Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #69014 > unrolled thread

Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style.

Back to article view | Back to comp.os.linux.misc

Contents

  Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org> - 2025-06-23 00:16 +0000
    Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2025-06-23 00:34 +0000
      Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org> - 2025-06-23 00:39 +0000
        Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-06-23 01:31 +0000
          Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-06-23 01:38 +0000
          Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-23 06:00 +0000
          Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org> - 2025-06-24 02:39 +0000
        Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2025-06-23 02:40 +0000
          Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirectories, card-dealing style. Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-23 03:19 +0000
      Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2025-07-14 16:57 -0400
        Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-07-15 07:48 +0200
          Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-15 08:35 +0100
            Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-15 07:44 +0000
              Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.nospam> - 2025-07-16 10:46 +0000
            Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-15 11:47 +0100
              Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-16 04:27 +0000
          Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2025-07-15 10:24 -0400
          Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-07-15 16:35 +0000
            Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-07-19 15:35 +0000
          Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> - 2025-07-15 19:32 +0000
            Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-07-15 23:25 +0000
              Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-16 04:29 +0000
                Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-07-16 06:18 +0000
              Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-07-19 15:41 +0000
          Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2025-07-16 03:04 +0000
          Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-07-19 13:09 +0000
            Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-19 15:02 +0100
        Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-07-15 19:10 +0000
          Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-07-15 22:33 +0000
            Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-07-16 17:20 +0000
          Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-16 04:27 +0000
          Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-07-16 11:19 +0200
            Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-07-16 15:53 +0000
              Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-07-16 19:20 +0000
          Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.nospam> - 2025-07-16 10:38 +0000
    Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-23 02:22 +0000
      Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org> - 2025-06-24 02:42 +0000
    Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-06-23 04:03 +0000
      Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org> - 2025-06-24 02:45 +0000
        Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-24 04:25 +0000
          Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-06-24 06:37 +0000
            Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-24 06:55 +0000
    Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-06-23 01:05 -0400
    Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-23 08:23 +0100
      Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org> - 2025-06-24 02:47 +0000
        Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-24 03:16 +0000
          Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-06-24 04:52 +0000
            Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-06-24 01:28 -0400
              Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-24 20:38 +0000
                Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-24 21:37 +0000
                  Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-27 19:46 +0000
                Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-06-25 02:14 -0400
                  Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-06-27 19:49 +0000
                    Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-06-27 18:34 -0400
                      Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-06-28 14:07 +0000
                        Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-28 23:06 +0000
                          Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-06-29 03:41 +0000
                            Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-29 04:44 +0000
                            XDG and Freedesktop (was: Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style.) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-29 10:35 +0100
                              Re: XDG and Freedesktop (was: Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style.) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-29 23:58 +0000
                                Re: XDG and Freedesktop (was: Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style.) Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-06-30 05:18 +0000
                                  Re: XDG and Freedesktop (was: Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style.) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-30 06:52 +0000
                                    Re: XDG and Freedesktop (was: Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style.) Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-06-30 18:50 +0000
                                      Re: XDG and Freedesktop (was: Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style.) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-06-30 13:15 -0700
                                        Re: XDG and Freedesktop (was: Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style.) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-01 00:30 +0000
                                        Re: XDG and Freedesktop Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-01 08:38 +0100
                                          Re: XDG and Freedesktop John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-07-01 12:49 -0700
                                            Re: XDG and Freedesktop Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-01 23:57 +0000
                                              Re: XDG and Freedesktop Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-02 09:33 +0100
                                                Re: XDG and Freedesktop Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-02 23:41 +0000
                                                  Re: XDG and Freedesktop John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-07-03 07:55 -0700
                                                    Re: XDG and Freedesktop The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-03 16:37 +0100
                                                      Re: XDG and Freedesktop John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-07-03 08:53 -0700
                                            Re: XDG and Freedesktop The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-02 09:27 +0100
                                      Re: XDG and Freedesktop Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-06-30 16:14 -0700
                                      Re: XDG and Freedesktop (was: Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style.) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-01 00:29 +0000
                                        Re: XDG and Freedesktop (was: Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style.) Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-07-01 03:40 +0000
                                          Re: XDG and Freedesktop (was: Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style.) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-01 04:28 +0000
                                            Re: XDG and Freedesktop (was: Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style.) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-07-01 09:01 -0700
                                              Re: XDG and Freedesktop Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-01 09:10 -0700
                                              Re: XDG and Freedesktop Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-01 23:57 +0000
                                    Re: XDG and Freedesktop Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-01 00:07 +0100
                                      Re: XDG and Freedesktop Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-01 00:33 +0000
                                        Re: XDG and Freedesktop Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-01 07:02 +0100
                                          Re: XDG and Freedesktop Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-01 07:30 +0000
                                          Re: XDG and Freedesktop Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-07-01 13:36 +0000
                                  Re: XDG and Freedesktop (was: Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style.) Harold Stevens <wookie@aspen.localdomain> - 2025-06-30 04:00 -0500
                                Re: XDG and Freedesktop Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-01 00:12 +0100
                                  Re: XDG and Freedesktop Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-01 00:21 +0000
                                    Re: XDG and Freedesktop Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-07-01 04:20 +0000
                                      Re: XDG and Freedesktop Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-01 04:25 +0000
                            Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-07-01 17:00 +0000
                              Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-07-01 19:29 +0000
                                Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-07-02 18:20 +0000
                                  Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-07-03 16:18 +0000
          Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-06-24 01:13 -0400
            Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-24 06:42 +0000
              Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-06-24 03:42 -0400
                Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-06-24 19:16 +0000
      Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-06-29 12:30 +0200
        Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-06-29 20:31 +0000
          Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-06-30 08:40 +0100
          Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-06-30 14:03 +0200
        Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing  style. Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-202506.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2025-06-30 02:17 +0200
          Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing  style. Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-06-30 05:53 +0000
            Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing  style. Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-30 06:55 +0000
          Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-06-30 02:05 -0400
            Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-06-30 20:32 +0000
              Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-01 00:34 +0000
            Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-07-01 11:45 +0000
    Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style. Shadow <Sh@dow.br> - 2025-06-27 17:57 -0300

