Re: Uptime for OpenVMS

From	billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Newsgroups	comp.os.vms
Subject	Re: Uptime for OpenVMS
Date	2011-05-12 00:06 +0000
Organization	Computing Sciences Dept., University of Scranton
Message-ID	<930mjaF659U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(6 earlier) <iqejkv$2ia$2@dont-email.me> <9303saFtlqU3@mid.individual.net> <iqema8$ltc$1@dont-email.me> <9305cpFtlqU4@mid.individual.net> <iqf63n$57t$1@Iltempo.Update.UU.SE>

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In article <iqf63n$57t$1@iltempo.update.uu.se>,
	Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> writes:
> On 2011-05-11 13.12, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> In article<iqema8$ltc$1@dont-email.me>,
>> 	glen herrmannsfeldt<gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>  writes:
>>> Bill Gunshannon<billg999@cs.uofs.edu>  wrote:
>>>
>>> (snip, I wrote)
>>>>> For most, the disk has to keep running throughout.  For a diskless
>>>>> client off an NFS server, even that isn't needed.  (Diskless NFS
>>>>> clients survive a server reboot.)
>>>
>>>> Well, if you were considering possible disk failure, how about I build
>>>> a system with just a ramdisk?  :-)  No moving parts beyond electrons.
>>>
>>>> And talk about being old. Unless they have fixed it (which I
>>>> doubt as I never saw anyone in the linux crowd admit it was done
>>>> wrong) Linux versions of NFS are, in some way, stateful and a reboot
>>>> of the server requires a reboot of all the clients.  One of the
>>>> reasons I have resisted moving anything here to Linux as we rely
>>>> very heavily on NFS and I can't be rebooting all our clients if I
>>>> have to take the fileserver down for any reason.
>>>
>>> Yes, all my diskless NFS work was with Sun hosts.  I had many
>>> survive a server reboot.  Then once we sold a server, while the
>>> clients sat there waiting for it to come back...
>>>
>>> Stateless (except for file lock) is supposed to be part of NFS.
>>
>> True.  And yet, people still wonder why I think Linux is pure crap.
> 
> Linux is crap. That's old news. :-)
> But it's moving crap, which in some ways is better than things sitting 
> still sometimes.
> 
> However, as for NFS statelessness, it's not totally true.
> For an NFS client to be able to continue operating after the server have 
> rebooted, the server must not have changed its hardware configuration, 
> or else the device handles that the NFS client holds becomes invalid.

That can't be exactly true.  With systems other than Linux I have
taken down one piece of hardware and brought up another totally
different piece of hardware and as long as the new system presented
the same exported file systems as the previous one the clients would
pick it up and march on.  With Linux, iunless I actually umount
everything NFS beforehand. all I have to do is reboot the server and
all is lost.  The clients can not umount the partitions because the
server knows they are no longer mounted and istead of just saying
"OK" to the umount command it will NAK all the reuests leaving the
client still holding a mountpoint it can not clear. Thus, a reboot
of the client is necessary.

Nothing other than Linux has ever exhipited this behavior.

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
billg999@cs.scranton.edu |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>

