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Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <> DS ? Newbie language.

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Herbert,

A reply to your "no good for starters" claim :

> A program is written in order to be executed. To write a program
> which can be executed on nearly none of the current computers
> (without first installing additional software like DOSBox) doesn't
> make much sense. And therefore it doesn't also make much sense for a 
> "starter" to start with 16 bit coding instead of the much easier
> 32 bit coding.

1) In relation to "without first installing additional software ".   Most 
programming languages need you to install software and configure it.  Heaps 
of it.   To create 16-bit programs al you need are three executables (an 
editor, the assembler and the linker) and *perhaps* (something like) DOSBox.

2) Its "much easier 32 bit coding" was, IIRC related to having all segments 
ontop of each other.   Funny thing that, as that is exactly what the "tiny" 
memory model does for a 16-bit program.   Yes, because it makes things 
simple  (my question was just about me thinking "outside the box").

As for using 32-bit (or 64-bit) coding instead of 16-bit ?   I don't think 
it matters much - though I think that the best way to learn actual 
programming is /not/ to have too much support from libraries and the like.

When you have it becomes too easy to create monstrocities instead of the way 
more apropriate (smaller, faster) processor commands.    One example I still 
remember is how someone using a higher language isolated a bit in a value : 
(SomeValue & 2^SomeBit) <> 0.    Yuck.

Bottom line : When learning to really program* I think that using a "dumb" 
target is best.  16-bit DOS programming would be a good choice, both because 
it offers only basic I/O support as well as most people nowerdays have 
computers and thus can do it anywhere (school as well as at home).

*as opposed to slap-dashing some scripting / high-level language together.

Though I think that programming machine code on a micro controller, possibly 
mounted on a model car or a robotic something, would be even better : most 
people need, especially when starting, to see a direct result of what they 
have put their energy into.

In other words : Its not about which language or platform you use, as long 
as it teaches you what makes the bottom layer (the processor and I/O) tick, 
as well as makes you aware that everything comes with a cost (execution time 
and/or resource wise).   Those are lessons that should be learned early on.

I hope that answers your (second, new) question.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <>  DS ? "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2021-12-04 08:56 +0100
  Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <>  DS ? "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2021-12-04 12:47 +0000
    Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <>  DS ? "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2021-12-04 15:57 +0100
      Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <>  DS ? "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2021-12-04 16:13 +0000
        Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <>  DS ? "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2021-12-04 18:41 +0100
          Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <>  DS ? "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2021-12-04 20:28 +0000
            Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <>  DS ? "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2021-12-05 08:56 +0100
              Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <>  DS ? "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2021-12-05 10:32 +0000
                Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <>  DS ? "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2021-12-05 13:11 +0100
                Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <>  DS ? "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2021-12-05 12:21 +0000
                Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <>  DS ? "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2021-12-05 14:59 +0100
        Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <>  DS ? "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2021-12-04 19:00 +0100
  Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <>  DS ? JJ <jj4public@gmail.com> - 2021-12-05 14:27 +0700
    Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <>  DS ? "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2021-12-05 12:43 +0100
  Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <> DS ? "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2021-12-05 22:25 -0800
    Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <> DS ? Mateusz Viste <mateusz@xyz.invalid> - 2021-12-06 09:30 +0100
    Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <> DS ? "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2021-12-06 14:33 +0100
      Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <> DS ? Herbert Kleebauer <klee@unibwm.de> - 2021-12-06 19:01 +0100
        Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <> DS ? "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2021-12-06 21:16 +0100
          Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <> DS ? Herbert Kleebauer <klee@unibwm.de> - 2021-12-07 00:19 +0100
            Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <> DS ? Mateusz Viste <mateusz@xyz.invalid> - 2021-12-07 09:31 +0100
            Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <> DS ? "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2021-12-07 09:37 +0100
            Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <> DS ?   Newbie language. "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2021-12-08 10:16 +0100
              Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <> DS ? Newbie language. Herbert Kleebauer <klee@unibwm.de> - 2021-12-08 17:39 +0100
                Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <> DS ? Newbie language. "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2021-12-08 17:37 +0000
                Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <> DS ? Newbie language. Herbert Kleebauer <klee@unibwm.de> - 2021-12-08 22:31 +0100
                Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <> DS ? Newbie language. "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2021-12-09 21:43 +0000
                Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <> DS ? Newbie language. "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2021-12-08 22:19 +0100
      Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <> DS ? "Alexei A. Frounze" <alexfrunews@gmail.com> - 2021-12-06 22:40 -0800
        Re: How to access stack-based data (strings) when SS <> DS ? "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2021-12-07 10:17 +0100

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