Page 4 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6  Next page →

#69199 — Re: XDG and Freedesktop (was: Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style.)

In comp.os.linux.misc, Lawrence D'Oliveiro  <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>     ldo@theon:~> ls -d ~/.[!.]* | wc -l
>     270
> Death to dotfile clutter!

Unix doesn't have Windows Registry, it has dot files.

> This is all implemented in common library code. If the same code runs on a 
> different *nix system, built against the same libraries, then it will 
> implement the same conventions for its dotfiles.

Bunch of big "if"s there.

> These are very versatile things. They not only define clickable icons on 
> the desktop, but also menu entries. And also icons in the favourites 
> toolbar. And also custom entries in the “create new document” menu in file 
> managers.

Somehow I find myself not needing any of those things.

Elijah
------
is admittedly different in UI taste

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#69203 — Re: XDG and Freedesktop (was: Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style.)

On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 05:18:06 -0000 (UTC), Eli the Bearded wrote:

> In comp.os.linux.misc, Lawrence D'Oliveiro  <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>     ldo@theon:~> ls -d ~/.[!.]* | wc -l 270
>>
>> Death to dotfile clutter!
> 
> Unix ... has dot files.

Way too many of them. How many are there in your $HOME?

The XDG spec aims to keep this clutter under control.

>> This is all implemented in common library code. If the same code runs
>> on a different *nix system, built against the same libraries, then it
>> will implement the same conventions for its dotfiles.
> 
> Bunch of big "if"s there.

Most of the Linux distros around already contain those libraries. The 
whole freedesktop.org group has widespread support among *nixes. They’re 
not some “fringe” group as you might think.

>> These are very versatile things. They not only define clickable icons
>> on the desktop, but also menu entries. And also icons in the favourites
>> toolbar. And also custom entries in the “create new document” menu in
>> file managers.
> 
> Somehow I find myself not needing any of those things.

If you run a Linux GUI, then you already have them.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#69222 — Re: XDG and Freedesktop (was: Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style.)

In comp.os.linux.misc, Lawrence D'Oliveiro  <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 05:18:06 -0000 (UTC), Eli the Bearded wrote:
>> Unix ... has dot files.
> Way too many of them. How many are there in your $HOME?
> 
> The XDG spec aims to keep this clutter under control.

