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Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns

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  Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-20 02:46 -0400
    Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns JJenssen <joemajen@arcor.de> - 2025-08-20 12:09 +0200
    Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-20 12:49 +0200
      Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-20 12:23 +0100
    Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-20 08:54 -0700
      Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-21 10:20 +0100
        Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-21 17:54 +0000
        Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-21 13:59 -0700
          Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-22 00:19 +0000
          Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 11:14 +0100
    Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-08-21 00:05 +0000
      Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-20 23:39 -0400
        Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-21 10:21 +0100
          Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-22 09:29 -0400
            Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 19:49 +0100
              Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-23 00:11 -0400
                Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-23 10:56 +0100
                  Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-23 18:38 +0000
                    Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-23 20:06 +0100
                      Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 03:36 +0000
                        Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-24 11:31 +0100
                          Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-24 18:51 +0000
      Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 <jaworski1978@adres.pl> - 2025-08-21 10:44 +0200
        Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-21 10:22 +0100
          Re: Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 <jaworski1978@adres.pl> - 2025-08-21 14:12 +0200

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#71716 — Umpteen BILLIONS, Maybe a TRILLION, invested in "AI' - but Almost NO Returns

https://www.newsnationnow.com/business/tech/ai/invested-billions-ai-zero-return/

There has been over $30B in enterprise investments into generative
AI

5% of integrated AI pilots are extracting millions in
value'

AI systems fail due to their inability to learn and think in
ways humans can


. . .

   Um ... don't expect "AI" to be Just Like US.

   Be HAPPY if it's even a LITTLE Like Us.

   In any case, there has been VAST VAST investment
   in this tech - but it's returning almost NOTHING
   for all the investment.

   NOT a good business model.

   The evil GOAL ... disemploy almost all of the
   very annoying Humans.

   Guess they go into ghettos ... with an address
   to the local Soylent Green factory.

   BUT ... WHO then has the money to Buy Your Stuff ???

   That's the BIG Flaw in all this.

   Obsolete/broke people CAN'T buy your stuff.

   System error.

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#71739

You are right, bro - but where's the button to reset??


Am 20.08.25 um 08:46 schrieb c186282:
> https://www.newsnationnow.com/business/tech/ai/invested-billions-ai- 
> zero-return/
> 
> There has been over $30B in enterprise investments into generative
> AI
> 
> 5% of integrated AI pilots are extracting millions in
> value'
> 
> AI systems fail due to their inability to learn and think in
> ways humans can
> 
> 
> . . .
> 
>    Um ... don't expect "AI" to be Just Like US.
> 
>    Be HAPPY if it's even a LITTLE Like Us.
> 
>    In any case, there has been VAST VAST investment
>    in this tech - but it's returning almost NOTHING
>    for all the investment.
> 
>    NOT a good business model.
> 
>    The evil GOAL ... disemploy almost all of the
>    very annoying Humans.
> 
>    Guess they go into ghettos ... with an address
>    to the local Soylent Green factory.
> 
>    BUT ... WHO then has the money to Buy Your Stuff ???
> 
>    That's the BIG Flaw in all this.
> 
>    Obsolete/broke people CAN'T buy your stuff.
> 
>    System error.
> 
> 

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#71750

On 2025-08-20 08:46, c186282 wrote:
> https://www.newsnationnow.com/business/tech/ai/invested-billions-ai- 
> zero-return/
> 
> There has been over $30B in enterprise investments into generative
> AI
> 
> 5% of integrated AI pilots are extracting millions in
> value'
> 
> AI systems fail due to their inability to learn and think in
> ways humans can
> 
> 
> . . .
> 
>    Um ... don't expect "AI" to be Just Like US.
> 
>    Be HAPPY if it's even a LITTLE Like Us.
> 
>    In any case, there has been VAST VAST investment
>    in this tech - but it's returning almost NOTHING
>    for all the investment.
> 
>    NOT a good business model.
> 
>    The evil GOAL ... disemploy almost all of the
>    very annoying Humans.
> 
>    Guess they go into ghettos ... with an address
>    to the local Soylent Green factory.
> 
>    BUT ... WHO then has the money to Buy Your Stuff ???
> 
>    That's the BIG Flaw in all this.
> 
>    Obsolete/broke people CAN'T buy your stuff.
> 
>    System error.

