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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #64971 > unrolled thread

M$ 365 Down, Again

Started by"WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net>
First post2025-01-29 20:24 -0500
Last post2025-01-30 12:27 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 101 — 15 participants

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Contents

  M$ 365 Down, Again "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-01-29 20:24 -0500
    Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-30 10:34 +0100
    Re: M$ 365 Down, Again Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-30 10:50 +0000
      Re: M$ 365 Down, Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-30 11:00 +0000
        Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-30 18:44 +0100
          Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-31 15:26 +0100
            Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-01-31 16:20 -0500
              Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-31 23:49 +0100
                Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-01-31 20:30 -0500
              Re: M$ 365 Down, Again Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-02-01 13:07 +0000
            Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-31 23:00 +0100
              Re: M$ 365 Down, Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-01 05:25 +0000
                Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-01 01:54 -0500
                  Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-01 14:45 +0100
                Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-01 11:39 +0100
                  Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-01 14:47 +0100
                    Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-01 15:32 +0100
                      Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-01 16:00 +0100
                        Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-02 11:39 +0100
                          Re: M$ 365 Down, Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-02 20:41 +0000
                            Re: M$ 365 Down, Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-02-02 20:46 +0000
                              Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-02 22:01 +0100
                            Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-02 22:00 +0100
                    Re: M$ 365 Down, Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-01 19:38 +0000
                      Re: M$ 365 Down, Again Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-02-01 19:58 +0000
                        Re: M$ 365 Down, Again Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-02-01 20:40 +0000
                          Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-02 11:45 +0100
                            Re: M$ 365 Down, Again Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-02-02 17:03 +0000
                              Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-02 21:58 +0100
                                Re: M$ 365 Down, Again Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-02-02 21:50 +0000
                                  Re: M$ 365 Down, Again Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-02-02 22:36 +0000
                                    Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-03 22:53 +0100
                                      Re: M$ 365 Down, Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-04 05:46 +0000
                                        Re: M$ 365 Down, Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-02-04 09:36 +0000
                                        Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-04 17:37 +0100
                                  Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-03 22:52 +0100
                                    Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-03 22:09 -0500
                                      Re: M$ 365 Down, Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-04 05:31 +0000
                                      Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-04 17:30 +0100
                            Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-02 21:29 -0500
                              Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-03 22:55 +0100
                                Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-03 22:17 -0500
                                  Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-04 17:31 +0100
                                    Re: M$ 365 Down, Again not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-02-05 07:02 +1000
                                      Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-05 01:33 -0500
                                        Re: M$ 365 Down, Again Ian <gay@sfuu.ca> - 2025-02-04 23:54 -0800
                                        Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-05 11:18 +0100
                                          Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-05 22:19 -0500
                                            Re: M$ 365 Down, Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-02-06 10:35 +0000
                                              Re: M$ 365 Down, Again not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-02-07 06:28 +1000
                                                Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-06 22:30 -0500
                                                  Re: M$ 365 Down, Again Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2025-02-07 15:39 +1000
                                                    Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-07 00:55 -0500
                                                      Re: M$ 365 Down, Again not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-02-08 07:24 +1000
                                                    Re: M$ 365 Down, Again Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-02-07 16:19 +0000
                                                      Re: M$ 365 Down, Again vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-07 17:38 +0000
                                                  Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-07 10:22 +0100
                                                    Re: M$ 365 Down, Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-02-07 12:42 +0000
                                              Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-06 22:09 -0500
                                            Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-06 23:53 +0100
                                              Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-06 23:27 -0500
                                                Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-07 10:23 +0100
                                      Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-05 11:04 +0100
                            Re: M$ 365 Down, Again John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-02-03 10:38 -0800
                              Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-03 20:27 +0100
                                Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-03 23:15 +0100
                                  Re: M$ 365 Down, Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-04 05:35 +0000
                                  Re: M$ 365 Down, Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-02-04 09:41 +0000
                                    Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-04 13:07 +0100
                                    Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-04 17:39 +0100
                              Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-03 23:14 +0100
                                Re: M$ 365 Down, Again Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-02-04 00:36 +0000
                                  Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-03 22:56 -0500
                                    Re: M$ 365 Down, Again Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> - 2025-02-05 09:54 +0100
                                    Re: M$ 365 Down, Again Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-02-05 19:32 +0000
                                      Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-05 22:23 -0500
                                        Re: M$ 365 Down, Again Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-02-06 04:50 +0000
                                          Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-06 00:45 -0500
                                            Re: M$ 365 Down, Again Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> - 2025-02-06 18:12 +0100
                                            Re: M$ 365 Down, Again Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-02-06 20:38 +0000
                                              Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-06 23:13 -0500
                                        Re: M$ 365 Down, Again Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> - 2025-02-06 18:10 +0100
                                  Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-04 17:29 +0100
                                Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-03 22:48 -0500
                                  Re: M$ 365 Down, Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-04 05:54 +0000
                                  Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-04 17:35 +0100
                        Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-02 11:44 +0100
                          Re: M$ 365 Down, Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-02 20:45 +0000
                            Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-02 22:01 +0100
                          Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-02 21:26 -0500
                            Re: M$ 365 Down, Again Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-02-03 04:17 +0000
                              Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-03 01:29 -0500
                                Re: M$ 365 Down, Again The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-02-03 09:45 +0000
                                  Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-03 09:08 -0500
                            Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-03 22:54 +0100
                  Re: M$ 365 Down, Again rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-01 19:36 +0000
                    Re: M$ 365 Down, Again D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-02 11:42 +0100
                Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-02-01 14:44 +0100
        Re: M$ 365 Down, Again Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-31 13:35 +0000
      Re: M$ 365 Down, Again "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-01-30 06:14 -0500
        Re: M$ 365 Down, Again Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-30 12:27 +0000

