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Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive?

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  Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? Oguz Kaan Ocal <oguzkaanocal3169@hotmail.com> - 2026-05-10 11:48 +0300
    Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-10 12:25 +0000
    Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-10 19:29 +0200
    Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-10 17:40 +0000
      Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-10 17:08 -0700
        Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-12 19:55 +0000
          Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-12 15:44 -0700
            Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-12 23:42 +0000
              [OT] Booting Windows system partition on a VM (was: Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive?) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 09:48 +0100
                Re: [OT] Booting Windows system partition on a VM (was: Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive?) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-13 19:47 +0000
            Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 04:38 +0000
      Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-05-11 07:07 -0400
      Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 12:52 +0100
        Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-12 19:55 +0000
          Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 09:49 +0100
    Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-10 18:21 +0000
    Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 20:08 +0000
      Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-11 14:02 +0000
    Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-05-10 20:14 -0400
    Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-05-11 04:34 +0200
      Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-11 03:29 +0000
        Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 01:08 -0400
        Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 11:14 +0200
          Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 12:37 -0400
        Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-05-12 07:26 +0200
          Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 01:32 -0400
    Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows drive? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 12:32 +0100
    Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows Jack Strangio  <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> - 2026-05-14 04:20 +0000
      Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 10:24 +0100
        Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Jack Strangio  <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> - 2026-05-18 05:34 +0000
          Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-18 05:42 +0000
            iPhones and Linux - and Android Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-05-18 06:38 -0700
              Re: iPhones and Linux - and Android rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-18 15:59 +0000
              Re: iPhones and Linux - and Android Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-19 02:15 +0000
          Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Jack Strangio  <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> - 2026-05-18 05:53 +0000
            [OT] USENET etiquette (was: Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-20 09:17 +0100
              Re: [OT] USENET etiquette "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-20 13:11 +0200
                Re: [OT] USENET etiquette OCTADE <news0@octade.net> - 2026-05-21 19:03 +0000
          iPhones and Linux Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-05-18 06:32 -0700
            Re: iPhones and Linux "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-18 18:17 +0200
              Re: iPhones and Linux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-19 00:58 +0000
                Re: iPhones and Linux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-18 21:48 -0400
            Re: iPhones and Linux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-19 02:17 +0000
              Re: iPhones and Linux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-19 00:01 -0400
              Re: iPhones and Linux Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-05-18 21:11 -0700
                Re: iPhones and Linux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-19 01:10 -0400
                Re: iPhones and Linux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-19 07:01 +0000
                Re: iPhones and Linux "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-19 10:51 +0200
                  Re: iPhones and Linux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-19 17:32 +0000
                    Re: iPhones and Linux "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-19 22:39 +0200
                    Re: iPhones and Linux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-20 00:00 -0400
              Re: iPhones and Linux Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-22 18:46 +0000
                Re: iPhones and Linux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-23 05:59 +0000
                  Re: iPhones and Linux Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-23 09:21 +0200
                    Re: iPhones and Linux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-23 08:52 +0000
                      Re: iPhones and Linux Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-23 14:08 +0200
                        Re: iPhones and Linux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-24 03:41 +0000
                          Re: iPhones and Linux Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-24 10:37 +0200
                            Re: iPhones and Linux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-24 23:04 +0000
                              Re: iPhones and Linux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-24 22:32 -0400
                        Re: iPhones and Linux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-24 00:17 -0400
                          Re: iPhones and Linux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-24 05:59 +0000
                            Re: iPhones and Linux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-24 02:49 -0400
                              Re: iPhones and Linux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-24 18:28 +0000
                    Re: iPhones and Linux Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-23 08:54 +0000
                      Re: iPhones and Linux Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-23 12:35 +0100
                      Re: iPhones and Linux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-24 04:53 +0000
                  Re: iPhones and Linux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-23 17:37 +0000
      Re: Thinking about moving to Linux permanently, should I keep my Windows rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-14 17:17 +0000

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#86878 — Re: iPhones and Linux

On Mon, 18 May 2026 18:17:08 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> In the "official" Linux support forums I know, people do not refuse to
> engage; we simply do not know Apple things.

