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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #87133 > unrolled thread
| Started by | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-05-26 02:21 -0400 |
| Last post | 2026-05-26 17:21 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 123 — 16 participants |
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Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 02:21 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 08:46 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:49 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:47 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:25 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 09:53 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:38 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:35 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 22:09 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 16:17 -0700
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 00:02 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-27 00:11 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-28 10:32 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 08:41 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-27 11:04 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:31 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:18 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:42 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 15:01 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 21:34 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 11:07 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:55 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:14 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:36 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:26 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 17:24 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:37 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 22:34 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:29 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:09 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 23:29 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-31 21:45 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:15 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 18:53 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-02 01:46 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 03:01 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:16 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 02:58 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 11:11 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-29 04:30 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:34 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:36 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:38 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 05:09 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 03:10 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 07:14 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:49 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-01 04:57 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:20 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 19:45 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 18:30 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:27 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 10:49 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:16 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:00 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:17 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:50 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 01:07 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:47 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:36 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:33 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:26 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:31 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:49 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-30 09:09 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:17 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-31 07:33 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:14 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:09 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:51 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:28 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:58 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 20:51 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-27 14:02 -0700
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 08:54 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-28 05:04 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:54 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-05-28 09:15 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:29 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:45 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-29 02:50 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:17 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:48 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:25 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:20 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 14:16 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 04:00 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 23:41 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:09 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:51 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-28 17:08 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 22:14 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 04:41 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:53 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:32 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:19 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:52 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:08 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:55 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:39 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:21 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 22:39 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:10 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 09:05 +1000
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 08:19 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:52 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:20 +0100
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 20:34 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-28 21:07 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:40 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:12 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:28 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 01:21 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:08 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:41 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:23 +0000
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 23:00 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:44 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:45 -0400