Means you have to change the economy paradigm and start dishing the 
universal salary.

But that's a communism! The USA dies of infarct.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#71753

On 20/08/2025 11:49, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-08-20 08:46, c186282 wrote:
>> https://www.newsnationnow.com/business/tech/ai/invested-billions-ai- 
>> zero-return/
>>
>> There has been over $30B in enterprise investments into generative
>> AI
>>
>> 5% of integrated AI pilots are extracting millions in
>> value'
>>
>> AI systems fail due to their inability to learn and think in
>> ways humans can
>>
>>
>> . . .
>>
>>    Um ... don't expect "AI" to be Just Like US.
>>
>>    Be HAPPY if it's even a LITTLE Like Us.
>>
>>    In any case, there has been VAST VAST investment
>>    in this tech - but it's returning almost NOTHING
>>    for all the investment.
>>
>>    NOT a good business model.
>>
>>    The evil GOAL ... disemploy almost all of the
>>    very annoying Humans.
>>
>>    Guess they go into ghettos ... with an address
>>    to the local Soylent Green factory.
>>
>>    BUT ... WHO then has the money to Buy Your Stuff ???
>>
>>    That's the BIG Flaw in all this.
>>
>>    Obsolete/broke people CAN'T buy your stuff.
>>
>>    System error.
> 
> Means you have to change the economy paradigm and start dishing the 
> universal salary.
> 
> But that's a communism! The USA dies of infarct.
> 

Well that is not far from some kind of inevitable

As much as people like to pretend that nations are shaped by Great 
Thinkers  or Poltical Events, the reality is that the political events 
arise out of the technology that those nations adopt.

A horse drawn iron plough (plow) betas an Oox drawn wooden one hands down...

Mass-produced repeating rifles destroy a nation using bows and arrows. 
No matter how noble it is.

WE have already eliminated Labour as a meaningful force, with heavy 
machines, then we eliminated the clerk and the copy typist with 
computers, we will now eliminate the programmers with AI.

All that cheap production, but no one with the money to buy it...



-- 
Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich 
people by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason 
they are poor.

Peter Thompson

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#71763

On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 02:46:24 -0400
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

> In any case, there has been VAST VAST investment in this tech - but
> it's returning almost NOTHING for all the investment.
> 
> NOT a good business model.
> 
> The evil GOAL ... disemploy almost all of the very annoying Humans.
> 
> BUT ... WHO then has the money to Buy Your Stuff ???

This is the end result of decades of business culture that promotes
idiots who make impressive-sounding noises over people with actual
line-of-business knowledge and/or real management savvy - a bunch of
billionaire morons lighting money on fire in hopes of obsoleting the
workers they've already mostly reduced to wage-slaves out of pure
greed, with no consideration for whether the thing they're burning it
on will ever do the thing they hope it will* or whether their lunatic
gamble doesn't stand a real chance of cratering the very economy that
gives their billions any real-world value** in the first place.

* (It won't, at least not the particular technology that all their
  moron AI-startup CEO friends are all-in on.)
** (It does.)

Just *beyond* insane - reckless, irresponsible squandering for the sake
of nothing at all beyond sociopathic contempt for everyone they
consider beneath them. Sadly, we're not likely to get the "investors
jumping from windows" phase of the crash - that'd require a level of
basic self-awareness that these flesh-suit simulacra are simply not
capable of - but we can hope that in the fallout they might at least be
eaten alive by starving peasants.