Does it? Or does it just create a new closet to sweep them into?

$ ls -a $HOME |grep -c '^[.]'
72
$ find ~/.config -type f |wc
    305     327   21490
$

>> Bunch of big "if"s there.
> Most of the Linux distros around already contain those libraries. The 
> whole freedesktop.org group has widespread support among *nixes. They're 
> not some "fringe" group as you might think.

Yeah, but I run plenty of programs that don't use those libraries and
are unlikely to do so. Is ksh ever going to use ~/.config/profile ? (Is
bash?) xfig is a tool I still use and like, but it most certainly is not
using a file dialog from this century.

Not all the world is Linux, and tools like xfig predate Linux.

Also XDG has a very limited understanding of how people may organize
files. I don't have a "templates" directory, I'm not even sure what I'd
put in one. I don't have a "music" directory, and I don't need one.

Here are the directories I want to use to organize things:

  $HOME/src			# my own programs
  $HOME/packages		# tar balls and the like
  $HOME/builds			# build root for packages
  $HOME/notes			# personal text files, including email
  $HOME/bin			# where my programs live
  $HOME/lib			# where my libraries live
  $HOME/man			# where my man pages live
  $HOME/images			# photos and no-photos
  $HOME/tmp			# temporary storage, eg downloads
  $HOME/video			# video files

No capital letters in names. I co-opt some of the XDG settings to use
these, but that's working around the library instead of with it. (Eg. I
use $HOME/tmp for "templates" simply because of similar letters.)

> If you run a Linux GUI, then you already have them.

I know that the files on on the disk, I dispute that I use them. At
any one time I'm usually running just the following windowed programs:

    xterm	(x many times)
    Firefox
    Deluge
    icewm components

On a temporary basis, I start, run, and quit programs like feh, xpdf,
mplayer, gimp, xfig, vuescan. I don't think I have used any others on
Linux in the last two months. Icons and menus are not a significant part
of how I use icewm. Even the firefox process I've been using for the
last week or two right now was started from a command line in an xterm.

Elijah
------
prefers the login on console and start X manually model of Unix

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#69223 — Re: XDG and Freedesktop (was: Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style.)

On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 18:50:40 -0000 (UTC)
Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:

> Also XDG has a very limited understanding of how people may organize
> files. I don't have a "templates" directory, I'm not even sure what
> I'd put in one. I don't have a "music" directory, and I don't need
> one.

Strictly speaking xdg-user-dirs is supposed to be configurable wrt.
where exactly it locates these - but yeah, there's a lot of baked-in
assumptions about how a user's files should be organized and the whole
thing looks mostly like a "because MS did it" post-hoc standard.

Like, okay, music/pictures/etc. I get, but "templates" has always
baffled me; do they think everyone does mass mail-merge on the regular?
Or is there some breed of weirdo out there that does all their letter-
writing/Paint doodling/whatever by opening up an existing document,
making changes, and saving it as a new file?

"Public" also strikes me as bass-ackwards - assuming you're even *on* a
shared system, wouldn't it make more sense to keep public files in a
common location, rather than having to remember whether it was Ted or
Carol who had the new wifi password for the Internet-enabled toaster in
their ~/Public/confidential-office-info.txt ?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#69230 — Re: XDG and Freedesktop (was: Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style.)

On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 13:15:49 -0700, John Ames wrote:

> Or is there some breed of weirdo out there that does all their letter-
> writing/Paint doodling/whatever by opening up an existing document,
> making changes, and saving it as a new file?

Some apps can have quite complex document setups. Even something as basic 
as a word processor can be customized with different sets of stylesheets 
for different types of documents -- all specific to this particular user, 
and nobody else.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#69245 — Re: XDG and Freedesktop

John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> writes:
> Like, okay, music/pictures/etc. I get, but "templates" has always
> baffled me; do they think everyone does mass mail-merge on the regular?
> Or is there some breed of weirdo out there that does all their letter-
> writing/Paint doodling/whatever by opening up an existing document,
> making changes, and saving it as a new file?