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:38 +0200
Re: Redundancy/Survival "Worst Case" <fritz@spamexpire-202605.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2026-05-26 17:21 +0200
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-26 02:21 -0400 |
| Subject | Redundancy/Survival |
| Message-ID | <NS-dnT8V8Kdepoj3nZ2dnZfqnPsAAAAA@giganews.com> |
Last year, one of my old ISPs, who I still get SOME services thru, sent a message saying they would no longer support DIAL-UP ... ie hardline modem access. Admittedly phone companies have been dumping hard-lines as fast as they can of late ... require actual HUMAN intervention, twisting of physical wires and such. DO still have a hardline phone, they keep raising the price, trying to get me to quit. It works even IF all the cell towers and such go down hard. Still worth the money IMHO. And yea, HAVE had the experience of all the towers going down. It's called HURRICANE. The towers, IF still standing, have about three days of generator power. Then ........ Admittedly dial-up is NOT good with modern, ultra- cluttered bullshit-laden web pages. WILL usually work though, if you're REALLY patient. However you CAN at least do e-mail and a few other things. In case of disasters SOME basic stuff will still work. But this back-redundancy is rapidly disappearing. This leaves us with NOTHING in the event of cyberwar or even natural disasters. Cudos to the HAM radio operators ... they DO keep at it. In many disaster zones THEY are the only source of info in and out. It's early 1900s tech, but STILL has a place - ultra robust. Own one of the last AARL/HAM printed radio books, like 400 pages. Details, in DETAIL, every kind of circuit, all the equations, practical notes. Covers from Morse code thru some digital. It's incredibly complete. You COULD rebuild comm tech starting from there - vac tubes to transistors to chips. Think there's mention of mechanical low-freq RF generators too. HOW soon until we NEED this sort of info ? How many still HAVE something like this manual actually, physically, in their hands ? I have enough transistors and shit on hand to solder together a basic radio transceiver. Not anything impressive, but sorta functional. But, again, how many people DO ??? Nature and humans DO conspire against us all the time. Sorry, your expensive iPhone can become naught but JUNK overnight. Then a 300-baud dial-up connection - amazing ! Just sayin' When I was a kiddie, one of my teachers thought it'd be interesting to do a tour of the local Bell/ATT dialing center as a 'field trip'. It was a pretty big, very plain, building. Aside from a front office with human 'Operators', it was entirely PACKED with mechanical dialing machines. Big plexiglass tubes with long shafts inside. When somebody picked up the phone there was a mechanical device that'd move to a group of physical circuit disks in the tube. This was rotary-dial days. Then with each number dialed some disks would rotate, relay-driven, to very physically connect one phone to another. It was Very Cool to watch :-) What a wiring nightmare - but it WORKED and no cyberwar could disrupt it. This was Cold War era ... 'redundancy'/survivability WAS a very practical, admitted, concern. STILL have a 300/1200/2400 stand alone modem in The Heap somewhere. Haven't used it since the Compuserve Forum days when I plugged it into a dumb terminal for fun - "ATTD...". They don't ADMIT vulnerabilities anymore. Why not ??? Again, just sayin' Oh well, have gone on too long. But THINK about this shit. Modern comms - FRAGILE to the extreme.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-26 08:46 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <r6sfemxjc4.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87133 |
On 2026-05-26 08:21, c186282 wrote: > Last year, one of my old ISPs, who I still get > SOME services thru, sent a message saying they > would no longer support DIAL-UP ... ie hardline > modem access. > > Admittedly phone companies have been dumping > hard-lines as fast as they can of late ... > require actual HUMAN intervention, twisting > of physical wires and such. > > DO still have a hardline phone, they keep raising > the price, trying to get me to quit. It works even > IF all the cell towers and such go down hard. Still > worth the money IMHO. And yea, HAVE had the experience > of all the towers going down. It's called HURRICANE. > The towers, IF still standing, have about three days > of generator power. Then ........ You simply do not have a choice, copper pair land lines are being phased out. In some countries by laws. Here they did not raise the prices, they simply disconnected them one day. Like that. With warnings to migrate for months, of course, till one day, paff, disconnected. A few thousand people were just disconnected. No arguing. So, it is fibre now. If fibre is not feasible to your location (like isolated places), they they put you on some radio for the same price. You may be on another provider who for years installed fibre to the curb, then coax to the home. It is copper, but not copper pairs. And goes down with power failures. ... > Just sayin' > > When I was a kiddie, one of my teachers thought > it'd be interesting to do a tour of the local > Bell/ATT dialing center as a 'field trip'. It > was a pretty big, very plain, building. Aside > from a front office with human 'Operators', it > was entirely PACKED with mechanical dialing > machines. Big plexiglass tubes with long shafts > inside. When somebody picked up the phone there > was a mechanical device that'd move to a group > of physical circuit disks in the tube. This was > rotary-dial days. Then with each number dialed > some disks would rotate, relay-driven, to very > physically connect one phone to another. It was > Very Cool to watch :-) I saw them in a museum in Britain back in 1976, during a visit when I was a kid. Birmingham Science Museum. At some point we were using large relays linear arrays of some sort. Pentaconta? I have never seen them close. Some of those were decommissioned recently. <https://blogs.upm.es/museotelecomunicaciones/multiselector-pentaconta/> There is a video of the system at work. > > What a wiring nightmare - but it WORKED and > no cyberwar could disrupt it. This was Cold > War era ... 'redundancy'/survivability WAS > a very practical, admitted, concern. > > STILL have a 300/1200/2400 stand alone modem > in The Heap somewhere. Haven't used it since > the Compuserve Forum days when I plugged it > into a dumb terminal for fun - "ATTD...". > > They don't ADMIT vulnerabilities anymore. > Why not ??? > > Again, just sayin' > > Oh well, have gone on too long. But THINK > about this shit. Modern comms - FRAGILE > to the extreme. > -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-26 09:49 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <10v3j9g$3jdt3$2@paganini.bofh.team> |
| In reply to | #87137 |
On 26.05.2026 08:46 Carlos E.R. wrote: > You simply do not have a choice, copper pair land lines are being > phased out. In some countries by laws. Did they forbid land line phone service or copper cable (e.g. used for DSL) at all? > Here they did not raise the prices, they simply disconnected them > one day. Like that. With warnings to migrate for months, of course, > till one day, paff, disconnected. A few thousand people were just > disconnected. Didn't they cancel the contracts?