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#65179

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2025-02-03 22:55 +0100
Message-ID<fbbc4315-8fa9-9348-b5e7-2d7651bab364@example.net>
In reply to#65166

On Sun, 2 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 2/2/25 5:45 AM, D wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2025, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2025-02-01, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 2025-02-01, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 14:47:08 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Old nautical saying, translating from Spanish: Small craft, big misery.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Other nautical saying:
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://www.hauteresidence.com/olivia-hsu-decker-at-the-monaco-yacht-show/ 
>>>>> a-pillow-on-a-yacht-saying-a-boat-is-a-hole-in-the-water-surrounded-by-
>>>>> wood-into-which-you-pour-money/
>>>> 
>>>> It's been said that the two happiest days in a boat owner's life
>>>> are the day he buys it and the day he sells it.
>>> 
>>> Same with airplanes.
>>> 
>> 
>> Damn it Lars! So that one is out too? ;)
>> 
>> Revision... I buy a plane _and_ a pilot then. You guys are really party 
>> poopers! ;)
>
>
>  Well, how about a mini zeppelin or blimp ? Big hot
>  air balloon with a tiny house under ?   :-)
>

It's already on my list of companies to start. A luxury zeppelin liner 
between europe and the US. I just need to find a billionaire to fund it 
first. =)

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#65187

From"WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net>
Date2025-02-03 22:17 -0500
Message-ID<iCmdnVNZXNxYGzz6nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#65179
On 2/3/25 4:55 PM, D wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sun, 2 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> 
>> On 2/2/25 5:45 AM, D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2025, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2025-02-01, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-02-01, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 14:47:08 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Old nautical saying, translating from Spanish: Small craft, big 
>>>>>>> misery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Other nautical saying:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.hauteresidence.com/olivia-hsu-decker-at-the-monaco-yacht-show/ 
>>>>>> a-pillow-on-a-yacht-saying-a-boat-is-a-hole-in-the-water-surrounded-by- 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> wood-into-which-you-pour-money/
>>>>>
>>>>> It's been said that the two happiest days in a boat owner's life
>>>>> are the day he buys it and the day he sells it.
>>>>
>>>> Same with airplanes.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Damn it Lars! So that one is out too? ;)
>>>
>>> Revision... I buy a plane _and_ a pilot then. You guys are really 
>>> party poopers! ;)
>>
>>
>>  Well, how about a mini zeppelin or blimp ? Big hot
>>  air balloon with a tiny house under ?   :-)
>>
> 
> It's already on my list of companies to start. A luxury zeppelin liner 
> between europe and the US. I just need to find a billionaire to fund it 
> first. =)


   The USA has a few who are into 'aviation' ....

   Zeps are technically "better", but the framework
   is subject to stress and can snap - even if it
   was upgraded to titanium. Blimps spread the load
   across the entire envelope and can thus survive
   sudden wind gusts better. They may kinda fold
   and shimmy, but don't snap.