A lot of organizational process involves standardized document
templates, either to make sure that people document or think about the
right things, or (depending on the intended audience) to ensure a
corporate style is followed.

Anyway, if these directories don’t fit your needs then nothing is
forcing you to use them and nothing is preventing your from creating
your own.

-- 
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#69257 — Re: XDG and Freedesktop

On Tue, 01 Jul 2025 08:38:23 +0100
Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Anyway, if these directories don’t fit your needs then nothing is
> forcing you to use them and nothing is preventing your from creating
> your own.

Nothing's forcing me to *use* them, but certain software insists on re-
creating them when I delete them, which is obnoxious.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#69260 — Re: XDG and Freedesktop

On Tue, 1 Jul 2025 12:49:36 -0700, John Ames wrote:

> On Tue, 01 Jul 2025 08:38:23 +0100 Richard Kettlewell
> <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> Anyway, if these directories don’t fit your needs then nothing is
>> forcing you to use them and nothing is preventing your from creating
>> your own.
> 
> Nothing's forcing me to *use* them, but certain software insists on re-
> creating them when I delete them, which is obnoxious.

Stop using that software, then.

“Doctor, it hurts when I do this!”
“Don’t do that, then!”

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#69277 — Re: XDG and Freedesktop

On 2025-07-02, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> On Tue, 1 Jul 2025 12:49:36 -0700, John Ames wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 01 Jul 2025 08:38:23 +0100 Richard Kettlewell
>> <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> Anyway, if these directories don’t fit your needs then nothing is
>>> forcing you to use them and nothing is preventing your from creating
>>> your own.
>> 
>> Nothing's forcing me to *use* them, but certain software insists on re-
>> creating them when I delete them, which is obnoxious.
>
> Stop using that software, then.
>
> “Doctor, it hurts when I do this!”
> “Don’t do that, then!”

What if the problem is toolkits or other libraries creating these just
because of the freedesktop specs? And made worse by more libraries
adopting such behaviours because "it doesn't hurt"?

(Certainly such directories *are* clutter to a subset of users... but
freedesktop isn't fighting this, so are you sure their goal with
dotfiles really was getting rid of clutter?)

I don't know how pervasive this currently is, it might be something like
dbus, which in theory is optional in a lot of tools, but once installed
on a system might end up getting a bus started often merely because it's
present.

-- 
Nuno Silva

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#69292 — Re: XDG and Freedesktop

On Wed, 02 Jul 2025 09:33:08 +0100, Nuno Silva wrote:

> What if the problem is toolkits or other libraries creating these just
> because of the freedesktop specs? And made worse by more libraries
> adopting such behaviours because "it doesn't hurt"?

I’m not aware of any such.

I can remember, I deleted the “Downloads” folder on my laptop, and every 
now and then something would complain about that. But nothing actually 
recreated it. And after a while the complaints went away.

So let us know, what exactly is/are the piece(s) of software that are 
recreating these folders when you try to delete them?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#69308 — Re: XDG and Freedesktop

On Wed, 2 Jul 2025 23:41:50 -0000 (UTC)
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> So let us know, what exactly is/are the piece(s) of software that are 
> recreating these folders when you try to delete them?

No idea - they just keep mysteriously re-appearing.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#69311 — Re: XDG and Freedesktop

On 03/07/2025 15:55, John Ames wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Jul 2025 23:41:50 -0000 (UTC)
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> So let us know, what exactly is/are the piece(s) of software that are
>> recreating these folders when you try to delete them?
> 
> No idea - they just keep mysteriously re-appearing.
> 

IIRC when I had a rash of these, it turned out that there was a file in 
.config that listed folders that had to be created on desktop startup. 
If they werent present...