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-26 04:47 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <NS-dnTYV8KeGw4j3nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87144 |
On 5/26/26 03:49, Marco Moock wrote: > On 26.05.2026 08:46 Carlos E.R. wrote: > >> You simply do not have a choice, copper pair land lines are being >> phased out. In some countries by laws. > > Did they forbid land line phone service or copper cable (e.g. used for > DSL) at all? NO more DSL of any kind. But the voice lines STILL continue, for now. >> Here they did not raise the prices, they simply disconnected them >> one day. Like that. With warnings to migrate for months, of course, >> till one day, paff, disconnected. A few thousand people were just >> disconnected. > > Didn't they cancel the contracts? MY provider sez "No more NEW hardlines" - but they're not removing existing ones, yet. So ... I'll keep it for as long as possible.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-26 11:25 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <9h5gemx2ks.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87144 |
On 2026-05-26 09:49, Marco Moock wrote: > On 26.05.2026 08:46 Carlos E.R. wrote: > >> You simply do not have a choice, copper pair land lines are being >> phased out. In some countries by laws. > > Did they forbid land line phone service or copper cable (e.g. used for > DSL) at all? They approved the plan by telcos. > >> Here they did not raise the prices, they simply disconnected them >> one day. Like that. With warnings to migrate for months, of course, >> till one day, paff, disconnected. A few thousand people were just >> disconnected. > > Didn't they cancel the contracts? They sent a mail/email saying they could migrate to radio or cancel contract. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-26 09:53 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10v3qja$200pt$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87144 |
Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> wrote: > On 26.05.2026 08:46 Carlos E.R. wrote: > >> You simply do not have a choice, copper pair land lines are being >> phased out. In some countries by laws. > > Did they forbid land line phone service or copper cable (e.g. used for > DSL) at all? In my area, it was the land line phone (old POTS copper pairs) that were retired. Verizon 'sweet talked' the state regulators into allowing it to drop the old POTS service, and so for some number of months every bill included big 'warnings' about switching over to their FIOS phone service. Which was really just their own, very high priced variant of VOIP. The copper wires still hang from the poles, but they are no longer used for anything. But as DSL needed the old copper POTS infrastructure to work, shutting down the copper infrastructure also meant no more option to obtain DSL service either (which Verizon actually liked, because the regulations required them to share, on fair terms, their copper wires with DSL providers, but they managed to /also/ 'sweet talk' the regulators into there being no such requirement for their fiber service. >> Here they did not raise the prices, they simply disconnected them >> one day. Like that. With warnings to migrate for months, of course, >> till one day, paff, disconnected. A few thousand people were just >> disconnected. > > Didn't they cancel the contracts? In much of the US phone service was not "contracted" but just paid month to month (at least for residental service).
