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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #71714 > unrolled thread
| Started by | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-08-20 02:12 -0400 |
| Last post | 2025-08-21 18:15 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 107 — 18 participants |
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Old Hardware Redux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-20 02:12 -0400
Re: Old Hardware Redux "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-20 12:38 +0200
Re: Old Hardware Redux Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2025-08-20 13:30 +0200
Re: Old Hardware Redux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-20 12:33 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-20 13:52 +0200
Re: Old Hardware Redux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-20 14:10 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> - 2025-08-20 16:16 +0200
Re: Old Hardware Redux Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> - 2025-08-26 19:23 +1000
Re: Old Hardware Redux Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-27 19:49 +0200
Re: Old Hardware Redux "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-27 20:37 +0200
Re: Old Hardware Redux Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-28 08:56 +0200
Re: Old Hardware Redux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-28 03:57 -0400
Re: Old Hardware Redux Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-28 10:12 +0200
Re: Old Hardware Redux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-28 04:21 -0400
Re: Old Hardware Redux Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-28 12:05 +0200
Re: Old Hardware Redux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-28 06:28 -0400
Re: Old Hardware Redux Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-08-28 11:13 +0300
Re: Old Hardware Redux Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-28 12:07 +0200
Re: Old Hardware Redux Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> - 2025-08-28 18:58 +1000
Re: Old Hardware Redux "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-20 21:02 +0200
Re: Old Hardware Redux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-30 09:04 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-30 15:09 +0200
Re: Old Hardware Redux Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-30 17:51 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-30 22:43 +0200
Re: Old Hardware Redux not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-08-21 07:54 +1000
Re: Old Hardware Redux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-21 10:11 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2025-08-21 11:51 +0200
Re: Old Hardware Redux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-21 11:31 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-21 11:45 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-21 13:29 +0200
Re: Old Hardware Redux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-21 12:49 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2025-08-21 13:44 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-21 14:28 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-21 21:30 +0200
Re: Old Hardware Redux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-21 13:05 -0700
Re: Old Hardware Redux "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-21 22:21 +0200
Re: Old Hardware Redux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 11:03 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-22 09:50 -0400
Re: Old Hardware Redux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-22 22:31 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-08-22 09:40 +1000
Re: Old Hardware Redux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-22 02:55 -0400
Re: Old Hardware Redux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-21 11:37 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-21 18:05 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-08-22 09:57 +1000
Re: Old Hardware Redux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-22 00:36 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-08-22 09:28 +1000
Re: Old Hardware Redux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-22 09:46 -0400
Re: Old Hardware Redux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 19:45 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-23 00:01 -0400
Re: Old Hardware Redux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-23 04:53 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-23 10:50 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-23 10:22 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-24 02:25 -0400
Re: Old Hardware Redux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-24 19:19 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-23 20:21 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 10:55 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 20:02 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 12:30 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-25 18:13 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-26 10:41 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-24 22:14 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-24 01:09 -0400
Re: Old Hardware Redux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 10:58 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 20:12 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-24 14:33 -0700
Re: Old Hardware Redux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-25 01:47 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-24 21:12 -0700
Re: Old Hardware Redux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-25 04:34 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-24 21:49 -0700
Re: Old Hardware Redux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-25 05:33 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-25 01:34 -0400
Re: Old Hardware Redux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-25 18:31 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-26 03:57 -0400