~/.config$ more user-dirs.dirs
# This file is written by xdg-user-dirs-update
# If you want to change or add directories, just edit the line you're
# interested in. All local changes will be retained on the next run.
# Format is XDG_xxx_DIR="$HOME/yyy", where yyy is a shell-escaped
# homedir-relative path, or XDG_xxx_DIR="/yyy", where /yyy is an
# absolute path. No other format is supported.
#
XDG_DESKTOP_DIR="$HOME/Desktop"
XDG_DOWNLOAD_DIR="$HOME/"
XDG_TEMPLATES_DIR="$HOME/Templates"
XDG_PUBLICSHARE_DIR="$HOME/"
XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR="$HOME/"
XDG_MUSIC_DIR="$HOME/"
XDG_PICTURES_DIR="$HOME/"
XDG_VIDEOS_DIR="$HOME/Videos"


I see that has been edited to remove most of the more offensive ones
-- 
“It is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of 
making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people 
who pay no price for being wrong.”

Thomas Sowell

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#69312 — Re: XDG and Freedesktop

On Thu, 3 Jul 2025 16:37:15 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> IIRC when I had a rash of these, it turned out that there was a file
> in .config that listed folders that had to be created on desktop
> startup. If they werent present...

Hmm, good to know.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#69275 — Re: XDG and Freedesktop

On 01/07/2025 20:49, John Ames wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Jul 2025 08:38:23 +0100
> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> Anyway, if these directories don’t fit your needs then nothing is
>> forcing you to use them and nothing is preventing your from creating
>> your own.
> 
> Nothing's forcing me to *use* them, but certain software insists on re-
> creating them when I delete them, which is obnoxious.
> 
I missed the upstream on this but if it is that certain desktops insist 
on creating folders this is configurable.

-- 
“The fundamental cause of the trouble in the modern world today is that 
the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."

    - Bertrand Russell

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#69227 — Re: XDG and Freedesktop

On 6/30/25 11:50, Eli the Bearded wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.misc, Lawrence D'Oliveiro  <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 05:18:06 -0000 (UTC), Eli the Bearded wrote:
>>> Unix ... has dot files.
>> Way too many of them. How many are there in your $HOME?
>>
>> The XDG spec aims to keep this clutter under control.
> 
> Does it? Or does it just create a new closet to sweep them into?
> 
> $ ls -a $HOME |grep -c '^[.]'
> 72
> $ find ~/.config -type f |wc
>      305     327   21490
> $
> 
>>> Bunch of big "if"s there.
>> Most of the Linux distros around already contain those libraries. The
>> whole freedesktop.org group has widespread support among *nixes. They're
>> not some "fringe" group as you might think.
> 
> Yeah, but I run plenty of programs that don't use those libraries and
> are unlikely to do so. Is ksh ever going to use ~/.config/profile ? (Is
> bash?) xfig is a tool I still use and like, but it most certainly is not
> using a file dialog from this century.
> 
> Not all the world is Linux, and tools like xfig predate Linux.
> 
> Also XDG has a very limited understanding of how people may organize
> files. I don't have a "templates" directory, I'm not even sure what I'd
> put in one. I don't have a "music" directory, and I don't need one.
> 
> Here are the directories I want to use to organize things:
> 
>    $HOME/src			# my own programs
>    $HOME/packages		# tar balls and the like
>    $HOME/builds			# build root for packages
>    $HOME/notes			# personal text files, including email
>    $HOME/bin			# where my programs live
>    $HOME/lib			# where my libraries live
>    $HOME/man			# where my man pages live
>    $HOME/images			# photos and no-photos
>    $HOME/tmp			# temporary storage, eg downloads
>    $HOME/video			# video files
> 
> No capital letters in names. I co-opt some of the XDG settings to use
> these, but that's working around the library instead of with it. (Eg. I
> use $HOME/tmp for "templates" simply because of similar letters.)
> 
>> If you run a Linux GUI, then you already have them.
> 
> I know that the files on on the disk, I dispute that I use them. At
> any one time I'm usually running just the following windowed programs:
> 
>      xterm	(x many times)
>      Firefox
>      Deluge
>      icewm components
> 
> On a temporary basis, I start, run, and quit programs like feh, xpdf,
> mplayer, gimp, xfig, vuescan. I don't think I have used any others on
> Linux in the last two months. Icons and menus are not a significant part
> of how I use icewm. Even the firefox process I've been using for the
> last week or two right now was started from a command line in an xterm.
> 
> Elijah
> ------
> prefers the login on console and start X manually model of Unix

Well that is your preference but maybe you had better write your own
Operating System using the ideas you have.. Speaking of such things
on the AmigaOS up to 3.9 we used clearly labeled directories into which
we were responsible for installing various components manually and
adding stuff to the Startup-Script and the User Startup. We had no
protection but if we wanted to use stuff from the Aminet which is
still extant we had to learn how to do things.