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-26 04:38 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <NS-dnTQV8KecwYj3nZ2dnZfqnPsAAAAA@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87137 |
On 5/26/26 02:46, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-05-26 08:21, c186282 wrote: >> Last year, one of my old ISPs, who I still get >> SOME services thru, sent a message saying they >> would no longer support DIAL-UP ... ie hardline >> modem access. >> >> Admittedly phone companies have been dumping >> hard-lines as fast as they can of late ... >> require actual HUMAN intervention, twisting >> of physical wires and such. >> >> DO still have a hardline phone, they keep raising >> the price, trying to get me to quit. It works even >> IF all the cell towers and such go down hard. Still >> worth the money IMHO. And yea, HAVE had the experience >> of all the towers going down. It's called HURRICANE. >> The towers, IF still standing, have about three days >> of generator power. Then ........ > > > You simply do not have a choice, copper pair land lines are being phased > out. In some countries by laws. Here they did not raise the prices, they > simply disconnected them one day. Like that. With warnings to migrate > for months, of course, till one day, paff, disconnected. A few thousand > people were just disconnected. > > No arguing. Well ... I'll keep The Choice for as long as I can. The Price is almost irrelevant. > So, it is fibre now. If fibre is not feasible to your location (like > isolated places), they they put you on some radio for the same price. Fiber is STILL a direct-connect tech ... and the providers are AGAINST that. Requires HUMAN workers. They want 100% wireless - no matter how shitty. > You may be on another provider who for years installed fibre to the > curb, then coax to the home. It is copper, but not copper pairs. And > goes down with power failures. > > > ... > >> Just sayin' >> >> When I was a kiddie, one of my teachers thought >> it'd be interesting to do a tour of the local >> Bell/ATT dialing center as a 'field trip'. It >> was a pretty big, very plain, building. Aside >> from a front office with human 'Operators', it >> was entirely PACKED with mechanical dialing >> machines. Big plexiglass tubes with long shafts >> inside. When somebody picked up the phone there >> was a mechanical device that'd move to a group >> of physical circuit disks in the tube. This was >> rotary-dial days. Then with each number dialed >> some disks would rotate, relay-driven, to very >> physically connect one phone to another. It was >> Very Cool to watch :-) > > I saw them in a museum in Britain back in 1976, during a visit when I > was a kid. Birmingham Science Museum. At some point we were using large > relays linear arrays of some sort. Pentaconta? I have never seen them > close. Some of those were decommissioned recently. > > <https://blogs.upm.es/museotelecomunicaciones/multiselector-pentaconta/> > > There is a video of the system at work. I saw them in real-time/real-world operation. Fascinating. However the WIRING ... wow !
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-26 11:35 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <546gemxej.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87148 |
On 2026-05-26 10:38, c186282 wrote: > On 5/26/26 02:46, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> On 2026-05-26 08:21, c186282 wrote: >> So, it is fibre now. If fibre is not feasible to your location (like >> isolated places), they they put you on some radio for the same price. > >  Fiber is STILL a direct-connect tech ... and >  the providers are AGAINST that. Requires HUMAN >  workers. > >  They want 100% wireless - no matter how shitty. No here they put one fibre to the block, then they split the fibre to 16 customers. Which one on each, is software config on the router, and maybe at the telco. The splitter is optical, no power needed. >> I saw them in a museum in Britain back in 1976, during a visit when I >> was a kid. Birmingham Science Museum. At some point we were using >> large relays linear arrays of some sort. Pentaconta? I have never seen >> them close. Some of those were decommissioned recently. >> >> <https://blogs.upm.es/museotelecomunicaciones/multiselector-pentaconta/> >> >> There is a video of the system at work. > >  I saw them in real-time/real-world operation. > >  Fascinating. > >  However the WIRING ... wow ! I have seen the wiring up close. And done wiring, but not for customers, but tiny coax that distributed 2 mbit transmission. With a 5ESSS. No soldering, no connectors, no crimping. Just wrapping around a long pin. The wiring is methodical, just a long job. No failures. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | Rich <rich@example.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-26 22:09 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10v55mv$2co0n$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87148 |
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote: > On 5/26/26 02:46, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> So, it is fibre now. If fibre is not feasible to your location (like >> isolated places), they they put you on some radio for the same price. > > Fiber is STILL a direct-connect tech ... and > the providers are AGAINST that. Requires HUMAN > workers. > > They want 100% wireless - no matter how shitty. In the US, the ulterior motive actually appears to be the fact that POTS service is regulated (price regulated and availability requirements regulated) whereas the "new fangled" fiber services are free of those pesky requirements for requesting price increases or being required to provide a particular availably (uptime) level. They don't mind at all sending a tech. out to drag in fiber, given that each one moves them from "regulated service" to "unregulated service".