   Hmmmm ... maybe a 'hybrid' is possible now -
   a blimp, but 'stiffened' a bit with like
   graphite ribs so it's not SO floppy ?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#65205

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2025-02-04 17:31 +0100
Message-ID<12f8009a-b8a0-9f85-ba66-508512e93ab4@example.net>
In reply to#65187

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mon, 3 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 2/3/25 4:55 PM, D wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, 2 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2/2/25 5:45 AM, D wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2025, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2025-02-01, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-02-01, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 14:47:08 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Old nautical saying, translating from Spanish: Small craft, big 
>>>>>>>> misery.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Other nautical saying:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> https://www.hauteresidence.com/olivia-hsu-decker-at-the-monaco-yacht-show/ 
>>>>>>> a-pillow-on-a-yacht-saying-a-boat-is-a-hole-in-the-water-surrounded-by- 
>>>>>>> wood-into-which-you-pour-money/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It's been said that the two happiest days in a boat owner's life
>>>>>> are the day he buys it and the day he sells it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Same with airplanes.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Damn it Lars! So that one is out too? ;)
>>>> 
>>>> Revision... I buy a plane _and_ a pilot then. You guys are really party 
>>>> poopers! ;)
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  Well, how about a mini zeppelin or blimp ? Big hot
>>>  air balloon with a tiny house under ?   :-)
>>> 
>> 
>> It's already on my list of companies to start. A luxury zeppelin liner 
>> between europe and the US. I just need to find a billionaire to fund it 
>> first. =)
>
>
>  The USA has a few who are into 'aviation' ....
>
>  Zeps are technically "better", but the framework
>  is subject to stress and can snap - even if it
>  was upgraded to titanium. Blimps spread the load
>  across the entire envelope and can thus survive
>  sudden wind gusts better. They may kinda fold
>  and shimmy, but don't snap.
>
>  Hmmmm ... maybe a 'hybrid' is possible now -
>  a blimp, but 'stiffened' a bit with like
>  graphite ribs so it's not SO floppy ?

I heard about an experimental concept that does not use a gas for lift, 
but vacuum! Very fascinating!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#65216

Fromnot@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Date2025-02-05 07:02 +1000
Message-ID<67a28066@news.ausics.net>
In reply to#65205
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>  Zeps are technically "better", but the framework
>>  is subject to stress and can snap - even if it
>>  was upgraded to titanium. Blimps spread the load
>>  across the entire envelope and can thus survive
>>  sudden wind gusts better. They may kinda fold
>>  and shimmy, but don't snap.
>>
>>  Hmmmm ... maybe a 'hybrid' is possible now -
>>  a blimp, but 'stiffened' a bit with like
>>  graphite ribs so it's not SO floppy ?
> 
> I heard about an experimental concept that does not use a gas for lift, 
> but vacuum! Very fascinating!

More theoretical than experimental - the materials might be
possible but I don't think anyone can make them yet.

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#65219

From"WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net>
Date2025-02-05 01:33 -0500
Message-ID<nzydnZ7AocjLmz76nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#65216
On 2/4/25 4:02 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 3 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>   Zeps are technically "better", but the framework
>>>   is subject to stress and can snap - even if it
>>>   was upgraded to titanium. Blimps spread the load
>>>   across the entire envelope and can thus survive
>>>   sudden wind gusts better. They may kinda fold
>>>   and shimmy, but don't snap.
>>>
>>>   Hmmmm ... maybe a 'hybrid' is possible now -
>>>   a blimp, but 'stiffened' a bit with like
>>>   graphite ribs so it's not SO floppy ?
>>
>> I heard about an experimental concept that does not use a gas for lift,
>> but vacuum! Very fascinating!
> 
> More theoretical than experimental - the materials might be
> possible but I don't think anyone can make them yet.

   Um, no, CAN'T be made. Ever SEEN any kind of vac
   vessel even slightly compromised ? INSTANT total
   CRUSH. Maybe an unobtanium sphere .....