Re: Old Hardware Redux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-26 19:58 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 12:44 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 12:40 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 12:34 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-25 18:24 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-26 03:47 -0400
Re: Old Hardware Redux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-26 20:01 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-27 00:09 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-23 10:43 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-24 00:48 -0400
Re: Old Hardware Redux not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-08-23 14:09 +1000
Re: Old Hardware Redux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-23 06:59 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-08-23 13:02 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-08-24 09:13 +1000
Re: Old Hardware Redux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-23 23:37 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-24 03:18 -0400
Re: Old Hardware Redux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-23 10:48 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-23 10:22 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-23 18:02 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-23 23:44 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-24 01:04 -0400
Re: Old Hardware Redux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 20:20 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-25 12:24 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-25 18:10 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-26 03:42 -0400
Re: Old Hardware Redux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-26 19:51 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-20 17:21 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-21 06:51 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-21 03:15 -0400
Re: Old Hardware Redux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-21 10:14 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-22 01:05 +0000
Re: Old Hardware Redux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-22 03:00 -0400
Re: Old Hardware Redux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-21 10:45 +0100
Re: Old Hardware Redux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-21 18:15 +0000
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-20 02:12 -0400 |
| Subject | Old Hardware Redux |
| Message-ID | <nw6dnbwEp92r-jj1nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com> |
Have a rather old Acer 57xx series i3 based laptop. Belonged to my late brother - Vista originally. Bought it for him. REAL HDD, xVGA plug, one USB3, physical wired network jack and built-in DVD. Kinda big and heavy ... but as an old fart it's easier to read the bigger screen. Touch-pad IS kinda too small alas. DID just order a new power supply - have NO idea where the original is. Booted - it wasn't Vista anymore but MX "Liberetto". Anyway, got a new power supply. The battery is FRIED, but one is on order. Note it's EASY to replace, NOT like in more modern units. Did the full disto update on Liberetto, so the unit is pretty good now. Short future, a Samsung 8xx series replacement 'HDD'. Not TOO expensive and ought to speed it all up by 30-50%. Fun with 'DD' ! ANYway ... as old as this laptop is, with a small/mid Linux it can STILL serve very well. Don't be TOO eager to put hardware into The Bin. The Problem is less often the hardware and MORE with ultra-bloated modern systems. Hmm ... VirtualBox IS on it ... an XP VM maybe, just for old times sake ? :-)
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-20 12:38 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <t6lgnlx96v.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #71714 |
On 2025-08-20 08:12, c186282 wrote: > Have a rather old Acer 57xx series i3 based > laptop. Belonged to my late brother - Vista > originally. Bought it for him. > > REAL HDD, xVGA plug, one USB3, physical > wired network jack and built-in DVD. > Kinda big and heavy ... but as an old fart > it's easier to read the bigger screen. > Touch-pad IS kinda too small alas. USB3 is not that old. The spec is from 2008, but it appeared in the market in 2010 (says chatgpt). Ok, a decade. Older than I thought. Time flies. > > DID just order a new power supply - have NO > idea where the original is. > > Booted - it wasn't Vista anymore but MX > "Liberetto". > > Anyway, got a new power supply. The battery > is FRIED, but one is on order. Note it's > EASY to replace, NOT like in more modern > units. > > Did the full disto update on Liberetto, so > the unit is pretty good now. > > Short future, a Samsung 8xx series replacement > 'HDD'. Not TOO expensive and ought to speed it > all up by 30-50%. Fun with 'DD' ! > > ANYway ... as old as this laptop is, with > a small/mid Linux it can STILL serve very > well. Don't be TOO eager to put hardware > into The Bin. The Problem is less often > the hardware and MORE with ultra-bloated > modern systems. Not enough RAM kills usability of old systems. > Hmm ... VirtualBox IS on it ... an XP VM > maybe, just for old times sake ? :-) > > -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-20 13:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <1084bk6$2ia1m$2@paganini.bofh.team> |
| In reply to | #71745 |
On 20.08.2025 12:38 Carlos E.R. wrote: > Not enough RAM kills usability of old systems. Not enough CPU power too. Most current website are overloaded with crap and are rendered very slowly on old machines.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-20 12:33 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <1084bpn$7mtq$26@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #71755 |