Even in the IRL Linux group only a couple of people know anything about 
Apple. I'm not one of them. My ex has an iPhone and wanted to do some sort 
of video chat. 'Just open AppleSpeak' or whatever it's called. Sorry, 
babe, no can do on my Android.

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#86880 — Re: iPhones and Linux

On 5/18/26 20:58, rbowman wrote:
> On Mon, 18 May 2026 18:17:08 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> In the "official" Linux support forums I know, people do not refuse to
>> engage; we simply do not know Apple things.
> 
> Even in the IRL Linux group only a couple of people know anything about
> Apple. I'm not one of them. My ex has an iPhone and wanted to do some sort
> of video chat. 'Just open AppleSpeak' or whatever it's called. Sorry,
> babe, no can do on my Android.

   Apple is almost a hermetically-sealed little universe.
   That's been their Business Plan for a LONG time. Sell
   'status', rake in the $$$, lock out all others.

   It's operating systems WERE based on a BSD, but they
   massively customized (mostly for THEIR insular gain)
   so it's not really a UNIX anymore.

   The Apple-think systems grate against my brain, NOT
   'intuitive', often cryptic, maybe ok for 9-year-olds
   who can cope with "put three fingers here here and
   here and swirl them around Just So". IMHO yer probably
   better off with Android - simple and straight-up. It
   IS a Sort-Of Linux ......

   DID find an Android I installed as a VM ... but on
   a PC it wasn't very useful, it's intended for phones
   and similar portable comm devices.

   Some Linux distros include "Erlang" - invented by
   the Ericsson phone people. You can program stuff
   in that lang - but the portable-device-control feel
   is kinda obvious. It's more than 'ladder logic'
   or other industrial-control systems, but not hugely
   more sophisticated. Again, "Work comm devices".

   Hmm ... now on a PI or BBB fitted with relay/sensor
   boards with 'security system' or 'machine control'
   or such in mind then Erlang might make better sense.

   Anyone make a DOS phone ? I'd buy  :-)

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#86886 — Re: iPhones and Linux

On Mon, 18 May 2026 06:32:29 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote:

> ... and the Apple people says they do not engage with Linux.

Was this before or after Apple started offering the option of Linux
containers on Macs? Maybe worth reminding them that Apple *does* now
“engage with Linux”?

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#86887 — Re: iPhones and Linux

On 5/18/26 22:17, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Mon, 18 May 2026 06:32:29 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> 
>> ... and the Apple people says they do not engage with Linux.
> 
> Was this before or after Apple started offering the option of Linux
> containers on Macs? Maybe worth reminding them that Apple *does* now
> “engage with Linux”?

   But not MUCH, not as a consistent policy.

   Apple does what serves their bottom line.

   Total Control is their goal.

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#86889 — Re: iPhones and Linux

On 2026-05-18 19:17, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Mon, 18 May 2026 06:32:29 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> 
>> ... and the Apple people says they do not engage with Linux.
> 
> Was this before or after Apple started offering the option of Linux
> containers on Macs? Maybe worth reminding them that Apple *does* now
> “engage with Linux”?

Actually, quite recently. I simply asked if anyone had used the icloudpd 
program, and if so, had they seen similar problems recently, and I was 
run out of the house with comments like "Look at that idiot - what will 
be the next - people asking on advice for garden tools?"

-- 
Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California

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#86895 — Re: iPhones and Linux

On 5/19/26 00:11, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> On 2026-05-18 19:17, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 May 2026 06:32:29 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>
>>> ... and the Apple people says they do not engage with Linux.
>>
>> Was this before or after Apple started offering the option of Linux
>> containers on Macs? Maybe worth reminding them that Apple *does* now
>> “engage with Linux”?
> 
> Actually, quite recently. I simply asked if anyone had used the icloudpd 
> program, and if so, had they seen similar problems recently, and I was 
> run out of the house with comments like "Look at that idiot - what will 
> be the next - people asking on advice for garden tools?"

   Garden tools are always interesting :-)

   Hey, which ones hold an edge, won't break if
   you really put on some leverage ???

