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"DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets

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  "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-01-27 11:46 -0500
    Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-27 20:53 +0000
    Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-27 22:23 +0100
      Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-01-27 18:24 -0500
        Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-28 10:24 +0100
          Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-01-28 08:16 -0800
            Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-28 21:40 +0100
              Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-01-28 13:03 -0800
                Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2025-01-29 01:15 +0000
                  Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-01-28 22:10 -0500
                    Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-29 06:11 +0000
                      Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-01-29 02:44 -0500
                    Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-29 10:19 +0000
                      Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-29 15:22 +0100
                        Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-01-29 08:13 -0800
                        Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-30 09:23 +0000
                          Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-30 10:48 +0100
                          Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-01-30 13:44 +0000
                            Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-30 15:23 +0000
                              Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-01-30 20:19 +0000
                                Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-30 21:05 +0000
                                  Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-30 22:25 +0100
                                    Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-30 22:02 +0000
                                      Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-31 13:40 +0100
                                        Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-31 13:08 +0000
                                          Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-31 22:56 +0100
                                  Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-01-30 19:17 -0500
                                    Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-31 10:14 +0000
                                    Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-31 13:46 +0100
                                      Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-01-31 16:16 -0500
                                        Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-31 23:48 +0100
                                          Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-01-31 20:26 -0500
                                            Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-01 11:30 +0100
                                            Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-02-01 19:49 +0000
                                              Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-02-01 20:10 +0000
                                                Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-02 00:35 +0000
                                                  Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-01 23:10 -0500
                                                    Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-02 08:25 +0000
                                                      Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-02-02 10:16 +0000
                                                      Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-02 20:50 -0500
                                                    Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-02 11:46 +0100
                                                      Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-02-02 11:11 +0000
                                                        Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-02 21:57 +0100
                                                      Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-02 21:00 +0000
                                                        Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-03 22:51 +0100
                                                          Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-04 06:00 +0000
                                                            Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-04 17:37 +0100
                                              Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-02 11:43 +0100
                                                Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-02-02 12:53 +0000
                                                Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-02 20:52 +0000
                                                  Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-02 22:02 +0100
                                                    Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-03 03:47 +0000
                                                      Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-03 22:57 +0100
                                                        Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-03 22:24 -0500
                                                          Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-04 06:09 +0000
                                                          Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-04 17:33 +0100
                                                            Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-04 15:03 -0500
                                                              Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-04 21:59 +0100
                                                                Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-05 01:16 -0500
                                                                  Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-05 11:41 +0100
                                                        Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-02-05 06:54 +1000
                                                          Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-02-05 00:58 -0500
                                                          Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-02-05 11:04 +0100
                                Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-30 22:23 +0100
                                  Investments Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-01-30 23:07 +0000
                                    Re: Investments The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-31 10:12 +0000
                                      Re: Investments D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-31 22:52 +0100
                                    Re: Investments D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-31 13:45 +0100
                                      Re: Investments The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-31 13:10 +0000
                                        Re: Investments D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-31 22:58 +0100
                            Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-30 18:47 +0100
                              Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-30 21:00 +0000
                                Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-30 22:24 +0100
                    Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-01-29 08:40 -0800
                      Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-29 19:30 +0100
                Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-29 15:11 +0100
              Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-28 21:29 +0000
                Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-29 15:18 +0100
                  Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-30 09:17 +0000
                    Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-30 10:44 +0100
                    Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-01-30 17:39 +0000
      Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-28 05:46 +0000
        Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets "WokieSux282@ud0s4.net" <WokieSux283@ud0s4.net> - 2025-01-28 03:27 -0500
          Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-01-28 10:31 +0100
        Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-28 08:53 +0000
    Re: "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets Woozy Song <suzyw0ng@outlook.com> - 2025-01-29 19:41 +0800

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#64898 — "DeepSeek" - China AI App Shakes Up Tech Markets

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cjr85l2e4l4t

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14329549/ai-software-tech-google-openai-deepseek-china-startup.html

Chinese start-up DeepSeek sent big tech companies into a
spiral with the release of its Artificial Intelligence chatbot.

DeepSeek's AI Assistant is said to perform on-par with
ChatGPT at a fraction of the price.

After its release in January 2025, it quickly became the
most-downloaded free app on the Apple Store.

The US stock market lost $1 trillion overnight as investors
lost confidence in Western dominance in the AI sector.

. . .

   Chinese developers are very CLEVER, no more
   dismissing them. Apparently this system/interface
   was built WAY cheaper than possible in the West.

   That our Big AI interests could be so easily
   undercut has punished the stock markets -
   especially NASDAQ - today.

   It remains to be seen if DeepSeek as "as good" as
   Chat and friends - but even if it's just "good
   enough" it represents a PROBLEM.