On 20/08/2025 12:30, Marco Moock wrote: > On 20.08.2025 12:38 Carlos E.R. wrote: > >> Not enough RAM kills usability of old systems. > > Not enough CPU power too. > > Most current website are overloaded with crap and are rendered very > slowly on old machines. > Yes. and crap MIPS per Watt. However that is not an excuse to go out and waste money of bleeding edge shit, unless you are A Gamer™ 10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old... -- “when things get difficult you just have to lie” ― Jean Claud Jüncker
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-20 13:52 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ohpgnlxhmi.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #71756 |
On 2025-08-20 13:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 20/08/2025 12:30, Marco Moock wrote: >> On 20.08.2025 12:38 Carlos E.R. wrote: >> >>> Not enough RAM kills usability of old systems. >> >> Not enough CPU power too. >> >> Most current website are overloaded with crap and are rendered very >> slowly on old machines. >> > Yes. and crap MIPS per Watt. > > However that is not an excuse to go out and waste money of bleeding edge > shit, unless you are A Gamer™ > > 10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old... > My previous desktop computer was killed for: * Nvidia refused to upgrade the proprietary driver for that card, so eventually had to switch to Nouveau * VMware refused to run unless certain CPU instructions for virtualisation existed. Virtualbox continued to run, but migration of machines failed for me. * Motherboard was maxed with 8 GiB, would not accept more. * Swaping on rotating rust started sucking after some kernel/libc update, because of fragmentation causing the disk heads to do a lot of seeking. The cure was switching to SSD. My previous laptop had more issues: * 4 GiB * Slow CPU, fanless * Too small display. So I bit the bullet and purchased a desktop machine with 64 GiB and a laptop with 32. I expect them to last 10 or 15 years. -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-20 14:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <1084hg0$b9ca$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #71758 |
On 20/08/2025 12:52, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2025-08-20 13:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 20/08/2025 12:30, Marco Moock wrote: >>> On 20.08.2025 12:38 Carlos E.R. wrote: >>> >>>> Not enough RAM kills usability of old systems. >>> >>> Not enough CPU power too. >>> >>> Most current website are overloaded with crap and are rendered very >>> slowly on old machines. >>> >> Yes. and crap MIPS per Watt. >> >> However that is not an excuse to go out and waste money of bleeding >> edge shit, unless you are A Gamer™ >> >> 10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old... >> > > My previous desktop computer was killed for: > > * Nvidia refused to upgrade the proprietary driver for that card, so > eventually had to switch to Nouveau > > * VMware refused to run unless certain CPU instructions for > virtualisation existed. Virtualbox continued to run, but migration of > machines failed for me. > > * Motherboard was maxed with 8 GiB, would not accept more. > > * Swaping on rotating rust started sucking after some kernel/libc > update, because of fragmentation causing the disk heads to do a lot of > seeking. The cure was switching to SSD. > > My previous laptop had more issues: > > * 4 GiB > > * Slow CPU, fanless > > * Too small display. > > > So I bit the bullet and purchased a desktop machine with 64 GiB and a > laptop with 32. I expect them to last 10 or 15 years. > Looking back at my desktops they generally last 5-10 years after I buy them - usually secondhand. This one is a 2015 model - It has at least 5 years more in it. It may outlast me Laptops are more frail and get harder treatment -- "Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold." ― Confucius
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| From | Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-20 16:16 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <7dlbakl6pj5blemm3d5kq54ks59hltu1rc@joergwalther.my-fqdn.de> |
| In reply to | #71759 |
The Natural Philosopher wrote: >Laptops are more frail and get harder treatment Depends on which model you look at. I exclusively use secondhand Thinkpads and there still is no single one that failed in any way. I just bought an X280 (12') model from 2018 to use at work and expect that it will at least work until I am retired in 4 years time. An acquaintance of mine uses a 20+ year old Thinkpad as a kind of server with iirc Damn Small Linux or something similar. Most "consumer level" notebooks otoh are imho not to be trusted. :) -jw- -- And now for something completely different...
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| From | Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-26 19:23 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <r0b0ol-382.ln1@otis.foo> |
| In reply to | #71760 |
Groovy hepcat Joerg Walther was jivin' in comp.os.linux.misc on Thu, 21
Aug 2025 12:16 am. It's a cool scene! Dig it.
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>>Laptops are more frail and get harder treatment
>
> Depends on which model you look at. I exclusively use secondhand
> Thinkpads and there still is no single one that failed in any way. I
> just bought an X280 (12') model from 2018 to use at work and expect
> that it will at least work until I am retired in 4 years time. An
> acquaintance of mine uses a 20+ year old Thinkpad as a kind of server
> with iirc Damn Small Linux or something similar. Most "consumer level"
> notebooks otoh are imho not to be trusted. :)
My experience with Thinkpads is completely different. I've had several
(all second hand), of several different models, mainly because they're
quite cheap. Every single one has broken down on me fairly quickly. So
I've sworn off them.
I'm currently using a second hand Toshiba Portege, and other than a
blotchy screen, it works well for me (so far - touch wood).
--
----- Dig the NEW and IMPROVED news sig!! -----
-------------- Shaggy was here! ---------------
Ain't I'm a dawg!!