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-26 16:17 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <20260526161738.00004146@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #87165 |
On Tue, 26 May 2026 22:09:35 -0000 (UTC) Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote: > In the US, the ulterior motive actually appears to be the fact that > POTS service is regulated (price regulated and availability > requirements regulated) whereas the "new fangled" fiber services are > free of those pesky requirements for requesting price increases or > being required to provide a particular availably (uptime) level. Well *that* explains a lot :/
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-27 00:02 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <SwqRR.261632$7J1.214680@fx48.iad> |
| In reply to | #87167 |
On 2026-05-26, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, 26 May 2026 22:09:35 -0000 (UTC) > Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote: > >> In the US, the ulterior motive actually appears to be the fact that >> POTS service is regulated (price regulated and availability >> requirements regulated) whereas the "new fangled" fiber services are >> free of those pesky requirements for requesting price increases or >> being required to provide a particular availably (uptime) level. > > Well *that* explains a lot :/ Yup. Our telco (Telus) had a really big push to convert everyone to fiber. Now we too can enjoy loss of dial tone when the power goes out. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-27 00:11 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <7XCdnUbd6c9g84v3nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87168 |
On 5/26/26 20:02, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-05-26, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 May 2026 22:09:35 -0000 (UTC) >> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote: >> >>> In the US, the ulterior motive actually appears to be the fact that >>> POTS service is regulated (price regulated and availability >>> requirements regulated) whereas the "new fangled" fiber services are >>> free of those pesky requirements for requesting price increases or >>> being required to provide a particular availably (uptime) level. >> >> Well *that* explains a lot :/ > > Yup. Our telco (Telus) had a really big push to convert everyone > to fiber. Now we too can enjoy loss of dial tone when the power > goes out. The entire south/east coast of America - from Honduras thru Texas and Florida and all the way up into YankeeLand - get huge hurricanes. They tear the shit out of infrastructure. Personal experiences ... cell towers, if still standing, only have about three days of reserve power. Then, 19th century again. Send yer texts with a heliograph or a pigeon. Copper landlines actually hold up better on the whole. Did have a spate where the VOICE didn't work, but the old DSL did. This is why I keep paying more and more for my old copper ... IT WORKS. StarLink isn't super-cheap, but IS literally "above" climate problems. Also isn't the Big-3 comms providers. Been looking into that. There ARE phones too. The main annoyance is the kinda low daily/monthly bytes allowance. You're not gonna be streaming 8K over StarLink. Musk keeps testing his StarShip by pooping-out FAKE SL sats. All-around costs, maybe he should be sending REAL ones instead. The new gen kinda look like the '2001' monoliths (intentional?) and deliver WAY above the 1st gen.
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| From | Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-28 10:32 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <10v8uj8$90uj$1@paganini.bofh.team> |
| In reply to | #87175 |
On 27.05.2026 00:11 c186282 c186282 wrote: > StarLink isn't super-cheap, but IS literally "above" > climate problems. Also isn't the Big-3 comms providers. > Been looking into that. There ARE phones too. The main > annoyance is the kinda low daily/monthly bytes allowance. > You're not gonna be streaming 8K over StarLink. You are not gonna do that via POTS/ISDN either. Aren't there plans with more allowed data transfer for Starlink?