   Somebody DID try feeding it some questions about
   China politics ... and it hedged its answers  :-)

-- 
033-33

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#64905

On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 11:46:36 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:

>    It remains to be seen if DeepSeek as "as good" as Chat and friends -
>    but even if it's just "good enough" it represents a PROBLEM.
> 
>    Somebody DID try feeding it some questions about China politics ...
>    and it hedged its answers

https://www.theregister.com/2025/01/26/deepseek_r1_ai_cot

That article goes into more detail. Biden stopped the export of H800s to 
China but apparently not before the Chinese got their hands on enough. 
Reportedly the troops at Meta are engaged in a Chinese fire drill.

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#64906

On Mon, 27 Jan 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cjr85l2e4l4t
>
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14329549/ai-software-tech-google-openai-deepseek-china-startup.html
>
> Chinese start-up DeepSeek sent big tech companies into a
> spiral with the release of its Artificial Intelligence chatbot.
>
> DeepSeek's AI Assistant is said to perform on-par with
> ChatGPT at a fraction of the price.
>
> After its release in January 2025, it quickly became the
> most-downloaded free app on the Apple Store.
>
> The US stock market lost $1 trillion overnight as investors
> lost confidence in Western dominance in the AI sector.
>
> . . .
>
>  Chinese developers are very CLEVER, no more
>  dismissing them. Apparently this system/interface
>  was built WAY cheaper than possible in the West.
>
>  That our Big AI interests could be so easily
>  undercut has punished the stock markets -
>  especially NASDAQ - today.
>
>  It remains to be seen if DeepSeek as "as good" as
>  Chat and friends - but even if it's just "good
>  enough" it represents a PROBLEM.
>
>  Somebody DID try feeding it some questions about
>  China politics ... and it hedged its answers  :-)

Is it open source? Has anyone compared it fairly? Did china steal the 
teach and this got a cost advantage? Is it even true?

So many questions!

Regardless, readers of this newsgroup will not surprised when the AI 
bubble bursts.

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#64911

On 1/27/25 4:23 PM, D wrote:
> 
> 
> On Mon, 27 Jan 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> 
>> https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cjr85l2e4l4t
>>
>> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14329549/ai-software-tech-google-openai-deepseek-china-startup.html 
>>
>>
>> Chinese start-up DeepSeek sent big tech companies into a
>> spiral with the release of its Artificial Intelligence chatbot.
>>
>> DeepSeek's AI Assistant is said to perform on-par with
>> ChatGPT at a fraction of the price.
>>
>> After its release in January 2025, it quickly became the
>> most-downloaded free app on the Apple Store.
>>
>> The US stock market lost $1 trillion overnight as investors
>> lost confidence in Western dominance in the AI sector.
>>
>> . . .
>>
>>  Chinese developers are very CLEVER, no more
>>  dismissing them. Apparently this system/interface
>>  was built WAY cheaper than possible in the West.
>>
>>  That our Big AI interests could be so easily
>>  undercut has punished the stock markets -
>>  especially NASDAQ - today.
>>
>>  It remains to be seen if DeepSeek as "as good" as
>>  Chat and friends - but even if it's just "good
>>  enough" it represents a PROBLEM.
>>
>>  Somebody DID try feeding it some questions about
>>  China politics ... and it hedged its answers  :-)
> 
> Is it open source? Has anyone compared it fairly? Did china steal the 
> teach and this got a cost advantage? Is it even true?

   It is, allegedly, open source.

> So many questions!

   Seems they made it work with a lot fewer good chips
   than western developers imagined possible - which
   means some Different Thinking, different ways to
   leverage the hardware. This different thinking was
   why Japan shot to the top of the tech pyramid in
   the 80s ... brought 'perfection thru simplicity'
   to the clunky US/UK designs.

> Regardless, readers of this newsgroup will not surprised when the AI 
> bubble bursts.

   "AI" investment/expectations are decidedly a "bubble"
   at this point. It's gonna go bang. Trump wants to throw
   a lot more money at it, but it may just be throwing
   it into the incinerator. The right time for big govt
   investment would be AFTER the incipent crash, AI 2.0
   so to speak.

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#64924

On Mon, 27 Jan 2025, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:

>> Is it open source? Has anyone compared it fairly? Did china steal the teach 
>> and this got a cost advantage? Is it even true?
>
>  It is, allegedly, open source.

Interesting! Then we will have the answers to a lot of questions in time. Note
also how china is trying to stunt the growth of US AI companies to stop them
from becoming too powerful.