   As for Apple ... due to its Business Plan of
   Total Control, I'd rate it as a Total Loss for
   any other system. Don't even bother - they
   will see you as The Enemy.

   Apple is a parallel universe - can't really
   get there from here.

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#86898 — Re: iPhones and Linux

On Mon, 18 May 2026 21:11:52 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote:

> On 2026-05-18 19:17, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 18 May 2026 06:32:29 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>
>>> ... and the Apple people says they do not engage with Linux.
>>
>> Was this before or after Apple started offering the option of Linux
>> containers on Macs? Maybe worth reminding them that Apple *does*
>> now “engage with Linux”?
>
> Actually, quite recently. I simply asked if anyone had used the
> icloudpd program, and if so, had they seen similar problems
> recently, and I was run out of the house with comments like "Look at
> that idiot - what will be the next - people asking on advice for
> garden tools?"

Go back and point out that, while they might not actually be a bunch
of liars, but certainly the left hand has no idea what the right hand
is doing.

All too common in these large, overweight, unwieldy corporates,
unfortunately ...

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#86901 — Re: iPhones and Linux

On 2026-05-19 06:11, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> On 2026-05-18 19:17, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 May 2026 06:32:29 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>
>>> ... and the Apple people says they do not engage with Linux.
>>
>> Was this before or after Apple started offering the option of Linux
>> containers on Macs? Maybe worth reminding them that Apple *does* now
>> “engage with Linux”?
> 
> Actually, quite recently. I simply asked if anyone had used the icloudpd 
> program, and if so, had they seen similar problems recently, and I was 
> run out of the house with comments like "Look at that idiot - what will 
> be the next - people asking on advice for garden tools?"
> 

I can tell you that at openSUSE we are not like that. We don't have a 
culture of insulting users. :-(

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#86911 — Re: iPhones and Linux

On Tue, 19 May 2026 10:51:17 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> I can tell you that at openSUSE we are not like that. We don't have a
> culture of insulting users. :-(

That does not apply to r/openSUSE. I ruffled some feathers by saying the 
new Agama installer wasn't very intuitive. The thread was started by a 
newbie who made the grievous error of hitting Install and winding up with 
a tty session.  

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#86912 — Re: iPhones and Linux

On 2026-05-19 19:32, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 19 May 2026 10:51:17 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> I can tell you that at openSUSE we are not like that. We don't have a
>> culture of insulting users. :-(
> 
> That does not apply to r/openSUSE. I ruffled some feathers by saying the
> new Agama installer wasn't very intuitive. The thread was started by a
> newbie who made the grievous error of hitting Install and winding up with
> a tty session.

We are not happy about the Agama installer, and we have said so many 
times, but that one is a published error: the default installation is 
text mode. You do have to know that. You do have to read the 
instructions. And you will be told that because it is the truth.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#86924 — Re: iPhones and Linux

On 5/19/26 13:32, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 19 May 2026 10:51:17 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> I can tell you that at openSUSE we are not like that. We don't have a
>> culture of insulting users. :-(
> 
> That does not apply to r/openSUSE. I ruffled some feathers by saying the
> new Agama installer wasn't very intuitive. The thread was started by a
> newbie who made the grievous error of hitting Install and winding up with
> a tty session.

   Hey, a LOT of this stuff isn't "clear".

   TTY is ok sometimes, IF you're from the
   CP/M or DOS era or before. But it's not
   really the reason you install an Amiga-like
   system.

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#86988 — Re: iPhones and Linux

Le 19-05-2026, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> a écrit :
> On Mon, 18 May 2026 06:32:29 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>
>> ... and the Apple people says they do not engage with Linux.
>
> Was this before or after Apple started offering the option of Linux
> containers on Macs? Maybe worth reminding them that Apple *does* now
> “engage with Linux”?

I didn't follow that, I was to believe it was dockers people who managed
to help dockers containers run transparently in a Linux VM.