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#71824

On 20/08/2025 16:54, John Ames wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 02:46:24 -0400
> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
> 
>> In any case, there has been VAST VAST investment in this tech - but
>> it's returning almost NOTHING for all the investment.
>>
>> NOT a good business model.
>>
>> The evil GOAL ... disemploy almost all of the very annoying Humans.
>>
>> BUT ... WHO then has the money to Buy Your Stuff ???
> 
> This is the end result of decades of business culture that promotes
> idiots who make impressive-sounding noises over people with actual
> line-of-business knowledge and/or real management savvy - a bunch of
> billionaire morons lighting money on fire in hopes of obsoleting the
> workers they've already mostly reduced to wage-slaves out of pure
> greed, with no consideration for whether the thing they're burning it
> on will ever do the thing they hope it will* or whether their lunatic
> gamble doesn't stand a real chance of cratering the very economy that
> gives their billions any real-world value** in the first place.
> 
All driven by the financial emancipation of consumers with far more 
money than sense..

> * (It won't, at least not the particular technology that all their
>    moron AI-startup CEO friends are all-in on.)
> ** (It does.)
> 
> Just *beyond* insane - reckless, irresponsible squandering for the sake
> of nothing at all beyond sociopathic contempt for everyone they
> consider beneath them. Sadly, we're not likely to get the "investors
> jumping from windows" phase of the crash - that'd require a level of
> basic self-awareness that these flesh-suit simulacra are simply not
> capable of - but we can hope that in the fallout they might at least be
> eaten alive by starving peasants.
> 
Don't hold back, Say what you think...
 From a European perspective the problem is that the USA is simply too 
rich for its level of wisdom

It plays with expensive toys while the rest of the world struggles to 
eat. And equates the pure dumb luck of inhabiting a continent stuffed 
with resources but not people, as a demonstration of innate superiority, 
rather than good fortune.


-- 
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace, 
community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"

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#71858

On Thu, 21 Aug 2025 10:20:44 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> It plays with expensive toys while the rest of the world struggles to
> eat. And equates the pure dumb luck of inhabiting a continent stuffed
> with resources but not people, as a demonstration of innate superiority,
> rather than good fortune.

As opposed to a little island light on natural resources that attempted to 
colonize the world to get raw materials and was really upset when the 
colonials developed their own value adding industries?

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#71875

On Thu, 21 Aug 2025 10:20:44 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> All driven by the financial emancipation of consumers with far more 
> money than sense..

There's a lot of things you can pin on consumer stupidity, but I doubt
this is one of 'em. It's probably in part a natural consequence of the
fact that sensible people may sometimes hire idiots/grifters by
mistake, but idiots/grifters, once they have a foothold, will pretty
much always hire more idiots/grifters, but in the US it got a big boost
from a catastrophic court verdict stating that the primary duty of
management in a publically-traded corporation was to the stockholders
and the actual health of the business was at best a secondary concern
(let alone little questions like "is what we're doing in any way
ethical?" or "do people even *want* what we're trying to sell them?")
Ed Zitron has a pretty good rundown on how this unfolded:

https://www.wheresyoured.at/tss/
https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-era-of-the-business-idiot/

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#71885

On Thu, 21 Aug 2025 13:59:25 -0700, John Ames wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Aug 2025 10:20:44 +0100 The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> All driven by the financial emancipation of consumers with far more
>> money than sense..
> 
> There's a lot of things you can pin on consumer stupidity, but I doubt
> this is one of 'em. It's probably in part a natural consequence of the
> fact that sensible people may sometimes hire idiots/grifters by mistake,
> but idiots/grifters, once they have a foothold, will pretty much always
> hire more idiots/grifters, but in the US it got a big boost from a
> catastrophic court verdict stating that the primary duty of management
> in a publically-traded corporation was to the stockholders and the
> actual health of the business was at best a secondary concern (let alone
> little questions like "is what we're doing in any way ethical?" or "do
> people even *want* what we're trying to sell them?") Ed Zitron has a
> pretty good rundown on how this unfolded:
> 
> https://www.wheresyoured.at/tss/
> https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-era-of-the-business-idiot/

The Ford (who was a horrible man otherwise)  link didn't go where I 
thought it would. Edison, Ford, and other innovators that felt they had 
been badly used by the Wall Street money men tended to be bitter.