>> So many questions!
>
>  Seems they made it work with a lot fewer good chips
>  than western developers imagined possible - which
>  means some Different Thinking, different ways to
>  leverage the hardware. This different thinking was
>  why Japan shot to the top of the tech pyramid in
>  the 80s ... brought 'perfection thru simplicity'
>  to the clunky US/UK designs.

I guess they benefited by being late to the game, and could discard ways and
methods that were choosen in the US?

>> Regardless, readers of this newsgroup will not surprised when the AI bubble 
>> bursts.
>
>  "AI" investment/expectations are decidedly a "bubble"
>  at this point. It's gonna go bang. Trump wants to throw
>  a lot more money at it, but it may just be throwing
>  it into the incinerator. The right time for big govt
>  investment would be AFTER the incipent crash, AI 2.0
>  so to speak.

This is the truth! The AI hype drives technologies, which after the boom, find
their right uses. Image recognition, voice recognition, expert systems, genetic
algorithms for medical research... all common and based on the fallout from AI
hypes I'm sure. The game changer this time, or at least one of them, is the open
sourceing of the models, which enables people like you and me to play around
with them.

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#64931

On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 10:24:51 +0100
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

> I guess they benefited by being late to the game, and could discard
> ways and methods that were choosen in the US?

More like a bunch of sleazoid grifters playing fake-it-'til-you-make-it
with complex problems in an *extraordinarily* complex field of study
'cause the Ponzi scheme that was their last big hype bubble has started
to dry up are, um, maybe not very good at software engineering.

...Nah. Couldn't be.

> Interesting! Then we will have the answers to a lot of questions in
> time. Note also how china is trying to stunt the growth of US AI
> companies to stop them from becoming too powerful.

Hardly "powerful" when the core product is still a glorified party
trick, Dissociated Press on steroids, which was *never* going to do the
kind of things OpenAI has been desperately trying to convince everyone
it will Real Soon Now; even Winnie-the-Pooh's version is not going to
magically overcome the fundamental limitations of LLMs.

The explanation is laughably simple: they saw a way to burn a couple
months' blood, sweat & tears and a few million bucks and, in exchange,
they got to humiliate the US tech sector and the political faction that
crowd has been sucking up to & absolutely *dynamite* a major investment
bubble that was getting ready to pop of natural causes months or years
ahead of schedule. Pooh is probably knocking back honeypots in Beijing
and giggling to himself like that Muppet gremlin in "Return of the
Jedi" right now; God knows I'd be.

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#64936

On Tue, 28 Jan 2025, John Ames wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 10:24:51 +0100
> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> I guess they benefited by being late to the game, and could discard
>> ways and methods that were choosen in the US?
>
> More like a bunch of sleazoid grifters playing fake-it-'til-you-make-it
> with complex problems in an *extraordinarily* complex field of study
> 'cause the Ponzi scheme that was their last big hype bubble has started
> to dry up are, um, maybe not very good at software engineering.
>
> ...Nah. Couldn't be.
>
>> Interesting! Then we will have the answers to a lot of questions in
>> time. Note also how china is trying to stunt the growth of US AI
>> companies to stop them from becoming too powerful.
>
> Hardly "powerful" when the core product is still a glorified party
> trick, Dissociated Press on steroids, which was *never* going to do the
> kind of things OpenAI has been desperately trying to convince everyone
> it will Real Soon Now; even Winnie-the-Pooh's version is not going to
> magically overcome the fundamental limitations of LLMs.
>
> The explanation is laughably simple: they saw a way to burn a couple
> months' blood, sweat & tears and a few million bucks and, in exchange,
> they got to humiliate the US tech sector and the political faction that
> crowd has been sucking up to & absolutely *dynamite* a major investment
> bubble that was getting ready to pop of natural causes months or years
> ahead of schedule. Pooh is probably knocking back honeypots in Beijing
> and giggling to himself like that Muppet gremlin in "Return of the
> Jedi" right now; God knows I'd be.

I like the humiliation thesis. But I also think it is a little but more 
refined than that. Causing US companies financial damage is very 
attractive to them, and if they can hasten the crash of the AI bubble 
along, they would be happy too.

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#64939

On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 21:40:42 +0100
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

> I like the humiliation thesis. But I also think it is a little but
> more refined than that. Causing US companies financial damage is very 
> attractive to them, and if they can hasten the crash of the AI bubble 
> along, they would be happy too.

Two great tastes that taste great together, yup.