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Uptime for OpenVMS abrsvc <dansabrservices@yahoo.com> - 2011-05-10 11:54 -0700
  Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Marc Schlensog <mschlens+news@gmail.com> - 2011-05-10 21:11 +0200
    Re: Uptime for OpenVMS abrsvc <dansabrservices@yahoo.com> - 2011-05-10 12:23 -0700
      Re: Uptime for OpenVMS koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-10 15:59 -0500
      Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-05-11 13:59 +0200
  Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Rich Jordan <jordan@ccs4vms.com> - 2011-05-10 16:21 -0700
    Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Rich Jordan <jordan@ccs4vms.com> - 2011-05-13 09:59 -0700
  Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> - 2011-05-11 03:38 -0700
    Re: Uptime for OpenVMS koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-11 07:32 -0500
      Re: Uptime for OpenVMS billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-11 13:04 +0000
    Re: Uptime for OpenVMS "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> - 2011-05-11 17:20 -0400
  Re: Uptime for OpenVMS BillPedersen <pedersen@ccsscorp.com> - 2011-05-11 04:01 -0700
    Re: Uptime for OpenVMS billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-11 13:09 +0000
      Re: Uptime for OpenVMS JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-05-11 09:15 -0400
        Re: Uptime for OpenVMS billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-11 14:55 +0000
          Re: Uptime for OpenVMS ChrisQ <meru@devnull.com> - 2011-05-17 16:22 +0100
            Re: Uptime for OpenVMS helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---undress to reply) - 2011-05-17 18:35 +0000
              Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Keith Parris <keithparris_deletethis@yahoo.com> - 2011-05-17 14:15 -0600
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS ChrisQ <meru@devnull.com> - 2011-05-17 22:48 +0100
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS seasoned_geek <roland@logikalsolutions.com> - 2011-05-21 08:54 -0700
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-05-25 10:30 +0200
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2011-05-17 23:19 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-05-18 11:25 +0200
            Re: Uptime for OpenVMS MG <marcogbNO@SPAMxs4all.nl> - 2011-05-17 20:41 +0200
              Re: Uptime for OpenVMS "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> - 2011-05-17 16:37 -0400
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS MG <marcogbNO@SPAMxs4all.nl> - 2011-05-17 22:47 +0200
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS ChrisQ <meru@devnull.com> - 2011-05-17 22:33 +0100
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-18 09:54 -0500
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-05-21 06:45 +0200
              Re: Uptime for OpenVMS koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-18 09:50 -0500
              Re: Uptime for OpenVMS seasoned_geek <roland@logikalsolutions.com> - 2011-05-21 08:25 -0700
            Re: Uptime for OpenVMS koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-18 09:44 -0500
              Re: Uptime for OpenVMS "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> - 2011-05-18 11:15 -0400
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-18 09:30 -0700
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> - 2011-05-18 21:08 -0400
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-18 19:13 -0700
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS MG <marcogbNO@SPAMxs4all.nl> - 2011-05-19 11:31 +0200
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-05-23 13:10 +0200
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> - 2011-05-19 13:22 -0400
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS John Wallace <johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-05-19 10:53 -0700
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-05-21 06:36 +0200
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-18 11:59 -0500
      Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Single Stage to Orbit <alex.buell@munted.org.uk> - 2011-05-11 16:43 +0100
        Re: Uptime for OpenVMS JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-05-11 12:47 -0400
      Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-11 10:23 -0600
        Re: Uptime for OpenVMS John Wallace <johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-05-11 09:48 -0700
          Re: Uptime for OpenVMS billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-11 17:01 +0000
            Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-11 11:02 -0600
            Re: Uptime for OpenVMS glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-05-11 18:13 +0000
              Re: Uptime for OpenVMS billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-11 18:46 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-05-11 18:59 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-11 19:12 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-11 17:28 -0600
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-12 00:06 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-11 18:37 -0600
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-05-12 09:08 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-12 08:36 -0500
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-12 14:12 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Bob Eager <rde42@spamcop.net> - 2011-05-11 19:26 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-11 20:40 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Bob Eager <rde42@spamcop.net> - 2011-05-11 21:12 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Single Stage to Orbit <alex.buell@munted.org.uk> - 2011-05-11 23:33 +0100
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Bob Eager <rde42@spamcop.net> - 2011-05-12 05:49 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Steve Thompson <smt@vgersoft.com> - 2011-05-12 16:56 -0400
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-05-13 01:21 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Bob Eager <rde42@spamcop.net> - 2011-05-13 06:01 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-13 00:54 -0600
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-13 01:13 -0600