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| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-27 08:41 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10v677l$2jh1c$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87168 |
On 2026-05-27, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-05-26, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, 26 May 2026 22:09:35 -0000 (UTC) >> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote: >> >>> In the US, the ulterior motive actually appears to be the fact that >>> POTS service is regulated (price regulated and availability >>> requirements regulated) whereas the "new fangled" fiber services are >>> free of those pesky requirements for requesting price increases or >>> being required to provide a particular availably (uptime) level. >> >> Well *that* explains a lot :/ > > Yup. Our telco (Telus) had a really big push to convert everyone > to fiber. Now we too can enjoy loss of dial tone when the power > goes out. POTS has in a way always seemed a sensible option to still have everywhere for certain emergencies, in fact perhaps households should always have access to such a line even without contracting any service, for stuff like 112. But that also requires that the handset is fully capable of operating only with the line power. -- Nuno Silva
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-27 11:04 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <dmoiemx15u.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87185 |
On 2026-05-27 09:41, Nuno Silva wrote: > On 2026-05-27, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> On 2026-05-26, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 26 May 2026 22:09:35 -0000 (UTC) >>> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> In the US, the ulterior motive actually appears to be the fact that >>>> POTS service is regulated (price regulated and availability >>>> requirements regulated) whereas the "new fangled" fiber services are >>>> free of those pesky requirements for requesting price increases or >>>> being required to provide a particular availably (uptime) level. >>> >>> Well *that* explains a lot :/ >> >> Yup. Our telco (Telus) had a really big push to convert everyone >> to fiber. Now we too can enjoy loss of dial tone when the power >> goes out. > > POTS has in a way always seemed a sensible option to still have > everywhere for certain emergencies, in fact perhaps households should > always have access to such a line even without contracting any service, > for stuff like 112. > > But that also requires that the handset is fully capable of operating > only with the line power. > Will not happen. Live on... -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-28 03:31 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <O-CdnbqPFZ_Kcor3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87189 |
On 5/27/26 05:04, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-05-27 09:41, Nuno Silva wrote: >> On 2026-05-27, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> >>> On 2026-05-26, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, 26 May 2026 22:09:35 -0000 (UTC) >>>> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote: >>>> >>>>> In the US, the ulterior motive actually appears to be the fact that >>>>> POTS service is regulated (price regulated and availability >>>>> requirements regulated) whereas the "new fangled" fiber services are >>>>> free of those pesky requirements for requesting price increases or >>>>> being required to provide a particular availably (uptime) level. >>>> >>>> Well *that* explains a lot :/ >>> >>> Yup. Our telco (Telus) had a really big push to convert everyone >>> to fiber. Now we too can enjoy loss of dial tone when the power >>> goes out. >> >> POTS has in a way always seemed a sensible option to still have >> everywhere for certain emergencies, in fact perhaps households should >> always have access to such a line even without contracting any service, >> for stuff like 112. >> >> But that also requires that the handset is fully capable of operating >> only with the line power. >> > > Will not happen. Live on... Um ... works NOW - why not always ? Kind of agree with the sentiment that copper should always be at hand for 'emergency' communications at a minimum. Towers die, cell contracts expire, copper keeps on going.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-28 09:18 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10v8toh$3ajmv$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87217 |
On 28/05/2026 08:31, c186282 wrote: > Kind of agree with the sentiment that copper should > Â always be at hand for 'emergency' communications at > Â a minimum. Towers die, cell contracts expire, copper > Â keeps on going. Copper corrodes. Copper gets stolen. Copper gets broken Copper gets struck by lightning. Your argument is based on false premises. Undersea fibre persists till the Russians trawl it up and cut it. -- Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend. "Saki"
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-28 13:42 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <uamlemx3qh.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #87217 |