   I think the trick is to cleverly combine hydrogen
   and helium lift. Envision hydrogen cells - but
   INSIDE a helium envelope. Reduces fire risk to
   near zero but you STILL gain some lift.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#65220

FromIan <gay@sfuu.ca>
Date2025-02-04 23:54 -0800
Message-ID<vnv5fs$1lter$1@paganini.bofh.team>
In reply to#65219
WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 2/4/25 4:02 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 3 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>   Zeps are technically "better", but the framework
>>>>   is subject to stress and can snap - even if it
>>>>   was upgraded to titanium. Blimps spread the load
>>>>   across the entire envelope and can thus survive
>>>>   sudden wind gusts better. They may kinda fold
>>>>   and shimmy, but don't snap.
>>>>
>>>>   Hmmmm ... maybe a 'hybrid' is possible now -
>>>>   a blimp, but 'stiffened' a bit with like
>>>>   graphite ribs so it's not SO floppy ?
>>>
>>> I heard about an experimental concept that does not use a gas for
>>> lift, but vacuum! Very fascinating!
>> 
>> More theoretical than experimental - the materials might be
>> possible but I don't think anyone can make them yet.
> 
>    Um, no, CAN'T be made. Ever SEEN any kind of vac
>    vessel even slightly compromised ? INSTANT total
>    CRUSH. Maybe an unobtanium sphere .....
> 
>    I think the trick is to cleverly combine hydrogen
>    and helium lift. Envision hydrogen cells - but
>    INSIDE a helium envelope. Reduces fire risk to
>    near zero but you STILL gain some lift.

29-2 is not a big gain over 29-4. Who needs the complication?
-- 
*********** To reply by e-mail, make w single in address **************

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#65224

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2025-02-05 11:18 +0100
Message-ID<5hqb7lxb81.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#65219
On 2025-02-05 07:33, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> On 2/4/25 4:02 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 3 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>   Zeps are technically "better", but the framework
>>>>   is subject to stress and can snap - even if it
>>>>   was upgraded to titanium. Blimps spread the load
>>>>   across the entire envelope and can thus survive
>>>>   sudden wind gusts better. They may kinda fold
>>>>   and shimmy, but don't snap.
>>>>
>>>>   Hmmmm ... maybe a 'hybrid' is possible now -
>>>>   a blimp, but 'stiffened' a bit with like
>>>>   graphite ribs so it's not SO floppy ?
>>>
>>> I heard about an experimental concept that does not use a gas for lift,
>>> but vacuum! Very fascinating!
>>
>> More theoretical than experimental - the materials might be
>> possible but I don't think anyone can make them yet.
> 
>    Um, no, CAN'T be made. Ever SEEN any kind of vac
>    vessel even slightly compromised ? INSTANT total
>    CRUSH. Maybe an unobtanium sphere .....

Ever seen electrical bulbs? Some are vacuum filled.
There were also electronic valves, CRT tubes...



-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#65227

From"WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net>
Date2025-02-05 22:19 -0500
Message-ID<nyGdnXS9DLnTtzn6nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#65224
On 2/5/25 5:18 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-02-05 07:33, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>> On 2/4/25 4:02 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 3 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>>   Zeps are technically "better", but the framework
>>>>>   is subject to stress and can snap - even if it
>>>>>   was upgraded to titanium. Blimps spread the load
>>>>>   across the entire envelope and can thus survive
>>>>>   sudden wind gusts better. They may kinda fold
>>>>>   and shimmy, but don't snap.
>>>>>
>>>>>   Hmmmm ... maybe a 'hybrid' is possible now -
>>>>>   a blimp, but 'stiffened' a bit with like
>>>>>   graphite ribs so it's not SO floppy ?
>>>>
>>>> I heard about an experimental concept that does not use a gas for lift,
>>>> but vacuum! Very fascinating!
>>>
>>> More theoretical than experimental - the materials might be
>>> possible but I don't think anyone can make them yet.
>>
>>    Um, no, CAN'T be made. Ever SEEN any kind of vac
>>    vessel even slightly compromised ? INSTANT total
>>    CRUSH. Maybe an unobtanium sphere .....
> 
> Ever seen electrical bulbs? Some are vacuum filled.
> There were also electronic valves, CRT tubes...

   Well, as an experiment, WEIGH the glass envelope
   on those vac tubes ... then extrapolate that for
   a 200-foot flying vessel.

   Oh, both valves and old light-bulbs BREAK very
   easily.

   Modern incandescent bulbs are filled with argon.
   This is better and the gas/pressure helps suppress
   filament boil-off.

   Anyway, sorry, I just CAN'T see any sort of useful
   and safe vacuum blimp. One goose bumps into the
   thing and it will all implode in an instant.

