Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #86403 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-05-11 19:00 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-05-15 18:06 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 79 — 16 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.os.linux.misc
The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-11 19:00 +0000
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 20:10 +0100
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-05-12 18:11 +0200
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:38 +0100
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-05-11 20:12 +0100
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-11 22:47 +0000
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 22:42 -0400
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-12 13:52 +0000
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 17:49 +0100
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-12 22:00 +0000
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 04:47 +0000
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:43 +0100
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 17:40 +0000
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-13 14:41 +0000
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:56 +0200
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:56 +0100
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-13 14:52 +0000
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-13 22:24 +0200
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 10:34 +0100
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-13 14:48 +0000
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-13 22:25 +0200
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-15 20:51 +0000
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-14 10:00 +1000
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 10:00 +0100
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 10:45 +0100
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 11:25 +0100
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 11:38 +0100
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 12:28 +0100
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 12:40 +0100
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 18:06 +0100
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-14 23:46 +0000
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-15 20:41 +0000
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-16 08:49 +0100
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-16 09:51 +0000
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-16 11:44 +0100
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 11:16 +0100
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-15 09:19 +1000
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-15 12:23 +0100
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 10:42 +0100
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-14 01:12 +0000
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 10:09 +0100
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-14 12:54 +0200
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-14 17:52 +0000
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-14 22:50 +0200
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 18:55 +0200
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 22:19 +0000
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-13 14:56 +0000
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 17:45 +0000
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 18:50 +0100
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-13 19:09 +0000
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-13 22:34 +0200
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-13 21:34 +0000
Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-13 19:06 +0000
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-11 21:41 +0000
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 14:59 -0700
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 03:53 +0000
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 00:39 -0400
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 23:02 +0000
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 20:49 -0400
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users makendo <makendo@makendo.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:47 +0800
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 01:26 -0400
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-15 21:04 +0000
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-16 00:37 +0000
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-16 08:35 +0200
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-16 19:41 +0000
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-16 18:40 +0000
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-16 20:37 +0000
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-16 23:07 +0200
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-16 22:33 +0000
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-17 01:11 +0000
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-17 00:39 -0400
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-16 18:39 +0000
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-16 22:10 +0200
Re: The Stupidification of systemd Haters Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-17 04:21 +0000
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-16 19:37 +0000
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-17 13:37 +0100
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users L Thorpe <lt666@sixsixsix.net> - 2026-05-17 17:22 +0000
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-16 00:48 +0000
Re: The Stupidification of GNU/Linux Users Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-15 18:06 -0700
Page 3 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 Next page →
| From | Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-14 10:09 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters |
| Message-ID | <wwvv7cq1hot.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk> |
| In reply to | #86635 |