On 2026-05-28 09:31, c186282 wrote: > On 5/27/26 05:04, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> On 2026-05-27 09:41, Nuno Silva wrote: >>> On 2026-05-27, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >>> >>>> On 2026-05-26, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Tue, 26 May 2026 22:09:35 -0000 (UTC) >>>>> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> In the US, the ulterior motive actually appears to be the fact that >>>>>> POTS service is regulated (price regulated and availability >>>>>> requirements regulated) whereas the "new fangled" fiber services are >>>>>> free of those pesky requirements for requesting price increases or >>>>>> being required to provide a particular availably (uptime) level. >>>>> >>>>> Well *that* explains a lot :/ >>>> >>>> Yup. Our telco (Telus) had a really big push to convert everyone >>>> to fiber. Now we too can enjoy loss of dial tone when the power >>>> goes out. >>> >>> POTS has in a way always seemed a sensible option to still have >>> everywhere for certain emergencies, in fact perhaps households should >>> always have access to such a line even without contracting any service, >>> for stuff like 112. >>> >>> But that also requires that the handset is fully capable of operating >>> only with the line power. >>> >> >> Will not happen. Live on... > > >  Um ... works NOW - why not always ? > >  Kind of agree with the sentiment that copper should >  always be at hand for 'emergency' communications at >  a minimum. Towers die, cell contracts expire, copper >  keeps on going. > The exchanges need maintenance. Would you have those monsters active all the time just to give signal to a few customers? That's too expensive. Exchanges will eventually all get garbaged, and perhaps a converter will be connected to the few that refused to migrate to fibre, so they are fooled into thinking they still have copper. -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-28 15:01 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <10v9hs1$3g4i6$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #87230 |
On 28/05/2026 12:42, Carlos E.R. wrote: > The exchanges need maintenance. Would you have those monsters active all > the time just to give signal to a few customers? That's too expensive. > Exchanges will eventually all get garbaged, and perhaps a converter will > be connected to the few that refused to migrate to fibre, so they are > fooled into thinking they still have copper. > > The point is simple: if copper were that good and low maintenance compared to fiber, no one would install fiber. -- The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property. Karl Marx
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-28 21:34 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <UYicndSFJty5cIX3nZ2dnZfqnPQAAAAA@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #87230 |
On 5/28/26 07:42, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2026-05-28 09:31, c186282 wrote: >> On 5/27/26 05:04, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>> On 2026-05-27 09:41, Nuno Silva wrote: >>>> On 2026-05-27, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 2026-05-26, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, 26 May 2026 22:09:35 -0000 (UTC) >>>>>> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> In the US, the ulterior motive actually appears to be the fact that >>>>>>> POTS service is regulated (price regulated and availability >>>>>>> requirements regulated) whereas the "new fangled" fiber services are >>>>>>> free of those pesky requirements for requesting price increases or >>>>>>> being required to provide a particular availably (uptime) level. >>>>>> >>>>>> Well *that* explains a lot :/ >>>>> >>>>> Yup. Our telco (Telus) had a really big push to convert everyone >>>>> to fiber. Now we too can enjoy loss of dial tone when the power >>>>> goes out. >>>> >>>> POTS has in a way always seemed a sensible option to still have >>>> everywhere for certain emergencies, in fact perhaps households should >>>> always have access to such a line even without contracting any service, >>>> for stuff like 112. >>>> >>>> But that also requires that the handset is fully capable of operating >>>> only with the line power. >>>> >>> >>> Will not happen. Live on... >> >> >>   Um ... works NOW - why not always ? >> >>   Kind of agree with the sentiment that copper should >>   always be at hand for 'emergency' communications at >>   a minimum. Towers die, cell contracts expire, copper >>   keeps on going. >> > > The exchanges need maintenance. Would you have those monsters active all > the time just to give signal to a few customers? That's too expensive. > Exchanges will eventually all get garbaged, and perhaps a converter will > be connected to the few that refused to migrate to fibre, so they are > fooled into thinking they still have copper. The service - albeit a bit speed limited - should be available to ALL, all of the time. Some emergency devices at minimum, but you may as well enable voice at the same time. In short, never throw away a good hardwire network. Some assert that fiber will (barely) need maint ... don't think that's entirely true. All sorts of odd things can happen to physical media. And yes if you're branching fiber to everyone there WILL need to be a lot of splitters, boosters/repeaters. The latter require electricity. No copper, no electric. A 50w PV+Batt thingie every few blocks with industrial ratings - MORE expensive than a few existing copper wires. Fiber is better for SPEED ... but I don't think it is nearly as ROBUST or SIMPLE as some here are selling it. For comm corps ... they HATE employing humans. They imagine they can get rid of 99.9% of the physical service people by going to fiber or (crappier) 5G. No more lift vans ! No more labor unions ! Yay !!! In short their motives are selfishness, cheapness, not "better customer experience". Just don't think they're gonna get what they imagine. Leave the fiber & support equip out in the elements for a decade+ and see what happens. Maybe a year ago, AT&T showed up, opened a manhole near my place, and proceeded to pull out a gigantic copper cable. The guy said 4000 pairs ... about six inches around heavily clad. Apparently it used to service the entire south end of the county. They were cutting and pulling - about half a mile's worth at a time. Trucks with HUGE spools attached. Thing is, it was perfectly good cable, not bothering anybody. At best they can sell the copper, make a quick little buck. But now all that cable COULD have done is GONE. I just see it as 4000 lost options.
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