-- 
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

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#86993 — Re: iPhones and Linux

On 22 May 2026 18:46:12 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

> Le 19-05-2026, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> a écrit :
>>
>> On Mon, 18 May 2026 06:32:29 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>
>>> ... and the Apple people says they do not engage with Linux.
>>
>> Was this before or after Apple started offering the option of Linux
>> containers on Macs? Maybe worth reminding them that Apple *does*
>> now “engage with Linux”?
>
> I didn't follow that, I was to believe it was dockers people who
> managed to help dockers containers run transparently in a Linux VM.

Docker has always been a Linux-specific technology. Microsoft tried
supporting it on Windows, but that turned out to be too hard, so it
has given up.

So nothing to do with anything macOS-specific.

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#86995 — Re: iPhones and Linux

Lawrence D´Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>On 22 May 2026 18:46:12 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
>> Le 19-05-2026, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> a écrit :
>>>
>>> On Mon, 18 May 2026 06:32:29 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... and the Apple people says they do not engage with Linux.
>>>
>>> Was this before or after Apple started offering the option of Linux
>>> containers on Macs? Maybe worth reminding them that Apple *does*
>>> now “engage with Linux”?
>>
>> I didn't follow that, I was to believe it was dockers people who
>> managed to help dockers containers run transparently in a Linux VM.
>
>Docker has always been a Linux-specific technology. Microsoft tried
>supporting it on Windows, but that turned out to be too hard, so it
>has given up.
>
>So nothing to do with anything macOS-specific.

Docker and podman make heavy use of Namespaces in Linux. Having that
Docker on another OS means to rewrite most, if not all of the
technology.

Linux used to be behind BSD in that regard. The BSD world had jails
for three decades now, which was one order of magnitude better than
running Linux processes in chroot. Since Linux Namespaces came around,
things have become very much different. I have lost knowledge about
whether BSD jails have grown and are up to par again to Linux in these
days.

Greetings
Marc
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber         |   " Questions are the         | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE   |     Beginning of Wisdom "     | 
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

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#86999 — Re: iPhones and Linux

On Sat, 23 May 2026 09:21:34 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

> Linux used to be behind BSD in that regard.

Linux used to be behind BSD in lots of ways -- in the network stack,
as well. Nowadays I’m not aware of any practical reason for running a
*BSD system, unless you want to experience what “Unix” computing was
like in the 1980s, and pretend that Microsoft and Apple never
happened.

> The BSD world had jails for three decades now, which was one order
> of magnitude better than running Linux processes in chroot.

chroot has been known as an ugly, leaky hack since its invention. It
was just the only way you could do any kind of privilege separation
across just about all systems that could call themselves “*nix”.

> Since Linux Namespaces came around, things have become very much
> different. I have lost knowledge about whether BSD jails have grown
> and are up to par again to Linux in these days.

At least as far as Docker goes, seems they alternate between
Docker-envy <https://wiki.freebsd.org/Docker> and a sort of
sour-grapes who-needs-it syndrome
<https://www.reddit.com/r/BSD/comments/r32fbi/eli5_why_does_the_freebsd_community_hate_docker/>.

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#87006 — Re: iPhones and Linux

Lawrence D´Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 23 May 2026 09:21:34 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
>> Linux used to be behind BSD in that regard.
>
>Linux used to be behind BSD in lots of ways -- in the network stack,
>as well. Nowadays I’m not aware of any practical reason for running a
>*BSD system, unless you want to experience what “Unix” computing was
>like in the 1980s, and pretend that Microsoft and Apple never
>happened.

Many people say that pf is superior to nftables, and at least OPNsense
has FreeBSD under the hood. And there is the license issue, with the
BSD license being much more liberal when you want to make a commercial
product out of open-source software.

The license thing is why it surprises me whenever a commercial product
moves from BSD to GNU/Linux as its base OS.

>> The BSD world had jails for three decades now, which was one order
>> of magnitude better than running Linux processes in chroot.
>
>chroot has been known as an ugly, leaky hack since its invention. It
>was just the only way you could do any kind of privilege separation
>across just about all systems that could call themselves “*nix”.

Agreed.