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: > Carlos E.R. wrote: >> I can not think now of a task that puts the kernel CPU load at 100%. Perhaps an IPSec VPN endpoint with a very fast network interface and lots of clients that (for some reason) use DES3-CBC as bulk cipher? (DES3 because it’s not accelerated and CBC mode because of its dependency speedbump.) I’m not going to do the experiment... > If you actually mean 100×$(nproc)%, I can think of several ways to do > it, video encoding and CG rendering being two obvious ones. > > Another one is doing some large build with “make -j”, and forgetting > to specify a process limit. ;) Those are all user process load. The question was about kernel CPU load. -- https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-14 12:54 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters |
| Message-ID | <o8mgdmx9qb.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #86643 |
On 2026-05-14 11:09, Richard Kettlewell wrote: > Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: >> Carlos E.R. wrote: >>> I can not think now of a task that puts the kernel CPU load at 100%. > > Perhaps an IPSec VPN endpoint with a very fast network interface and > lots of clients that (for some reason) use DES3-CBC as bulk cipher? > > (DES3 because it’s not accelerated and CBC mode because of its > dependency speedbump.) > > I’m not going to do the experiment... I am thinking now of an applet in XFCE 4 called "multiload ng". I think it comes from an old gnome one. Well, the thing is it can graph processor load as "User, System, Nice, or I/O wait". Kernel load would be "System". But maybe other things are also "System". Maybe libc? > >> If you actually mean 100×$(nproc)%, I can think of several ways to do >> it, video encoding and CG rendering being two obvious ones. >> >> Another one is doing some large build with “make -j”, and forgetting >> to specify a process limit. ;) > > Those are all user process load. The question was about kernel CPU load. Yep. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-14 17:52 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters |
| Message-ID | <n6mgf5Feru8U2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #86657 |
On Thu, 14 May 2026 12:54:48 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote: > I am thinking now of an applet in XFCE 4 called "multiload ng". I think > it comes from an old gnome one. Well, the thing is it can graph > processor load as "User, System, Nice, or I/O wait". Kernel load would > be "System". But maybe other things are also "System". Maybe libc? I had to install it on openSUSE with sudo zypper install sysstat sudo systemctl enable sysstat sudo systemctl enable sysstat There are a bunch of flags described in the man page but sar Linux 6.17.0-23-generic (kropotkin) 05/14/2026 _x86_64_ (8 CPU) 12:00:15 AM CPU %user %nice %system %iowait %steal %idle 12:10:18 AM all 0.48 0.00 0.48 0.04 0.00 99.00 12:20:05 AM all 0.50 0.08 0.51 0.07 0.00 98.84 12:30:03 AM all 0.48 0.00 0.47 0.05 0.00 99.00 12:40:01 AM all 0.49 0.00 0.49 0.06 0.00 98.96 12:50:01 AM all 0.47 0.00 0.47 0.05 0.00 99.00 01:00:14 AM all 0.49 0.00 0.48 0.06 0.00 98.98 That's cumulative but 'sar -u 2 10' will report every 2 seconds for 10 times. The docs say 'system' means kernel. you also get iostat and pidstat. pidstat is useful to see who is dipping into the kernel.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-14 22:50 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters |
| Message-ID | <a5phdmxt8o.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #86667 |
On 2026-05-14 19:52, rbowman wrote: > On Thu, 14 May 2026 12:54:48 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote: > > >> I am thinking now of an applet in XFCE 4 called "multiload ng". I think >> it comes from an old gnome one. Well, the thing is it can graph >> processor load as "User, System, Nice, or I/O wait". Kernel load would >> be "System". But maybe other things are also "System". Maybe libc? > > I had to install it on openSUSE with > > sudo zypper install sysstat > sudo systemctl enable sysstat > sudo systemctl enable sysstat > > There are a bunch of flags described in the man page but > > sar > Linux 6.17.0-23-generic (kropotkin) 05/14/2026 _x86_64_ (8 CPU) > > 12:00:15 AM CPU %user %nice %system %iowait %steal %idle > 12:10:18 AM all 0.48 0.00 0.48 0.04 0.00 99.00 > 12:20:05 AM all 0.50 0.08 0.51 0.07 0.00 98.84 > 12:30:03 AM all 0.48 0.00 0.47 0.05 0.00 99.00 > 12:40:01 AM all 0.49 0.00 0.49 0.06 0.00 98.96 > 12:50:01 AM all 0.47 0.00 0.47 0.05 0.00 99.00 > 01:00:14 AM all 0.49 0.00 0.48 0.06 0.00 98.98 > > That's cumulative but 'sar -u 2 10' will report every 2 seconds for 10 times. > > The docs say 'system' means kernel. you also get iostat and pidstat. pidstat is useful to see who is dipping into the kernel. "multiload ng" is a GUI tool, but considering that all apps drink from the same sources for their data, %system must be kernel on all tools. Then libc must be userland. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-12 18:55 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters |
| Message-ID | <kl2cdmxck6.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #86487 |
On 2026-05-12 15:52, Rich wrote: > c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: >> On 5/11/26 18:47, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >>> On Mon, 11 May 2026 20:12:03 +0100, Andy Burns wrote: > > I used to build my own kernels, but this was back in the days of > systems with 512MB of total RAM and i586 class CPU's running at > 150-200Mhz. Back in those days it /felt/ like there was a speedup by > building the kernel against the specific CPU one had in one's box, and > with the 512MB RAM days, there *was* a benefit of stripping out drivers > that one did not use, as a smaller kernel left more RAM available for > one's applications. Me too, but the distros making everything modules also saved the same RAM and was less work for users. Maybe the startup was a bit slower :-? > > But somewhere along the path from i586 class CPU's to i3/i5/i7 class > CPU's, and 512MB ram to 24G RAM it became a case where the performance > increase from "build with CPU optimizations for a speific CPU" and > "Kernel is smaller" was no longer noticable. The standard kernel > Slackware built felt just as fast as the custom built kernel, and the > difference in memory usage was a tiny sliver of the total, so it wasn't > worth it to continue. So somewhere around the "Pentium 3" to Core era > I quit compiling custom kernels for myself as I no longer felt like I > could detect the benefits from doing so. Right. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-12 22:19 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters |
| Message-ID | <n6hnbuF2nluU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #86487 |
On Tue, 12 May 2026 13:52:51 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote: > I used to build my own kernels, but this was back in the days of systems > with 512MB of total RAM and i586 class CPU's running at 150-200Mhz. > Back in those days it /felt/ like there was a speedup by building the > kernel against the specific CPU one had in one's box, and with the 512MB > RAM days, there *was* a benefit of stripping out drivers that one did > not use, > as a smaller kernel left more RAM available for one's applications. It's been a long, long time but iirc you could also screw yourself royally if you said 'I don't need that' for some obscure feature that you definitely did need.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-13 14:56 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters |
| Message-ID | <10u23e2$2odeg$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86533 |
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On Tue, 12 May 2026 13:52:51 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote: > >> I used to build my own kernels, but this was back in the days of systems >> with 512MB of total RAM and i586 class CPU's running at 150-200Mhz. >> Back in those days it /felt/ like there was a speedup by building the >> kernel against the specific CPU one had in one's box, and with the 512MB >> RAM days, there *was* a benefit of stripping out drivers that one did >> not use, >> as a smaller kernel left more RAM available for one's applications. > > It's been a long, long time but iirc you could also screw yourself royally > if you said 'I don't need that' for some obscure feature that you > definitely did need. Been there, done that.... Was esp. troublesome when fixing the mistake involved waiting another hour plus for a kernel compile to complete. The first time I made this mistake it also taught me to *never* overwrite my existing, working, lilo boot entry for the current kernel and instead to install the new kernel as a second entry first. Then if the new kernel panicked because I forgot to turn something on, I had a way out other than "reinstall from 30+ floppy disks".
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-13 17:45 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters |
| Message-ID | <n6jrl9F2dl2U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #86595 |
On Wed, 13 May 2026 14:56:02 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote: > The first time I made this mistake it also taught me to *never* > overwrite my existing, working, lilo boot entry for the current kernel > and instead to install the new kernel as a second entry first. Then if > the new kernel panicked because I forgot to turn something on, I had a > way out other than "reinstall from 30+ floppy disks". That was my initial Linux experience. Download a few boxes worth of floppies with the Slackware stuff over dialup and carefully assemble the mess. iirc my first pass didn't have gcc; back to Slackware for more floppy images.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-13 18:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters |
| Message-ID | <10u2dkq$2sb5d$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86612 |
On 13/05/2026 18:45, rbowman wrote: > On Wed, 13 May 2026 14:56:02 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote: > >> The first time I made this mistake it also taught me to *never* >> overwrite my existing, working, lilo boot entry for the current kernel >> and instead to install the new kernel as a second entry first. Then if >> the new kernel panicked because I forgot to turn something on, I had a >> way out other than "reinstall from 30+ floppy disks". > > That was my initial Linux experience. Download a few boxes worth of > floppies with the Slackware stuff over dialup and carefully assemble the > mess. iirc my first pass didn't have gcc; back to Slackware for more > floppy images. > I THINK my first personal install was red hat from a CD... Later I mostly burned DVDs and then switched to a USB drive -- For in reason, all government without the consent of the governed is the very definition of slavery. Jonathan Swift
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-13 19:09 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters |
| Message-ID | <10u2i8r$2tm2g$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86614 |
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On 13/05/2026 18:45, rbowman wrote: >> On Wed, 13 May 2026 14:56:02 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote: >> >>> The first time I made this mistake it also taught me to *never* >>> overwrite my existing, working, lilo boot entry for the current >>> kernel and instead to install the new kernel as a second entry >>> first. Then if the new kernel panicked because I forgot to turn >>> something on, I had a way out other than "reinstall from 30+ floppy >>> disks". >> >> That was my initial Linux experience. Download a few boxes worth of >> floppies with the Slackware stuff over dialup and carefully assemble >> the mess. iirc my first pass didn't have gcc; back to Slackware for >> more floppy images. >> > I THINK my first personal install was red hat from a CD... > Later I mostly burned DVDs and then switched to a USB drive You missed out on all the *fun* of downloading 30+ floppies, then writing to 30+ floppies, then booting and installing from 30+ floppies, only to find out something was wrong with the media on floppy # 29 (it was always the last, or one just a step or two before last that had a media issue) such that the install failed, and you had to start over again after writing #29 (or whichever) to a new disk (and hoping it or one of the others didn't now fail too).