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Bob Eager <rde42@spamcop.net> - 2011-05-13 07:32 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-13 01:49 -0600
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Bob Eager <rde42@spamcop.net> - 2011-05-13 08:45 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Steve Thompson <smt@vgersoft.com> - 2011-05-13 11:38 -0400
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-13 11:18 -0600
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2011-05-13 17:24 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-05-13 13:38 -0400
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-13 12:45 -0600
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> - 2011-05-13 15:11 -0400
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-05-13 21:18 -0400
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2011-05-14 02:35 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-05-13 23:24 -0400
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-14 02:32 -0600
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS seasoned_geek <roland@logikalsolutions.com> - 2011-05-21 08:09 -0700
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2011-05-14 13:24 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> - 2011-05-14 11:04 -0400
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS "Robert A. Brooks" <rab@aitchpee.com> - 2011-05-16 11:24 -0400
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-05-18 11:34 +0200
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS "John Reagan" <johnrreagan@earthlink.net> - 2011-05-18 07:03 -0400
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS seasoned_geek <roland@logikalsolutions.com> - 2011-05-21 07:54 -0700
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS "Robert A. Brooks" <rab@aitchpee.com> - 2011-05-23 10:00 -0400
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-14 02:30 -0600
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-05-14 09:28 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Wilm Boerhout <wboerhout-remove@this-gmail.com> - 2011-05-14 15:41 +0200
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-05-14 20:55 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-05-15 17:10 +0200
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Single Stage to Orbit <alex.buell@munted.org.uk> - 2011-05-15 20:17 +0100
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-05-18 11:37 +0200
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS seasoned_geek <roland@logikalsolutions.com> - 2011-05-21 08:13 -0700
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS seasoned_geek <roland@logikalsolutions.com> - 2011-05-21 08:12 -0700
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-05-13 21:12 +0200
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Bob Eager <rde42@spamcop.net> - 2011-05-13 19:43 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-13 14:27 -0600
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-05-13 20:05 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-13 14:28 -0600
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Bob Eager <rde42@spamcop.net> - 2011-05-13 19:41 +0000
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-13 11:16 -0600
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-16 15:49 -0500
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-18 09:59 -0500
                Re: Uptime for OpenVMS ChrisQ <meru@devnull.com> - 2011-05-17 16:31 +0100
            Re: Uptime for OpenVMS drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2011-05-12 09:22 -0500
          Re: Uptime for OpenVMS glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2011-05-11 18:09 +0000
            Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Bob Eager <rde42@spamcop.net> - 2011-05-11 19:23 +0000
        Re: Uptime for OpenVMS JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-05-11 12:56 -0400
          Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-11 11:04 -0600
            Re: Uptime for OpenVMS moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2011-05-11 17:20 +0000
              Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-11 11:52 -0600
            Re: Uptime for OpenVMS JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-05-11 13:21 -0400
          Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Ken Fairfield <ken.fairfield@gmail.com> - 2011-05-11 12:16 -0700
            Re: Uptime for OpenVMS jbriggs444 <jbriggs444@gmail.com> - 2011-05-12 05:45 -0700
            Re: Uptime for OpenVMS koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-12 08:17 -0500
          Re: Uptime for OpenVMS onedbguru <onedbguru@yahoo.com> - 2011-05-11 17:03 -0700
            Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-05-12 11:08 +0200
          Re: Uptime for OpenVMS jbriggs444 <jbriggs444@gmail.com> - 2011-05-12 05:30 -0700
            Re: Uptime for OpenVMS koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2011-05-12 08:39 -0500
            Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Henry Crun <mike@rechtman.com> - 2011-05-12 18:41 +0300
        Re: Uptime for OpenVMS seasoned_geek <roland@logikalsolutions.com> - 2011-05-13 08:49 -0700
          Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-13 11:19 -0600
            Re: Uptime for OpenVMS billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) - 2011-05-13 17:57 +0000
              Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2011-05-13 12:46 -0600
              Re: Uptime for OpenVMS "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> - 2011-05-13 15:16 -0400
  Re: Uptime for OpenVMS "R.A.Omond" <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> - 2011-05-11 13:58 +0100
    Re: Uptime for OpenVMS MG <marcogbNO@SPAMxs4all.nl> - 2011-05-11 15:31 +0200
      Re: Uptime for OpenVMS abrsvc <dansabrservices@yahoo.com> - 2011-05-11 06:37 -0700
      Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Rich Jordan <jordan@ccs4vms.com> - 2011-05-11 07:42 -0700
  Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Homer Shoemaker <homer.shoemaker@gmail.com> - 2011-05-12 09:07 -0700
  Re: Uptime for OpenVMS Joe Bloggs <JBloggs@acme.com> - 2011-05-12 09:35 -0700

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