	With GNU/Linux I had to learn new stuff but it is far less
labor intensive on my distribution, PCLinuxOS. We have a more
easily used tool to do updates which are coming at a good rate
considering all that we habe so many libraries and commands
to keep updated for security and for functionality.

	So write your own system but you might take a look at
all the other systems which have been used. AmigaOS was
evolved from TRIOS. AmigaOS had lots of problems but it
was a true Personal Computer OS.  So is PCLinuxOS.

bliss-Dell Precision 7730-PCLOS 2025.06- Linux 6.12.35 pclos1-KDE Plasma 
5.27.11

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#69229 — Re: XDG and Freedesktop (was: Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style.)

On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 18:50:40 -0000 (UTC), Eli the Bearded wrote:

> In comp.os.linux.misc, Lawrence D'Oliveiro  <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> The XDG spec aims to keep this clutter under control.
> 
> Does it? Or does it just create a new closet to sweep them into?

It actually creates a closet to pack things into, whereas before all those 
files were lying loose around the floor of your bedroom (aka $HOME). It 
actually helps to clean up your room.

>> Most of the Linux distros around already contain those libraries. The
>> whole freedesktop.org group has widespread support among *nixes.
>> They're not some "fringe" group as you might think.
> 
> Yeah, but I run plenty of programs that don't use those libraries and
> are unlikely to do so.

Many projects have converted. E.g Blender did this some years ago. 
Inkscape and GIMP do too. I think newer ones just do it as a matter of 
course.

> Not all the world is Linux, and tools like xfig predate Linux.

Freedesktop specs aren’t supposed to be Linux-specific.

> Also XDG has a very limited understanding of how people may organize
> files. I don't have a "templates" directory, I'm not even sure what I'd
> put in one.

There are people accustomed to, shall we say, more “object-oriented” ways 
of doing things. Instead of opening an “Untitled” document in the app, and 
then having to select the name and place to save it with/in for the first 
time, using a template lets you start with a document already named and 
placed correctly (and with some suitable initial settings), which you then 
open in the app to insert the actual content.

> I don't have a "music" directory, and I don't need one.

Neither do I, technically. The stuff I download is kept separate from the 
stuff I create myself.

> Here are the directories I want to use to organize things:

Suit yourself. Free Software is all about choice.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#69238 — Re: XDG and Freedesktop (was: Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style.)

In comp.os.linux.misc, Lawrence D'Oliveiro  <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 18:50:40 -0000 (UTC), Eli the Bearded wrote:
>> In comp.os.linux.misc, Lawrence D'Oliveiro  <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>> The XDG spec aims to keep this clutter under control.
>> Does it? Or does it just create a new closet to sweep them into?
> It actually creates a closet to pack things into, whereas before all those 
> files were lying loose around the floor of your bedroom (aka $HOME). It 
> actually helps to clean up your room.

How is a "closet to pack things into" different from a "closet to sweep
them into"? I think you have agreed with my statement to 99.9%.


>> Yeah, but I run plenty of programs that don't use those libraries and
>> are unlikely to do so.
> Many projects have converted. E.g Blender did this some years ago. 
> Inkscape and GIMP do too. I think newer ones just do it as a matter of 
> course.

There's an inverse correlation between "difficulty to compile for
oneself" and "likelihood to use XDG conventions".

>> Not all the world is Linux, and tools like xfig predate Linux.
> Freedesktop specs aren't supposed to be Linux-specific.

They sure as fuck are not on the other Unix I use these days, my $WORK
Macintosh. Maybe the other BSDs have picked it up, I have never used
a GUI on modern Netbsd/Freebsd/Openbsd, only shell tools.