   Hmmm ... MAYbe there can be a 'gas' lighter than
   hydrogen - some kind of exotic matter ? Perhaps
   some high electrostatic charge - center electrode
   and envelope both negatively charged, then the
   vacuum would not SEEM to be a vacuum so far as
   the structural components are concerned. Sounds
   kinda sparky alas.

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#65231

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2025-02-06 10:35 +0000
Message-ID<vo239p$2tjs1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#65227
On 06/02/2025 03:19, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> Anyway, sorry, I just CAN'T see any sort of useful
>    and safe vacuum blimp. One goose bumps into the
>    thing and it will all implode in an instant.
> 
This is substantially correct. The strength to weigh ratio of a vacuum 
filled  blimp or dirigible means it probably cannot exist at any useable 
size

>    Hmmm ... MAYbe there can be a 'gas' lighter than
>    hydrogen - some kind of exotic matter ? Perhaps
>    some high electrostatic charge - center electrode
>    and envelope both negatively charged, then the
>    vacuum would not SEEM to be a vacuum so far as
>    the structural components are concerned. Sounds
>    kinda sparky alas.

Cant be a 'gas lighter than hydrogen'

-- 
It is the folly of too many to mistake the echo of a London coffee-house 
for the voice of the kingdom.

Jonathan Swift

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#65234

Fromnot@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Date2025-02-07 06:28 +1000
Message-ID<67a51b61@news.ausics.net>
In reply to#65231
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 06/02/2025 03:19, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>> Anyway, sorry, I just CAN'T see any sort of useful
>>    and safe vacuum blimp. One goose bumps into the
>>    thing and it will all implode in an instant.
>> 
> This is substantially correct. The strength to weigh ratio of a vacuum 
> filled  blimp or dirigible means it probably cannot exist at any useable 
> size

If you can make small vacuum balls that float in the air, you
could potentially fill a blimp with them instead of gas. Or
instead of one hollow vacuum chamber, join the balls (or honeycomb
segments) up into one solid lighter-than-air structure of tiny
sealed vacuum chambers where only the outer ones are vulnerable
to impact.

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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#65240

From"WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net>
Date2025-02-06 22:30 -0500
Message-ID<9IudneM3jY3V4zj6nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#65234
On 2/6/25 3:28 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 06/02/2025 03:19, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>> Anyway, sorry, I just CAN'T see any sort of useful
>>>     and safe vacuum blimp. One goose bumps into the
>>>     thing and it will all implode in an instant.
>>>
>> This is substantially correct. The strength to weigh ratio of a vacuum
>> filled  blimp or dirigible means it probably cannot exist at any useable
>> size
> 
> If you can make small vacuum balls that float in the air, you
> could potentially fill a blimp with them instead of gas. Or
> instead of one hollow vacuum chamber, join the balls (or honeycomb
> segments) up into one solid lighter-than-air structure of tiny
> sealed vacuum chambers where only the outer ones are vulnerable
> to impact.


   But ONE little dent compromising the structural
   integrity and ......

   In college I sometimes worked with vac drying of
   biological samples. We'd use like an 8-inch
   polycarbonate dome fitted to a gasketed metal
   plate. You'd think polycarbonate should be kinda
   indestructible ... but it kinda depends how
   people "cleaning" it heaped on abuse. I remember
   when one imploded - sounded like a damned bomb
   and blew out the glass of the fume hood, injuring
   a couple of students. The released fumes weren't
   so great for ya either but most went up the chute.

   There's always helium-3 ... 25% lighter ... but
   on earth it's kinda unobtanium.

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#65244

FromComputer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid>
Date2025-02-07 15:39 +1000
Message-ID<67a59caa@news.ausics.net>
In reply to#65240
WokieSux282@ud0s4.net <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
> On 2/6/25 3:28 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 06/02/2025 03:19, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>> Anyway, sorry, I just CAN'T see any sort of useful
>>>>     and safe vacuum blimp. One goose bumps into the
>>>>     thing and it will all implode in an instant.
>>>>
>>> This is substantially correct. The strength to weigh ratio of a vacuum
>>> filled  blimp or dirigible means it probably cannot exist at any useable
>>> size
>> 
>> If you can make small vacuum balls that float in the air, you
>> could potentially fill a blimp with them instead of gas. Or
>> instead of one hollow vacuum chamber, join the balls (or honeycomb
>> segments) up into one solid lighter-than-air structure of tiny
>> sealed vacuum chambers where only the outer ones are vulnerable
>> to impact.
> 
> 
>   But ONE little dent compromising the structural
>   integrity and ......