The failure of Ford's peace mission also colored his theory of who was 
responsible for selling the idea of war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Ship

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#71905

On 21/08/2025 21:59, John Ames wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Aug 2025 10:20:44 +0100
> The Natural Philosopher<tnp@invalid.invalid>  wrote:
> 
>> All driven by the financial emancipation of consumers with far more
>> money than sense..
> There's a lot of things you can pin on consumer stupidity, but I doubt
> this is one of 'em.

That is a perspective gleaned from years of experience selling tech into 
commercial and industrial markets and looking at buyer choices made by 
consumers.
Consumers buy fashionable ShinyShit™ because they can afford to and they 
are bored.
Industrial and commercial businesses by BoringOldShit™ because it will 
do the job at minimal cost.

I think the epitome of that was when I worked a year in a company making 
electric guitars. The principal said 'we aren't selling guitars. We are 
selling dreams. 90% of these will never be played beyond the bedroom'

My summary of that perspective on products is 'All chrome and tailfins' 
referring to the total dross that was the 1950s American car market.

Money spent on styling, but not on making a better car.

And te Americans - whom we referred to during WW2 as 'over sexed, over 
paid, and over here' - just lapped it all up.

Bless!
-- 
Of what good are dead warriors? … Warriors are those who desire battle 
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump 
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the 
battle dance and dream of glory … The good of dead warriors, Mother, is 
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

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#71802

On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 02:46:24 -0400, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote in
<xF-dnWPbhere8jj1nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com>:

> https://www.newsnationnow.com/business/tech/ai/invested-billions-ai-zero-
return/
> 
> There has been over $30B in enterprise investments into generative AI
> 
> 5% of integrated AI pilots are extracting millions in value'
> 
> AI systems fail due to their inability to learn and think in ways humans
> can
> 
> 
> . . .
> 
>    Um ... don't expect "AI" to be Just Like US.
> 
>    Be HAPPY if it's even a LITTLE Like Us.
> 
>    In any case, there has been VAST VAST investment in this tech - but
>    it's returning almost NOTHING for all the investment.
> 
>    NOT a good business model.
> 
>    The evil GOAL ... disemploy almost all of the very annoying Humans.
> 
>    Guess they go into ghettos ... with an address to the local Soylent
>    Green factory.
> 
>    BUT ... WHO then has the money to Buy Your Stuff ???
> 
>    That's the BIG Flaw in all this.
> 
>    Obsolete/broke people CAN'T buy your stuff.
> 
>    System error.

Well, think about it:  capitalism has no guarantee that there will
be jobs for everybody who can work.

Might need to move to UBI.

BTW, for some AI examples, I've posted to comp.ai.shells,
including a recent success story with a slightly complex
network configuration.

I used to refer to ChatGPT as "the father of lies" because
of its hallucinations, but it is fairly solid when it comes
to "here's the configuration I want, give me the netplan file"
type of problems.

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090Ti 24G
   OS: Linux 6.16.1 D: Mint 22.1 DE: Xfce 4.18 
   NVIDIA: 580.76.05 Mem: 258G
   "Inertia makes the world go round."

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#71806

On 8/20/25 8:05 PM, vallor wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 02:46:24 -0400, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote in
> <xF-dnWPbhere8jj1nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com>:
> 
>> https://www.newsnationnow.com/business/tech/ai/invested-billions-ai-zero-
> return/
>>
>> There has been over $30B in enterprise investments into generative AI
>>
>> 5% of integrated AI pilots are extracting millions in value'
>>
>> AI systems fail due to their inability to learn and think in ways humans
>> can
>>
>>
>> . . .
>>
>>     Um ... don't expect "AI" to be Just Like US.
>>
>>     Be HAPPY if it's even a LITTLE Like Us.
>>
>>     In any case, there has been VAST VAST investment in this tech - but
>>     it's returning almost NOTHING for all the investment.
>>
>>     NOT a good business model.
>>
>>     The evil GOAL ... disemploy almost all of the very annoying Humans.
>>
>>     Guess they go into ghettos ... with an address to the local Soylent
>>     Green factory.
>>
>>     BUT ... WHO then has the money to Buy Your Stuff ???
>>
>>     That's the BIG Flaw in all this.
>>
>>     Obsolete/broke people CAN'T buy your stuff.
>>
>>     System error.
> 
> Well, think about it:  capitalism has no guarantee that there will
> be jobs for everybody who can work.