>> Since Linux Namespaces came around, things have become very much
>> different. I have lost knowledge about whether BSD jails have grown
>> and are up to par again to Linux in these days.
>
>At least as far as Docker goes, seems they alternate between
>Docker-envy <https://wiki.freebsd.org/Docker> and a sort of
>sour-grapes who-needs-it syndrome
><https://www.reddit.com/r/BSD/comments/r32fbi/eli5_why_does_the_freebsd_community_hate_docker/>.

Sad, but kind of expected. "you're holding it wrong" is a very common
stance of open source people.

Greetings
Marc
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber         |   " Questions are the         | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE   |     Beginning of Wisdom "     | 
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

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#87032 — Re: iPhones and Linux

On Sat, 23 May 2026 14:08:44 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

> Many people say that pf is superior to nftables, and at least
> OPNsense has FreeBSD under the hood. And there is the license issue,
> with the BSD license being much more liberal when you want to make a
> commercial product out of open-source software.

You mean “proprietary product”, not “commercial product”. There are
lots of commercial products built on Linux and built out of Linux, as
you may be aware. And a few of them are quite successful.

Some companies have tried to argue that the GPL is not
“business-friendly”. But it certainly is “competition-friendly” -- it
helps to ensure a level playing field and reduce barriers to entry --
which in turn means we end up with lots of products to choose from.

Some startups certainly tried to build on one or other of the BSDs, at
least back in the 1990s. I can remember a commentator saying that
these companies tended to build proprietary products that died with
them, if/when they went bust. So all the work was wasted -- it was
lifeblood drained out of the BSD ecosystem, leaving it poorer off than
before.

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#87054 — Re: iPhones and Linux

Lawrence D´Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 23 May 2026 14:08:44 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
>> Many people say that pf is superior to nftables, and at least
>> OPNsense has FreeBSD under the hood. And there is the license issue,
>> with the BSD license being much more liberal when you want to make a
>> commercial product out of open-source software.
>
>You mean “proprietary product”, not “commercial product”.

Yes, of course.

>There are
>lots of commercial products built on Linux and built out of Linux, as
>you may be aware. And a few of them are quite successful.

Yes, and most of them move to freemium models with an "enterprise
edition".

Greetings
Marc
-- 
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#87082 — Re: iPhones and Linux

On Sun, 24 May 2026 10:37:22 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

>> There are lots of commercial products built on Linux and built out
>> of Linux, as you may be aware. And a few of them are quite
>> successful.
>
> Yes, and most of them move to freemium models with an "enterprise
> edition".

That seems to be one good model for commercial success with Open
Source. That appears to be more achievable in the Linux world than in
the BSD one, doesn’t it?

I for one am not complaining that open-source companies have found a
way to make money. I make money off Open Source myself.

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#87085 — Re: iPhones and Linux

On 5/24/26 19:04, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sun, 24 May 2026 10:37:22 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> 
>>> There are lots of commercial products built on Linux and built out
>>> of Linux, as you may be aware. And a few of them are quite
>>> successful.
>>
>> Yes, and most of them move to freemium models with an "enterprise
>> edition".
> 
> That seems to be one good model for commercial success with Open
> Source. That appears to be more achievable in the Linux world than in
> the BSD one, doesn’t it?
> 
> I for one am not complaining that open-source companies have found a
> way to make money. I make money off Open Source myself.

   Use to use Kerio mail server ... it was NOT free.
   However it was good software for a small/medium
   biz - you could set up a sophisticated mail server
   with it easily. Worth the $$$

   The underlying Linux kernel is free ... add-ons
   won't always be.

   Yea yea ... you can make a mail server with the
   old free utils, but OMG !!! Been there - then
   bought Kerio. SO much better/easier.

   Best for-profit deal - Red Hat. It had put together
   a lot of extra stuff for multi/cluster computing
   and then scored big when IBM bought them. Under
   the IBM brand name it's THE most popular OS for
   their big minis/mainframes/clusters.

   Yes, there's still a significant market for
   minis/mainframes/clusters. Sometimes you need
   a whole LOT of power/capacity.

   Ah ... if I had the spare cash ... would LOVE
   one or two of those big black IBM server boxes !
   Not sure what I could DO with it, but it'd be
   So Cool !  :-)

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