And the rest of the sealed balls/segments still keep the thing up,
that was my point.

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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#65245

From"WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net>
Date2025-02-07 00:55 -0500
Message-ID<pb6cnXX0VOSoPTj6nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#65244
On 2/7/25 12:39 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> WokieSux282@ud0s4.net <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
>> On 2/6/25 3:28 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 06/02/2025 03:19, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>> Anyway, sorry, I just CAN'T see any sort of useful
>>>>>      and safe vacuum blimp. One goose bumps into the
>>>>>      thing and it will all implode in an instant.
>>>>>
>>>> This is substantially correct. The strength to weigh ratio of a vacuum
>>>> filled  blimp or dirigible means it probably cannot exist at any useable
>>>> size
>>>
>>> If you can make small vacuum balls that float in the air, you
>>> could potentially fill a blimp with them instead of gas. Or
>>> instead of one hollow vacuum chamber, join the balls (or honeycomb
>>> segments) up into one solid lighter-than-air structure of tiny
>>> sealed vacuum chambers where only the outer ones are vulnerable
>>> to impact.
>>
>>
>>    But ONE little dent compromising the structural
>>    integrity and ......
> 
> And the rest of the sealed balls/segments still keep the thing up,
> that was my point.


   But they WON'T ... implosions can be quite violent.
   If one goes it'll be a chain reaction.

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#65261

Fromnot@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Date2025-02-08 07:24 +1000
Message-ID<67a67a1d@news.ausics.net>
In reply to#65245
WokieSux282@ud0s4.net <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
> On 2/7/25 12:39 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> WokieSux282@ud0s4.net <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
>>> On 2/6/25 3:28 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 06/02/2025 03:19, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>>> Anyway, sorry, I just CAN'T see any sort of useful
>>>>>>      and safe vacuum blimp. One goose bumps into the
>>>>>>      thing and it will all implode in an instant.
>>>>>>
>>>>> This is substantially correct. The strength to weigh ratio of a vacuum
>>>>> filled  blimp or dirigible means it probably cannot exist at any useable
>>>>> size
>>>>
>>>> If you can make small vacuum balls that float in the air, you
>>>> could potentially fill a blimp with them instead of gas. Or
>>>> instead of one hollow vacuum chamber, join the balls (or honeycomb
>>>> segments) up into one solid lighter-than-air structure of tiny
>>>> sealed vacuum chambers where only the outer ones are vulnerable
>>>> to impact.
>>>
>>>    But ONE little dent compromising the structural
>>>    integrity and ......
>> 
>> And the rest of the sealed balls/segments still keep the thing up,
>> that was my point.
> 
>   But they WON'T ... implosions can be quite violent.
>   If one goes it'll be a chain reaction.

That might be. Or it might be possible to avoid that with the right
design, depending on the nature of the material. It'd be an
interesting challenge if the materials were around to start with,
although you'd still have the old problem of airships/blimps being
easily blown about in strong winds.

Note that pieces of such a light material wouldn't have much
mass compared to materials used in regular vacuum chambers, so
the impact force of bits flying around from an implosion would be
less than commonly experienced.

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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#65254

FromRich <rich@example.invalid>
Date2025-02-07 16:19 +0000
Message-ID<vo5bqm$3io04$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#65244
Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
> WokieSux282@ud0s4.net <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
>> On 2/6/25 3:28 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 06/02/2025 03:19, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>> Anyway, sorry, I just CAN'T see any sort of useful and safe 
>>>>> vacuum blimp.  One goose bumps into the thing and it will all 
>>>>> implode in an instant.
>>>>>
>>>> This is substantially correct.  The strength to weigh ratio of a 
>>>> vacuum filled blimp or dirigible means it probably cannot exist at 
>>>> any useable size
>>> 
>>> If you can make small vacuum balls that float in the air, you could 
>>> potentially fill a blimp with them instead of gas.  Or instead of 
>>> one hollow vacuum chamber, join the balls (or honeycomb segments) 
>>> up into one solid lighter-than-air structure of tiny sealed vacuum 
>>> chambers where only the outer ones are vulnerable to impact.
>> 
>> 
>>   But ONE little dent compromising the structural
>>   integrity and ......
> 
> And the rest of the sealed balls/segments still keep the thing up, 
> that was my point.