   What about when NO ONE can work ? Where does
   the money come from ? The food ?

> Might need to move to UBI.

   Some little 3rd-world dumps are beginning to
   look good ...

   A hovel, maybe a crappy old boat ...

> BTW, for some AI examples, I've posted to comp.ai.shells,
> including a recent success story with a slightly complex
> network configuration.
> 
> I used to refer to ChatGPT as "the father of lies" because
> of its hallucinations, but it is fairly solid when it comes
> to "here's the configuration I want, give me the netplan file"
> type of problems.

   YOUR job gone next week .....

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#71825

On 21/08/2025 04:39, c186282 wrote:
>> Well, think about it:  capitalism has no guarantee that there will
>> be jobs for everybody who can work.
> 
>    What about when NO ONE can work ? Where does
>    the money come from ? The food ?

Uncle Robot


-- 
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's 
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

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#71918

On 8/21/25 5:21 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 21/08/2025 04:39, c186282 wrote:
>>> Well, think about it:  capitalism has no guarantee that there will
>>> be jobs for everybody who can work.
>>
>>    What about when NO ONE can work ? Where does
>>    the money come from ? The food ?
> 
> Uncle Robot

   Oh no, no, no !!!

   Too much AI = nobody with money to buy stuff

   No customers, no profits. Uncle 'Bot will have
   empty pockets.

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#71940

On 22/08/2025 14:29, c186282 wrote:
> On 8/21/25 5:21 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 21/08/2025 04:39, c186282 wrote:
>>>> Well, think about it:  capitalism has no guarantee that there will
>>>> be jobs for everybody who can work.
>>>
>>>    What about when NO ONE can work ? Where does
>>>    the money come from ? The food ?
>>
>> Uncle Robot
> 
>    Oh no, no, no !!!
> 
>    Too much AI = nobody with money to buy stuff
> 
Not at all. They just print money and give it to you.

So you can buy their products


>    No customers, no profits. Uncle 'Bot will have
>    empty pockets.
> 
Money and wealth are not the same things.
Since the end of Bretton woods


> 

-- 
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a 
kind word alone.

Al Capone

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#71981

On 8/22/25 2:49 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 22/08/2025 14:29, c186282 wrote:
>> On 8/21/25 5:21 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 21/08/2025 04:39, c186282 wrote:
>>>>> Well, think about it:  capitalism has no guarantee that there will
>>>>> be jobs for everybody who can work.
>>>>
>>>>    What about when NO ONE can work ? Where does
>>>>    the money come from ? The food ?
>>>
>>> Uncle Robot
>>
>>    Oh no, no, no !!!
>>
>>    Too much AI = nobody with money to buy stuff
>>
> Not at all. They just print money and give it to you.
> 
> So you can buy their products

   Oh ... just wow ..........

>>    No customers, no profits. Uncle 'Bot will have
>>    empty pockets.
>>
> Money and wealth are not the same things.
> Since the end of Bretton woods

   People DO stuff to make money - money is a sort
   of proxy for 'work'. However if you do no work
   then ........

   Too much "AI" = almost nobody DOING anything.

   I see it all ... vast vast ghettos full of crap
   govt apt blocks, warehousing for the unemployable.
   Stand in line every day for your food ration.

   Then, soon, you'll see Soylent Green on the list.

   And the portions will get smaller and smaller until ...