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#64947

In article <20250128130321.00002cc9@gmail.com>,
John Ames  <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 21:40:42 +0100
>D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>> I like the humiliation thesis. But I also think it is a little but
>> more refined than that. Causing US companies financial damage is very 
>> attractive to them, and if they can hasten the crash of the AI bubble 
>> along, they would be happy too.
>
>Two great tastes that taste great together, yup.
>

Warning - Deepseek found n Github!
-- 
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ;
Birthdate - 29 January 1969 Redhill, Surrey, England, Uk

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#64948

On 1/28/25 8:15 PM, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <20250128130321.00002cc9@gmail.com>,
> John Ames  <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 21:40:42 +0100
>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I like the humiliation thesis. But I also think it is a little but
>>> more refined than that. Causing US companies financial damage is very
>>> attractive to them, and if they can hasten the crash of the AI bubble
>>> along, they would be happy too.
>>
>> Two great tastes that taste great together, yup.
>>
> 
> Warning - Deepseek found n Github!

   It will be *everywhere* inside a week or two.

   In any case, China HAS managed to do serious
   damage to the "AI Bubble". That's gonna COST
   us big-time and undermine future investor
   confidence.

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#64952

On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 22:10:02 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:

>    In any case, China HAS managed to do serious damage to the "AI
>    Bubble". That's gonna COST us big-time and undermine future investor
>    confidence.

Better now than after we bought a $500 billion Stargate to nowhere. 
Someone needs to give some serious thought to the CHIPS program too. 

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#64953

On 1/29/25 1:11 AM, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 22:10:02 -0500, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> 
>>     In any case, China HAS managed to do serious damage to the "AI
>>     Bubble". That's gonna COST us big-time and undermine future investor
>>     confidence.
> 
> Better now than after we bought a $500 billion Stargate to nowhere.
> Someone needs to give some serious thought to the CHIPS program too.

   Yep. Use "StarGate" a little LATER. It will be
   money much more better spent.

   The "AI" universe is still in rapid evolution.
   Don't jump on any one branch TOO early.

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#64956

On 29/01/2025 03:10, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> On 1/28/25 8:15 PM, The Doctor wrote:
>> In article <20250128130321.00002cc9@gmail.com>,
>> John Ames  <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 21:40:42 +0100
>>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I like the humiliation thesis. But I also think it is a little but
>>>> more refined than that. Causing US companies financial damage is very
>>>> attractive to them, and if they can hasten the crash of the AI bubble
>>>> along, they would be happy too.
>>>
>>> Two great tastes that taste great together, yup.
>>>
>>
>> Warning - Deepseek found n Github!
> 
>    It will be *everywhere* inside a week or two.
> 
>    In any case, China HAS managed to do serious
>    damage to the "AI Bubble". That's gonna COST
>    us big-time and undermine future investor
>    confidence.

There was a nice sharp drop in tech prices on the markets. I used it to 
increase my holding in tech funds. Fund managers dont know as much about 
AI as I do, and that's little enough.

There are other things going on in tech besides attention grabbing AI.

-- 
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly 
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential 
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations 
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with 
what it actually is.

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#64965

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Wed, 29 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 29/01/2025 03:10, WokieSux282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>> On 1/28/25 8:15 PM, The Doctor wrote:
>>> In article <20250128130321.00002cc9@gmail.com>,
>>> John Ames  <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 21:40:42 +0100
>>>> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I like the humiliation thesis. But I also think it is a little but
>>>>> more refined than that. Causing US companies financial damage is very
>>>>> attractive to them, and if they can hasten the crash of the AI bubble
>>>>> along, they would be happy too.
>>>> 
>>>> Two great tastes that taste great together, yup.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Warning - Deepseek found n Github!
>>
>>    It will be *everywhere* inside a week or two.
>>
>>    In any case, China HAS managed to do serious
>>    damage to the "AI Bubble". That's gonna COST
>>    us big-time and undermine future investor
>>    confidence.
>
> There was a nice sharp drop in tech prices on the markets. I used it to 
> increase my holding in tech funds. Fund managers dont know as much about AI 
> as I do, and that's little enough.
>
> There are other things going on in tech besides attention grabbing AI.

What is the most interesting tech trend apart from AI?

I have no tech in my portfolio. Since I work with tech, I tend to like 
what the masses don't. So I stay away from it. ;)

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#64966

On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 15:22:08 +0100
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

> What is the most interesting tech trend apart from AI?

Shit that actually works and solves a problem anyone has. Not exciting
or sexy, but probably a better investment than this quarter-assed
"solution" in search of a problem.