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| From | Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-27 19:49 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <108ngg1$2rad6$1@news1.tnib.de> |
| In reply to | #72398 |
Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> wrote: >Groovy hepcat Joerg Walther was jivin' in comp.os.linux.misc on Thu, 21 >Aug 2025 12:16 am. It's a cool scene! Dig it. > >> The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> >>>Laptops are more frail and get harder treatment >> >> Depends on which model you look at. I exclusively use secondhand >> Thinkpads and there still is no single one that failed in any way. I >> just bought an X280 (12') model from 2018 to use at work and expect >> that it will at least work until I am retired in 4 years time. An >> acquaintance of mine uses a 20+ year old Thinkpad as a kind of server >> with iirc Damn Small Linux or something similar. Most "consumer level" >> notebooks otoh are imho not to be trusted. :) > > My experience with Thinkpads is completely different. I've had several >(all second hand), of several different models, mainly because they're >quite cheap. Every single one has broken down on me fairly quickly. So >I've sworn off them. A Thinkpad MUST have T or X Letters. Never, L, R or E. Greetings Marc -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " | Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-27 20:37 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <nsv3olx0ce.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #72406 |
On 2025-08-27 19:49, Marc Haber wrote: > Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> wrote: >> Groovy hepcat Joerg Walther was jivin' in comp.os.linux.misc on Thu, 21 >> Aug 2025 12:16 am. It's a cool scene! Dig it. >> >>> The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>> >>>> Laptops are more frail and get harder treatment >>> >>> Depends on which model you look at. I exclusively use secondhand >>> Thinkpads and there still is no single one that failed in any way. I >>> just bought an X280 (12') model from 2018 to use at work and expect >>> that it will at least work until I am retired in 4 years time. An >>> acquaintance of mine uses a 20+ year old Thinkpad as a kind of server >>> with iirc Damn Small Linux or something similar. Most "consumer level" >>> notebooks otoh are imho not to be trusted. :) >> >> My experience with Thinkpads is completely different. I've had several >> (all second hand), of several different models, mainly because they're >> quite cheap. Every single one has broken down on me fairly quickly. So >> I've sworn off them. > > A Thinkpad MUST have T or X Letters. Never, L, R or E. Hum. Mine is "ThinkPad L14 Gen 3" (Lenovo), bought March 2023. I'm very satisfied so far. -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-28 08:56 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <108ouil$mtff$1@news1.tnib.de> |
| In reply to | #72409 |
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >On 2025-08-27 19:49, Marc Haber wrote: >> Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> wrote: >>> My experience with Thinkpads is completely different. I've had several >>> (all second hand), of several different models, mainly because they're >>> quite cheap. Every single one has broken down on me fairly quickly. So >>> I've sworn off them. >> >> A Thinkpad MUST have T or X Letters. Never, L, R or E. > >Hum. > >Mine is "ThinkPad L14 Gen 3" (Lenovo), bought March 2023. I'm very >satisfied so far. L is only a Thinkpad by Marketing. Greetings Marc -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " | Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-28 03:57 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <WuWdnVHTgZp1li31nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #72406 |
On 8/27/25 1:49 PM, Marc Haber wrote: > Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> wrote: >> Groovy hepcat Joerg Walther was jivin' in comp.os.linux.misc on Thu, 21 >> Aug 2025 12:16 am. It's a cool scene! Dig it. >> >>> The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>> >>>> Laptops are more frail and get harder treatment >>> >>> Depends on which model you look at. I exclusively use secondhand >>> Thinkpads and there still is no single one that failed in any way. I >>> just bought an X280 (12') model from 2018 to use at work and expect >>> that it will at least work until I am retired in 4 years time. An >>> acquaintance of mine uses a 20+ year old Thinkpad as a kind of server >>> with iirc Damn Small Linux or something similar. Most "consumer level" >>> notebooks otoh are imho not to be trusted. :) >> >> My experience with Thinkpads is completely different. I've had several >> (all second hand), of several different models, mainly because they're >> quite cheap. Every single one has broken down on me fairly quickly. So >> I've sworn off them. > > A Thinkpad MUST have T or X Letters. Never, L, R or E. Yep ! IBM started outsourcing around then. The early clones were NOT very good. Maybe SHOULD have been, but weren't. Anyway, IBM has now dropped the commercial market and gone back to super-servers and Total Systems. Their stock remains high, blue-chip. Very adaptive corp all in all. It DOES, kind of off-press, keep contributing to the highest-tech chips and such. Expect IBM to be good for a LONG time yet. STARTED with Card Tabulators and typewriters ... impressive. Anyway, skip ThinkPads and think about the earlier Dells instead. Much more solid.