   Why should the elite support a vast number of
   unemployables ? Just let 'em DIE. Keep a few
   of the pretty girls for slaves, otherwise the
   bots will take care of the menial stuff.

   Hmmmm ... there was an old Trek about an elite
   living SO well and nice in a 'cloud city'. No
   one even thought about the slaves providing the
   stuff - except maybe the govt propaganda about
   how they LIKED living that way. Now sub AI/bots
   for the slave labor and what picture do you get ?

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#72019

On 23/08/2025 05:11, c186282 wrote:

> 
>    I see it all ... vast vast ghettos full of crap
>    govt apt blocks, warehousing for the unemployable.
>    Stand in line every day for your food ration.
> 
I see you have been to Russia.

>    Then, soon, you'll see Soylent Green on the list.
> 
I see you are about to visit Russia

>    And the portions will get smaller and smaller until ...
> 
>    Why should the elite support a vast number of
>    unemployables ? Just let 'em DIE. Keep a few
>    of the pretty girls for slaves, otherwise the
>    bots will take care of the menial stuff.
> 
Well...to a point yes. That which you have described is Russia, to a T.

BUT Uncle Vlad is running out of vodka soaked plebs to send to the 
front, and unfortunately he never got round to making the robots, 
whereas Ukraine, being a country worth defending, or so its people 
think, has been creating WarBots™ like crazy.

In cahoots with France Germany the UK...(but NOT the US).

>    Hmmmm ... there was an old Trek about an elite
>    living SO well and nice in a 'cloud city'. No
>    one even thought about the slaves providing the
>    stuff - except maybe the govt propaganda about
>    how they LIKED living that way. Now sub AI/bots
>    for the slave labor and what picture do you get ?

I, Robot?

In the end the question is whether the bulk gene pool is more valuable 
to keep alive or not.

And what power, if any, they have.

-- 
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

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#72054

On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 10:56:56 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 23/08/2025 05:11, c186282 wrote:
> 
> 
>>    I see it all ... vast vast ghettos full of crap govt apt blocks,
>>    warehousing for the unemployable.
>>    Stand in line every day for your food ration.
>> 
> I see you have been to Russia.

No need.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Taylor_Homes

The waiting in line for food was streamlined by EBT cards. The previous 
paper food stamps were cumbersome. RFK Jr. is making waves by suggesting 
SNAP benefits should be used to buy junk food.

https://www.npr.org/2025/06/11/nx-s1-5429651/rfk-jr-s-snap-changes-have-
people-worried-about-losing-benefits-altogether

He has an uphill fight. Some people have been raised on junk food for 
generations. That's what they eat. 

Robert Taylor and Cabrini-Green are the notorious examples but most of the 
'60s era high rises have been demolished. Most of them were quite nice 
before the tenants moved it. 

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#72060

On 23/08/2025 19:38, rbowman wrote:
> Robert Taylor and Cabrini-Green are the notorious examples but most of the
> '60s era high rises have been demolished. Most of them were quite nice
> before the tenants moved it.

It has been noted that high rise flats that sell for millions are well 
looked after. High rise flats that are given away free are trashed 
immediately.

You can take the plebs out of the slum but you cant take the slum out of 
the plebs


-- 
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is 
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

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#72101

On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 20:06:53 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 23/08/2025 19:38, rbowman wrote:
>> Robert Taylor and Cabrini-Green are the notorious examples but most of
>> the '60s era high rises have been demolished. Most of them were quite
>> nice before the tenants moved it.
> 
> It has been noted that high rise flats that sell for millions are well
> looked after. High rise flats that are given away free are trashed
> immediately.
> 
> You can take the plebs out of the slum but you cant take the slum out of
> the plebs

Going back to the Roman social classes I would argue what lives in the 
projects would correspond to the slaves rather than the plebes but we 
can't have slaves anymore. Marx' lumpenproletariat is a misnomer since the 
proletariat works for a living and has economic value rather than being a 
drain on the society..

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