>> Also XDG has a very limited understanding of how people may organize
>> files. I don't have a "templates" directory, I'm not even sure what I'd
>> put in one.
> There are people accustomed to, shall we say, more "object-oriented" ways 
> of doing things. Instead of opening an "Untitled" document in the app, and 
> then having to select the name and place to save it with/in for the first 
> time, using a template lets you start with a document already named and 
> placed correctly (and with some suitable initial settings), which you then 
> open in the app to insert the actual content.

I'm aware such "workflows" exist. I fully acknowledge that my way to do
things is atypical. I also am not sure how many people actually use the
"template" way to work.

>> Here are the directories I want to use to organize things:
> Suit yourself. Free Software is all about choice.

Free Software's choice is Hobson's Choice. Just unlike the old model,
you don't pay through the teeth for it. I can use what is available or
spend all my free time making something else. The same thing was true
when the C compiler cost $295, as here, which was not atypical:

Computer:
https://hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=122

Prices:
http://www.coho.org/~pete/IPC/ordering.html

I used to run locally tweaked sources and compiled versions of things,
but as the library dependencies grew, so too the pain of doing that.
Even different build options are tricky with some modern software. It's
not like Perl: mostly self-contained with just a few very basic
pre-requisites.

Elijah
------
cellphones are even worse; an Android build needs a ton of resources

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#69242 — Re: XDG and Freedesktop (was: Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style.)

On Tue, 1 Jul 2025 03:40:50 -0000 (UTC), Eli the Bearded wrote:

> How is a "closet to pack things into" different from a "closet to sweep
> them into"?

Shelves.

>> Freedesktop specs aren't supposed to be Linux-specific.
> 
> They sure as fuck are not on the other Unix I use these days, my $WORK
> Macintosh.

But that’s not really a *nix system, is it? It is “Unix®”, but “Unix®” is 
just a trademark that Apple has licensed, it doesn’t make it work like 
people expect a *nix system to work.

> Free Software's choice is Hobson's Choice.

I think people who are too accustomed to thinking like users of 
proprietary software cannot escape that mentality.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#69251 — Re: XDG and Freedesktop (was: Re: Program to dole out jpg's to subdirctories, card-dealing style.)

On Tue, 1 Jul 2025 04:28:23 -0000 (UTC)
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> > They sure as fuck are not on the other Unix I use these days, my
> > $WORK Macintosh.  
> 
> But that’s not really a *nix system, is it? It is “Unix®”, but
> “Unix®” is just a trademark that Apple has licensed, it doesn’t make
> it work like people expect a *nix system to work.

OSX is marvelous - it's Unix when freenix zealots want to count it for
representation in popularity contests vs. The Great Satan of Redmond,
but *not* Unix when they need to justify some arbitrary decision of a
freenix "standards" group as The Only Way. A true chameleon!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#69252 — Re: XDG and Freedesktop

On 7/1/25 09:01, John Ames wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Jul 2025 04:28:23 -0000 (UTC)
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> 
>>> They sure as fuck are not on the other Unix I use these days, my
>>> $WORK Macintosh.
>>
>> But that’s not really a *nix system, is it? It is “Unix®”, but
>> “Unix®” is just a trademark that Apple has licensed, it doesn’t make
>> it work like people expect a *nix system to work.
> 
> OSX is marvelous - it's Unix when freenix zealots want to count it for
> representation in popularity contests vs. The Great Satan of Redmond,
> but *not* Unix when they need to justify some arbitrary decision of a
> freenix "standards" group as The Only Way. A true chameleon!
> 

	The moderately large Satan of Redmond gets us lots of refurbished machines
on which to run some other systems most notably GNU/Linux and several 
versions
of Unix.  So don't curse the Satan for whatever other sins of bad 
programming and
insecurity they have perpetuated but rather for the good ideas they have 
bought
and supressed.

bliss-Dell Precision 7730-PCLOS 2025.06- Linux 6.12.35 pclos1-KDE Plasma 
5.27.11

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 4 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.os.linux.misc

csiph-web