Unless the explosive collapse of the one sealed ball/segment impacts 
the integrety of adjacent segments such that some number greater than 
one of them also then explosively collapses.  At which point you have a 
runaway chain reaction that might take out a significant number of the 
balls/segments before it fizzles out.

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#65256

Fromvallor <vallor@cultnix.org>
Date2025-02-07 17:38 +0000
Message-ID<m0mup4Fakt5U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#65254
On Fri, 7 Feb 2025 16:19:34 -0000 (UTC), Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote
in <vo5bqm$3io04$1@dont-email.me>:

> Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
>> WokieSux282@ud0s4.net <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
>>> On 2/6/25 3:28 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 06/02/2025 03:19, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>>> Anyway, sorry, I just CAN'T see any sort of useful and safe vacuum
>>>>>> blimp.  One goose bumps into the thing and it will all implode in
>>>>>> an instant.
>>>>>>
>>>>> This is substantially correct.  The strength to weigh ratio of a
>>>>> vacuum filled blimp or dirigible means it probably cannot exist at
>>>>> any useable size
>>>> 
>>>> If you can make small vacuum balls that float in the air, you could
>>>> potentially fill a blimp with them instead of gas.  Or instead of one
>>>> hollow vacuum chamber, join the balls (or honeycomb segments) up into
>>>> one solid lighter-than-air structure of tiny sealed vacuum chambers
>>>> where only the outer ones are vulnerable to impact.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   But ONE little dent compromising the structural integrity and ......
>> 
>> And the rest of the sealed balls/segments still keep the thing up,
>> that was my point.
> 
> Unless the explosive collapse of the one sealed ball/segment impacts the
> integrety of adjacent segments such that some number greater than one of
> them also then explosively collapses.  At which point you have a runaway
> chain reaction that might take out a significant number of the
> balls/segments before it fizzles out.

Would I be speaking out of turn to say that the
whole idea just plain sucks? /s

Seriously, though:  the materials to keep the environment out
of the vacuum vessels are going to be too flimsy for safe lift.
Consider a picture tube of yore:  it does not float, and that's
already pretty flimsy.

BTW, tried Linux 6.14-rc1 a couple of days ago -- couldn't get
an NVIDIA binary blob to build on it, or I'd be running it
now...for Science!

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
   OS: Linux 6.13.1 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
   "Space is an illusion, disk space doubly so."

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#65251

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2025-02-07 10:22 +0100
Message-ID<83b6b926-c964-390e-6510-748e9a3f157e@example.net>
In reply to#65240

On Thu, 6 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 2/6/25 3:28 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 06/02/2025 03:19, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>> Anyway, sorry, I just CAN'T see any sort of useful
>>>>     and safe vacuum blimp. One goose bumps into the
>>>>     thing and it will all implode in an instant.
>>>> 
>>> This is substantially correct. The strength to weigh ratio of a vacuum
>>> filled  blimp or dirigible means it probably cannot exist at any useable
>>> size
>> 
>> If you can make small vacuum balls that float in the air, you
>> could potentially fill a blimp with them instead of gas. Or
>> instead of one hollow vacuum chamber, join the balls (or honeycomb
>> segments) up into one solid lighter-than-air structure of tiny
>> sealed vacuum chambers where only the outer ones are vulnerable
>> to impact.
>
>
>  But ONE little dent compromising the structural
>  integrity and ......

This is easy! Write in the manual "do not compromise the structural 
integrity", problem solved! ;)

>  In college I sometimes worked with vac drying of
>  biological samples. We'd use like an 8-inch
>  polycarbonate dome fitted to a gasketed metal
>  plate. You'd think polycarbonate should be kinda
>  indestructible ... but it kinda depends how
>  people "cleaning" it heaped on abuse. I remember
>  when one imploded - sounded like a damned bomb
>  and blew out the glass of the fume hood, injuring
>  a couple of students. The released fumes weren't
>  so great for ya either but most went up the chute.
>
>  There's always helium-3 ... 25% lighter ... but
>  on earth it's kinda unobtanium.