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-13 22:34 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters |
| Message-ID | <cs3fdmxlk.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #86621 |
On 2026-05-13 21:09, Rich wrote: > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> On 13/05/2026 18:45, rbowman wrote: >>> On Wed, 13 May 2026 14:56:02 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote: >>> >>>> The first time I made this mistake it also taught me to *never* >>>> overwrite my existing, working, lilo boot entry for the current >>>> kernel and instead to install the new kernel as a second entry >>>> first. Then if the new kernel panicked because I forgot to turn >>>> something on, I had a way out other than "reinstall from 30+ floppy >>>> disks". >>> >>> That was my initial Linux experience. Download a few boxes worth of >>> floppies with the Slackware stuff over dialup and carefully assemble >>> the mess. iirc my first pass didn't have gcc; back to Slackware for >>> more floppy images. >>> >> I THINK my first personal install was red hat from a CD... >> Later I mostly burned DVDs and then switched to a USB drive > > You missed out on all the *fun* of downloading 30+ floppies, then > writing to 30+ floppies, then booting and installing from 30+ floppies, > only to find out something was wrong with the media on floppy # 29 (it > was always the last, or one just a step or two before last that had a > media issue) such that the install failed, and you had to start over > again after writing #29 (or whichever) to a new disk (and hoping it or > one of the others didn't now fail too). > I never did that. For one thing, in the 90's in Spain you paid local calls by the minute. I didn't have internet till 97 or 98. I had Fidonet. So even though I knew about Linux from comments I heard, I could not try it till it came in a summer magazine as CDs. I was working for a large serious company that had a Linux server doing things in the corner. I then realized it was a serious OS, not some amateur thing anymore. I wanted to try it, and learn some Unix, because Unix was used at my work site. I think I first installed Red Hat. After reading a lot about how to make room in the hard disk, I installed that, got to a prompt, and did not know what to do with it. Next I bumped into another magazine that did a piece analyzing several Linux distros. It said that SuSE was the easiest. And soon that summer came a magazine with a double CD with SuSE 5.3. Bingo! I installed that one instead. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-13 21:34 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters |
| Message-ID | <Z76NR.519$lL1.474@fx45.iad> |
| In reply to | #86621 |
On 2026-05-13, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote: > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> On 13/05/2026 18:45, rbowman wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 13 May 2026 14:56:02 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote: >>> >>>> The first time I made this mistake it also taught me to *never* >>>> overwrite my existing, working, lilo boot entry for the current >>>> kernel and instead to install the new kernel as a second entry >>>> first. Then if the new kernel panicked because I forgot to turn >>>> something on, I had a way out other than "reinstall from 30+ floppy >>>> disks". >>> >>> That was my initial Linux experience. Download a few boxes worth of >>> floppies with the Slackware stuff over dialup and carefully assemble >>> the mess. iirc my first pass didn't have gcc; back to Slackware for >>> more floppy images. >> >> I THINK my first personal install was red hat from a CD... >> Later I mostly burned DVDs and then switched to a USB drive > > You missed out on all the *fun* of downloading 30+ floppies, then > writing to 30+ floppies, then booting and installing from 30+ floppies, > only to find out something was wrong with the media on floppy # 29 (it > was always the last, or one just a step or two before last that had a > media issue) such that the install failed, and you had to start over > again after writing #29 (or whichever) to a new disk (and hoping it or > one of the others didn't now fail too). I had all that fun on mainframes using 8-inch floppies long before Linux existed. My first Linux installation was from a CD, thank God. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-13 19:06 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The Stupidification Of systemd Haters |
| Message-ID | <10u2i47$2tm2g$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86612 |
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On Wed, 13 May 2026 14:56:02 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote: > >> The first time I made this mistake it also taught me to *never* >> overwrite my existing, working, lilo boot entry for the current >> kernel and instead to install the new kernel as a second entry >> first. Then if the new kernel panicked because I forgot to turn >> something on, I had a way out other than "reinstall from 30+ floppy >> disks". > > That was my initial Linux experience. Download a few boxes worth of > floppies with the Slackware stuff over dialup and carefully assemble > the mess. iirc my first pass didn't have gcc; back to Slackware for > more floppy images. In my case the first was 30+ floppies with SLS (Slackware's precursor), but I also did the 30+ floppy shuffle for more than a few Slackware installs as well. For one of the variants (it might have been SLS) I had internet access via a shared unix workstation that $job provided and that had a T1 connection. I also knew the sysadmin and so got a favor of "can you copy these files to these floppies for me" done. So I didn't have to suffer the 2400bps download speed for 30+ floppies that time. Later ones, yeah, several days worth of downloads at 2400bps to get everything down before being able to use the 30+ floppies to install anything.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-11 21:41 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10ttief$1eq41$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86403 |
Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> wrote: > I have a motherboard that contains on onboard sound chip > that the manual specifies as: > > Realtek ALC1220-VB > > The command "lspci -vv", using a live distro, also reports: > > Intel Comet Lake PCH cAVS Audio > ... > Kernel modules: snd_hda_intel, snd_soc_skl, snd_sof_pci_intel_cnl > > This device should function with Alsa but absolutely > nowhere can I locate the kernel configuration parameters > for this device. The latest kernels do not seem to possess > the above modules. My Slackware 15.0 system has snd-hda-intel.ko, snd-soc-skl.ko and snd-sof-pci-intel-cnl.ko already prebuilt from Slackware. Perhaps you are not finding them due to the underscores vs. hyphens? > Internet forums report nothing but the mainstream distros > which include every possible module in one giant, bloated mess. Slackware gives you the option of a giant huge kernel with most things built in, or a kernel with most drivers built as modules. You get to pick which you want during install. > No remedy is to be found. Since Slackware 15.0 has the three modules you mention, there is one remedy: install Slackware 15.0. > Doesn't anyone build their own kernel anymore? I used to do so. It has been so long now since I last built a kernel I've forgotten how long ago that last build was. > Is the average GNU/Linux user just a distro slave with no technical > competence or curiosity? The average computer user (no matter the os) is a "distro slave with no technical competence or curiosity". The only difference between them is "which distro" (MS for winblows or one of the Linuxes).
