuxsc.com> <e043af84-3153-4097-9505-666869fcf727n@googlegroups.com> <867cpu5h8w.fsf@linuxsc.com> <20230816235712.844@kylheku.com> <86wmxr4t22.fsf@linuxsc.com>

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On 2023-08-19, Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> wrote:
> Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> writes:
>
>> I'm all about the diagnosis.  Even on machines in which all
>> representations are values, and therefore safe, a program whose
>> external effect or output depends on unintialized data, and is
>> therefore nondeterministic (a bad form of nondeterministic), is a
>> repugnant program.
>>
>> I'd like to have clear rules which allow an implementation to to
>> go great depths to diagnose all such situations, while remaining
>> conforming.  (The language agrees that those situations are
>> erroneous, granting the tools license to diagnose.)
>
> The C standard allows compilers to do whatever analysis they
> want and to issue diagnostics for whatever conditions or
> circumstances they choose.

And stop translating? If some use of an uninitialized object
isn't undefined, and you make the diagnostic a fatal error,
then you don't have a conforming compiler at that point.

> What you want is orthogonal to what is being discussed.

I'm mainly concerned about run-time.

If the program hasn't invoked undefined behavior, I don't thinkk it's
conforming to inject gratuitous diagnostics into the program's run-time,
such that they appear as if they were its output on stderr or stdout.
Those diagnostics have to go to some special debug port.

Also, not conforming to arbitrarily terminate the program. (Other
than in some weasly language lawyering way, by declaring that it
has exceeded an implementation limit or something.)

-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca

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Thread

Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 22:16 -0700
  Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 16:33 +0100
    Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 11:56 -0700
      Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 20:54 +0100
        Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-21 14:26 -0700
          Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-07-21 23:39 +0100
          Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-12 17:00 -0700
            Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Martin Uecker <ma.uecker@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 23:41 -0700
              Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-15 21:06 -0700
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Martin Uecker <ma.uecker@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 22:40 -0700
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-16 23:13 -0700
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-17 07:08 +0000
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Martin Uecker <ma.uecker@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 12:44 -0700
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-19 05:04 +0000
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Martin Uecker <ma.uecker@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 01:36 -0700
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-08-19 09:18 -0400
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Martin Uecker <ma.uecker@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 11:12 -0700
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-18 20:20 -0700
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-19 05:23 +0000
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-18 22:56 -0700
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Martin Uecker <ma.uecker@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 12:52 -0700
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-26 19:25 -0700
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-08-27 08:31 +0000
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-29 04:35 -0700
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-08-30 19:53 +0000
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-30 17:40 -0700
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-08-31 18:18 +0000
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-05 05:39 -0700
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-09-05 17:03 -0700
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Jakob Bohm <jb-usenet@wisemo.com.invalid> - 2023-09-07 17:09 +0200
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-07 17:19 +0100
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Jakob Bohm <jb-usenet@wisemo.com.invalid> - 2023-09-08 23:12 +0200
                Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-09-08 22:31 +0100
    Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-22 06:40 +0000
      Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Martin Uecker <ma.uecker@gmail.com> - 2023-07-22 06:03 -0700
        Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-25 21:53 -0700
      Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-16 11:11 -0700
  Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-07-21 17:42 +0000
    Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Jakob Bohm <jb-usenet@wisemo.com.invalid> - 2023-07-24 07:53 +0200
      Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-25 21:57 -0700
  Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-03 13:13 -0700
    Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-03 15:20 -0700
      Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Martin Uecker <ma.uecker@gmail.com> - 2023-08-05 01:15 -0700
      Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-16 09:19 -0700
      Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-16 19:51 +0000
      Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-16 20:03 +0000
        Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-16 13:43 -0700
          Re: Does reading an uninitialized object have undefined behavior? Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-16 21:08 +0000

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