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#65253

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2025-02-07 12:42 +0000
Message-ID<vo4v2r$3gflo$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#65251
On 07/02/2025 09:22, D wrote:
>>
>>  But ONE little dent compromising the structural
>>  integrity and ......
> 
> This is easy! Write in the manual "do not compromise the structural 
> integrity", problem solved! 😉

Ah, the Marxist approach to science. If you don't like it, tell people 
it isn't valid or shouldn't be valid.

-- 
"It was a lot more fun being 20 in the 70's that it is being 70 in the 20's"
Joew Walsh

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#65238

From"WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net>
Date2025-02-06 22:09 -0500
Message-ID<q8qdnTdwEZjy5Dj6nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#65231
On 2/6/25 5:35 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 06/02/2025 03:19, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>> Anyway, sorry, I just CAN'T see any sort of useful
>>    and safe vacuum blimp. One goose bumps into the
>>    thing and it will all implode in an instant.
>>
> This is substantially correct. The strength to weigh ratio of a vacuum 
> filled  blimp or dirigible means it probably cannot exist at any useable 
> size
> 
>>    Hmmm ... MAYbe there can be a 'gas' lighter than
>>    hydrogen - some kind of exotic matter ? Perhaps
>>    some high electrostatic charge - center electrode
>>    and envelope both negatively charged, then the
>>    vacuum would not SEEM to be a vacuum so far as
>>    the structural components are concerned. Sounds
>>    kinda sparky alas.
> 
> Cant be a 'gas lighter than hydrogen'


   Um ... not if any protons are involved.

   But protons ain't everything.

   Maybe the collider people will come
   across something. Don't bet on it,
   but MAYbe.

   Hmmmm ... anti-electron with orbiting
   regular electron ??? Beware of ionization
   however  :-)

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#65236

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2025-02-06 23:53 +0100
Message-ID<14rf7lxgpj.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#65227
On 2025-02-06 04:19, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> On 2/5/25 5:18 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2025-02-05 07:33, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>> On 2/4/25 4:02 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 3 Feb 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>>>   Zeps are technically "better", but the framework
>>>>>>   is subject to stress and can snap - even if it
>>>>>>   was upgraded to titanium. Blimps spread the load
>>>>>>   across the entire envelope and can thus survive
>>>>>>   sudden wind gusts better. They may kinda fold
>>>>>>   and shimmy, but don't snap.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Hmmmm ... maybe a 'hybrid' is possible now -
>>>>>>   a blimp, but 'stiffened' a bit with like
>>>>>>   graphite ribs so it's not SO floppy ?
>>>>>
>>>>> I heard about an experimental concept that does not use a gas for 
>>>>> lift,
>>>>> but vacuum! Very fascinating!
>>>>
>>>> More theoretical than experimental - the materials might be
>>>> possible but I don't think anyone can make them yet.
>>>
>>>    Um, no, CAN'T be made. Ever SEEN any kind of vac
>>>    vessel even slightly compromised ? INSTANT total
>>>    CRUSH. Maybe an unobtanium sphere .....
>>
>> Ever seen electrical bulbs? Some are vacuum filled.
>> There were also electronic valves, CRT tubes...
> 
>    Well, as an experiment, WEIGH the glass envelope
>    on those vac tubes ... then extrapolate that for
>    a 200-foot flying vessel.
> 
>    Oh, both valves and old light-bulbs BREAK very
>    easily.
> 
>    Modern incandescent bulbs are filled with argon.
>    This is better and the gas/pressure helps suppress
>    filament boil-off.

I know. I happen to have one vacuum bulb at hand reach, and the bottom 
part (the part facing the floor) is darkened by evaporated metal deposits.

> 
>    Anyway, sorry, I just CAN'T see any sort of useful
>    and safe vacuum blimp. One goose bumps into the
>    thing and it will all implode in an instant.

Oh, I know that vacuum filled blimps are impossible.

> 
>    Hmmm ... MAYbe there can be a 'gas' lighter than
>    hydrogen - some kind of exotic matter ? Perhaps
>    some high electrostatic charge - center electrode
>    and envelope both negatively charged, then the
>    vacuum would not SEEM to be a vacuum so far as
>    the structural components are concerned. Sounds
>    kinda sparky alas.

Force fields :-)


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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