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-11 14:59 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <10ttjfi$1fdcv$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86403 |
On 5/11/26 12:00, Leroy H wrote: > I have a motherboard that contains on onboard sound chip > that the manual specifies as: > > Realtek ALC1220-VB > > The command "lspci -vv", using a live distro, also reports: > > Intel Comet Lake PCH cAVS Audio > ... > Kernel modules: snd_hda_intel, snd_soc_skl, snd_sof_pci_intel_cnl > > This device should function with Alsa but absolutely > nowhere can I locate the kernel configuration parameters > for this device. The latest kernels do not seem to possess > the above modules. > > Internet forums report nothing but the mainstream distros > which include every possible module in one giant, bloated mess. > No remedy is to be found. > > Doesn't anyone build their own kernel anymore? Is the > average GNU/Linux user just a distro slave with no > technical competence or curiosity? And what distribution of GNU/Linux are you using, Leroy? Limited technical competence and heaps of curiosity but at 88 not terribly interested in studying for new career. My Distro not-Slave is a man in Texas who publishes the distro and compiles with assistance from testers and coders. He is presently working on 6.18.26 and other parts of the Distribution. What he provides us generally works smoothly. Some of the PCLinuxOS users do build their own kernels but I have limited time sitting at the computer and use it for communication. I read technical groups like col.misc for comprehensible tips not for slamming the other users. But you see, I will at times...> > Fortunately I have a PCIe soundcard (SB_Audigy_5RX) for which > I was able to locate the exact kernel configuration parameters. > But it was not an easy task. Such information is very sparse. > > GNU/Linux was begun as a project for the technical elite, but > now it seems that is has devolved into a definite idiocracy. Well aren't you proud of your own big brain. So is Donald Trump, a very stable genius, in his own estimation. bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2026.04- Linux 6.12.87 pclos1- KDE Plasma 6.6.4
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-12 03:53 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n6fmh9FnemvU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #86403 |
On Mon, 11 May 2026 19:00:12 +0000, Leroy H wrote: > This device should function with Alsa but absolutely nowhere can I > locate the kernel configuration parameters for this device. The latest > kernels do not seem to possess the above modules. Sounds like Pipewire got you by the balls.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-12 00:39 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <a-2dna9L_sq-Mp_3nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #86441 |
On 5/11/26 23:53, rbowman wrote: > On Mon, 11 May 2026 19:00:12 +0000, Leroy H wrote: > >> This device should function with Alsa but absolutely nowhere can I >> locate the kernel configuration parameters for this device. The latest >> kernels do not seem to possess the above modules. > > Sounds like Pipewire got you by the balls. Usually PiperWire "Just Works". But if you want some WEIRD connection to other audio apps then, well, good luck. There are multiple, independent, solutions to Linux audio. Expecting Mercedes parts to fit yer Chevy ... well ...... Yet I keep hearing laments from people who discover they Can't Get There From Here.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-12 23:02 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <n6hps1F2nluU4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #86447 |
On Tue, 12 May 2026 00:39:53 -0400, c186282 wrote: > Usually PiperWire "Just Works". After one Ubuntu update the 3.5mm jack I was using for my speakers stoped working and I would only the the Default (non) Selection. I found out more about pipewire, pulseaudio, wireplumber, and friends then I ever wanted to know. Solution: my Bluetooth earbuds worked so I bought LogiTec Bluetooth speakers. Problem solved.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-12 20:49 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <GIOdna73z5NaV573nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #86536 |
On 5/12/26 19:02, rbowman wrote: > On Tue, 12 May 2026 00:39:53 -0400, c186282 wrote: > >> Usually PiperWire "Just Works". > > After one Ubuntu update the 3.5mm jack I was using for my speakers stoped > working and I would only the the Default (non) Selection. I found out more > about pipewire, pulseaudio, wireplumber, and friends then I ever wanted to > know. > > Solution: my Bluetooth earbuds worked so I bought LogiTec Bluetooth > speakers. Problem solved. Hey - if you can't get there by one road ... !
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | makendo <makendo@makendo.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-12 12:47 +0800 |
| Message-ID | <10tubdh$1mdou$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #86403 |
> This device should function with Alsa but absolutely
> nowhere can I locate the kernel configuration parameters
> for this device. The latest kernels do not seem to possess
> the above modules.
Some configuration entries are hidden beneath several levels of nested
unchecked checkboxes, and the way to unlock them can be non-obvious at
times (e.g. how will you know that you need I2C drivers to drive your
computer's SMBus controller?).
There is a search function in menuconfig/nconfig to help find exactly
what you want and how to unlock it, but it isn't very easy to use.
Though far easier said than done (I doubt if anyone will be even willing
to do this), this could make life easier to make a kernel tailored to
a specific computer:
- A program that sets Kconfig options based on what PCI devices
are on your computer;
- An index mapping PCI IDs, USB IDs, etc. to Kconfig options;
- Tools for compiling and maintaining said index.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
Page 3 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 Next page →
Back to top | Article view | comp.os.linux.misc
csiph-web