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Re: Time for a new language?

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 6/16/2011 3:25 PM, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 06/ 7/11 08:17 PM, tm wrote:
>>
>> I consider Seed7 higher level than Java and C++ because Seed7
>> defines things in libraries that Java and C++ have hard-coded in
>> their compilers. So I consider arrays defined with an abstract data
>> type as higher level than hard-coded arrays.
>>
>> To see how hard-coded things work, look at the C conversions for
>> numeric values. Chapter A6 of ANSI-K&R distinguishes between:
>> Intergral Promotion
>> Integral Converions
>> Integer and Floating
>> Floating Types
>> Arithmetic Conversions
>> Pointers and Integers
>> The rules are not simple, and they changed between K&R-C and ANSI-C.
>
> They may not be simple, but they are well understood and contribute to
> the metaphors that enable C programmers to understand each other's code.
>

yeah, and generally the rules make sense...


>> All this rules are hardcoded in every C compiler. Seed7 has no such
>> rules. There are just definitions of operators and functions for
>> numeric types. I consider that this simplification makes Seed7
>> (besides other things) higher level than C.
>
> Isn't that a recipe for write only code? The reader not only has to
> follow the logic the code attempts to express, but also the rules used
> to express the logic.
>

yeah...

in my case, I think it much more sensible to hard-code all the basics, 
and allow plugins for the rest...


for example, consider a person wants to add "some feature X" to the 
language, how may they do it?...

well, they can create a loadable component which:
plugs itself into the parser, so that the new syntax may be parsed;
plugs itself into the bytecode compiler so, that any new AST structures 
can be compiled;
maybe plugs into the bytecode VM, adding support for any new opcodes;
adds stuff for any new types;
...

ultimately, this is probably good enough, and if one really wants, an 
extension can be written which allows calling back into the language to 
implement extensions.


>> I consider things, that everybody can define, as higher level than
>> hard-coded do what I mean concepts (that only authors of compilers
>> and interpreters can change).
>
> That's a bit like saying Leggo is the highest level toy...
>

yeah, Lego is probably a lower-level toy, if anything because one is 
building things out of blocks, rather than out of pre-formed pieces.

FWIW, ASM also allows building programs out of large numbers of 
fundamental parts, and this is generally called low-level.

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Re: Time for a new language? tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-06-07 01:17 -0700
  Re: Time for a new language? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-07 03:07 -0700
    Re: Time for a new language? tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-06-07 04:21 -0700
  Re: Time for a new language? "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-06-07 11:26 +0100
    Re: Time for a new language? pete <pfiland@mindspring.com> - 2011-06-07 07:45 -0400
      Re: Time for a new language? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-07 13:02 -0700
    Re: Time for a new language? tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-06-07 12:49 -0700
  Re: Time for a new language? gremnebulin <peterdjones@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-13 16:36 -0700
  Re: Time for a new language? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-17 10:25 +1200
    Re: Time for a new language? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-16 23:11 -0700
      Re: Time for a new language? tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-06-17 01:39 -0700
        Re: Time for a new language? "H.J. Sander Bruggink" <sander.bruggink@uni-due.de> - 2011-06-17 11:05 +0200
          Re: Time for a new language? tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-06-17 02:54 -0700
        Re: Time for a new language? BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-17 10:55 -0700
    Re: Time for a new language? tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-06-17 00:55 -0700

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