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| From | Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-28 10:12 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <108p322$sm18$1@news1.tnib.de> |
| In reply to | #72475 |
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >On 8/27/25 1:49 PM, Marc Haber wrote: >> Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> wrote: >>> My experience with Thinkpads is completely different. I've had several >>> (all second hand), of several different models, mainly because they're >>> quite cheap. Every single one has broken down on me fairly quickly. So >>> I've sworn off them. >> >> A Thinkpad MUST have T or X Letters. Never, L, R or E. > > Yep ! IBM started outsourcing around then. The early > clones were NOT very good. I am talking about the current machines, and the ones being sold about in the last decade. That was way after the brand was moved to Lenovo. Not only are those machines nearly unbreakable, the hardware maintenance manual is publicly availalbe, and with the FRU¹ number you can buy your parts on Ebay. That's very convenient if you want to use the machine beyond its warranty period. Greetings Marc ¹ Field Replacable Unit, I don't know how common that abbreviation is in English common language -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " | Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-28 04:21 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <nXidnRGQu5cfjC31nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #72478 |
On 8/28/25 4:12 AM, Marc Haber wrote: > c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >> On 8/27/25 1:49 PM, Marc Haber wrote: >>> Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> wrote: >>>> My experience with Thinkpads is completely different. I've had several >>>> (all second hand), of several different models, mainly because they're >>>> quite cheap. Every single one has broken down on me fairly quickly. So >>>> I've sworn off them. >>> >>> A Thinkpad MUST have T or X Letters. Never, L, R or E. >> >> Yep ! IBM started outsourcing around then. The early >> clones were NOT very good. > > I am talking about the current machines, and the ones being sold about > in the last decade. That was way after the brand was moved to Lenovo. > > Not only are those machines nearly unbreakable, the hardware > maintenance manual is publicly availalbe, and with the FRU¹ number you > can buy your parts on Ebay. That's very convenient if you want to use > the machine beyond its warranty period. > > Greetings > Marc > > ¹ Field Replacable Unit, I don't know how common that abbreviation is > in English common language Lenovo BECAME good ... but didn't really START that way. It was just "Fake-IBM" for awhile ....
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| From | Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-28 12:05 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <108p9lt$15iuu$1@news1.tnib.de> |
| In reply to | #72481 |
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: > Lenovo BECAME good ... but didn't really START that way. > > It was just "Fake-IBM" for awhile .... You might not know that IBM-labeled Thinkpads were built by Lenovo for years. The first machines that Lenovo was completely responsible for sitll had the IBM label. The first Lenovo-labeled Thinkpads were almost as good as their predecessors. The great IBM keyboard was the first thing that died. The new keyboard is inferior but still good. Today's Thinkpads are no longer what they used to be but they still have their advantages. Greetings Marc -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " | Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-28 06:28 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <HricncTs44nfsi31nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #72495 |
On 8/28/25 6:05 AM, Marc Haber wrote: > c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >> Lenovo BECAME good ... but didn't really START that way. >> >> It was just "Fake-IBM" for awhile .... > > You might not know that IBM-labeled Thinkpads were built by Lenovo for > years. I'm hardly 16 ... I remember Very Well. > The first machines that Lenovo was completely responsible for > sitll had the IBM label. The first Lenovo-labeled Thinkpads were > almost as good as their predecessors. The great IBM keyboard was the > first thing that died. The new keyboard is inferior but still good. Yep, started pretty good, in IBMs image, but it didn't last ..... > Today's Thinkpads are no longer what they used to be but they still > have their advantages. Ummm ... I'll buy Dell or even HP instead. Have lots of laps now - NONE are IBM/Lenovo.
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| From | Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-28 11:13 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <sm0iki7eue3.fsf@lakka.kapsi.fi> |
| In reply to | #72406 |
Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> writes: > A Thinkpad MUST have T or X Letters. Never, L, R or E. What about the W series which became the P series, as I recall? I was quite happy with my P50 at a previous job where I ran some heavier stuff on it. Currently have a T16 but it's mostly a terminal.
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| From | Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-28 12:07 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <108p9ok$15mn4$1@news1.tnib.de> |
| In reply to | #72479 |
Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> wrote: >Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> writes: >> A Thinkpad MUST have T or X Letters. Never, L, R or E. > >What about the W series which became the P series, as I recall? Almost as good as the T, but overpowered and overengineered, and the constant renaming makes it hard to keep track. Greetings Marc, writing this on a 2023 T14 AMD 2. Gen which has a Diva for a Touchpad. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " | Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
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| From | Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-28 18:58 +1000 |
| Message-ID | <ibi5ol-t0a.ln1@otis.foo> |
| In reply to | #72406 |
Groovy hepcat Marc Haber was jivin' in comp.os.linux.misc on Thu, 28 Aug
2025 03:49 am. It's a cool scene! Dig it.
> Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> wrote:
>>Groovy hepcat Joerg Walther was jivin' in comp.os.linux.misc on Thu,
>>21 Aug 2025 12:16 am. It's a cool scene! Dig it.
>>
>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>>Laptops are more frail and get harder treatment
>>>
>>> Depends on which model you look at. I exclusively use secondhand
>>> Thinkpads and there still is no single one that failed in any way. I
>>> just bought an X280 (12') model from 2018 to use at work and expect
>>> that it will at least work until I am retired in 4 years time. An
>>> acquaintance of mine uses a 20+ year old Thinkpad as a kind of
>>> server with iirc Damn Small Linux or something similar. Most
>>> "consumer level" notebooks otoh are imho not to be trusted. :)
>>
>> My experience with Thinkpads is completely different. I've had
>> several
>>(all second hand), of several different models, mainly because they're
>>quite cheap. Every single one has broken down on me fairly quickly. So
>>I've sworn off them.
>
> A Thinkpad MUST have T or X Letters. Never, L, R or E.
I didn't mention any of those letters, so I don't know where you're
coming from there.
However, I did accidentally tell a slight falsehood. I do have one
that hasn't broken down on me. But even that is not in such great
condition, and I don't use it anymore. I have cloth tape, similar to
duct tape, holding parts of it together.
And just in case you're wondering, I can't find any of the above
letters on it. The only mark I can see identifying the model is "Yoga".
--
----- Dig the NEW and IMPROVED news sig!! -----
-------------- Shaggy was here! ---------------
Ain't I'm a dawg!!
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-20 21:02 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <smihnlxflg.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #71759 |
On 2025-08-20 15:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 20/08/2025 12:52, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> On 2025-08-20 13:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>> On 20/08/2025 12:30, Marco Moock wrote: >>>> On 20.08.2025 12:38 Carlos E.R. wrote: >>>> >>>>> Not enough RAM kills usability of old systems. >>>> >>>> Not enough CPU power too. >>>> >>>> Most current website are overloaded with crap and are rendered very >>>> slowly on old machines. >>>> >>> Yes. and crap MIPS per Watt. >>> >>> However that is not an excuse to go out and waste money of bleeding >>> edge shit, unless you are A Gamer™ >>> >>> 10 year old technology is fine, Just not 20 year old... >>> >> >> My previous desktop computer was killed for: >> >> * Nvidia refused to upgrade the proprietary driver for that card, so >> eventually had to switch to Nouveau >> >> * VMware refused to run unless certain CPU instructions for >> virtualisation existed. Virtualbox continued to run, but migration of >> machines failed for me. >> >> * Motherboard was maxed with 8 GiB, would not accept more. >> >> * Swaping on rotating rust started sucking after some kernel/libc >> update, because of fragmentation causing the disk heads to do a lot of >> seeking. The cure was switching to SSD. >> >> My previous laptop had more issues: >> >> * 4 GiB >> >> * Slow CPU, fanless >> >> * Too small display. >> >> >> So I bit the bullet and purchased a desktop machine with 64 GiB and a >> laptop with 32. I expect them to last 10 or 15 years. >> > Looking back at my desktops they generally last 5-10 years after I buy > them - usually secondhand. Mine last about 10 years in use. I try to, at least. I haven't done an actual log. > > This one is a 2015 model - It has at least 5 years more in it. It may > outlast me > > Laptops are more frail and get harder treatment I handle my laptops very carefully, like eggs ;-) My first laptop, purchased maybe 2009, died recently. The backlight failed. So, not my handling. It was a heavy unit, the battery was exchangeable, with a click. Had a DVD drive. R/W? I don't remember. The second one was very light, I bought it for travelling. It still works, but the display is too small, and it is too slow. I use it for watching movies, connecting the HDMI port directly to the sitting room display. It can not handle 4K movies, though. Not enough power for "real time" conversion by VLC. The third one has ample power and memory. I would have liked it bigger, but I bought it also for travel. 315 mm wide screen. -- Cheers, Carlos.
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