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#64976

On 29/01/2025 14:22, D wrote:
> 
> 
> On Wed, 29 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 

>>
>> There was a nice sharp drop in tech prices on the markets. I used it 
>> to increase my holding in tech funds. Fund managers dont know as much 
>> about AI as I do, and that's little enough.
>>
>> There are other things going on in tech besides attention grabbing AI.
> 
> What is the most interesting tech trend apart from AI?
> 
> I have no tech in my portfolio. Since I work with tech, I tend to like 
> what the masses don't. So I stay away from it. ;)
Mr D. I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed by someone else*, 
that has shown consistent growth over the last few years.

Plus a few speculative gambles.

The fund I bought into is global technology accumulation, BUT they also 
will hedge into cash in falling markets and buy long to amplify market 
movements.

No financial adviser would consider them safe, but they have really 
delivered consistent returns. It just so happens that at the height of 
the pandemic tech got a huge boost, and although it sagged later, its 
all very fashionable with the markets, whereas energy has it seemed 
almost peaked out.

The trick with investing is to follow the herd. You may thereby only see 
arseholes, but who cares if you can make 10% ROI?


-- 
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper 
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating 
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its 
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of 
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must 
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.

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#64983

On Thu, 30 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 29/01/2025 14:22, D wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, 29 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> 
>
>>> 
>>> There was a nice sharp drop in tech prices on the markets. I used it to 
>>> increase my holding in tech funds. Fund managers dont know as much about 
>>> AI as I do, and that's little enough.
>>> 
>>> There are other things going on in tech besides attention grabbing AI.
>> 
>> What is the most interesting tech trend apart from AI?
>> 
>> I have no tech in my portfolio. Since I work with tech, I tend to like what 
>> the masses don't. So I stay away from it. ;)
> Mr D. I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed by someone else*, that 
> has shown consistent growth over the last few years.

But past performance is not guarantee of future performance? ;) Jokes 
aside, I think finding a good fund manager is one way of evaluating funds, 
along with other markers and data points of course.

> Plus a few speculative gambles.

I had a few small time successful mini-gambles on turn around situations, 
and one major success. Also, naturally, many negative outcomes, but the 
successes, so far, outnumber the failures with quite a nice factor.

> The fund I bought into is global technology accumulation, BUT they also will 
> hedge into cash in falling markets and buy long to amplify market movements.
>
> No financial adviser would consider them safe, but they have really delivered 
> consistent returns. It just so happens that at the height of the pandemic 
> tech got a huge boost, and although it sagged later, its all very fashionable 
> with the markets, whereas energy has it seemed almost peaked out.

My most successful fund ever is a swedish real estate investment fund. For 
at least 2 decades they have delivered outstanding returns. I don't 
advertise, make no grand pronouncements, are owned by a boring insurance 
company/bank that it not know for their investment funds, and yet, year 
after year, they have done well.

> The trick with investing is to follow the herd. You may thereby only see 
> arseholes, but who cares if you can make 10% ROI?

Either invest ahead of the hert (difficult) or after the herd at bargain 
prices (much easier in my experience).

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#64991

On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Mr D. I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed by someone else*, 
> that has shown consistent growth over the last few years.

TNP, what do you mean by "managed by someone else"?
Not managed by you? Not managed by an investor-appointed board?

And D, what are "k8s"?
I know about 8-Ks, but in the context, that is not what it is.
And my sister-in-law signs her mail as "K8"(for Kate), but I don't think
that's it, either.

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#64993

On 30/01/2025 13:44, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Mr D. I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed by someone else*,
>> that has shown consistent growth over the last few years.
> 
> TNP, what do you mean by "managed by someone else"?
> Not managed by you? Not managed by an investor-appointed board?
> 
I mean these days I invest in managed funds, not stocks shares and bonds 
directly.

Curiously physical gold is over time a very good hedge against inflation.

£10,000 purchased by someone I know in 2005 seems to be worth about 
£80,000 now...

> And D, what are "k8s"?
> I know about 8-Ks, but in the context, that is not what it is.
> And my sister-in-law signs her mail as "K8"(for Kate), but I don't think
> that's it, either.

I can't understanbd that either.

-- 
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, 
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.

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#65006

On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> ...   I have in my portfolio anything that is *managed by someone else*,
>>> that has shown consistent growth over the last few years.
 
On 30/01/2025 13:44, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> TNP, what do you mean by "managed by someone else"?
>> Not managed by you? Not managed by an investor-appointed board?
 
On 2025-01-30, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> I mean these days I invest in managed funds, not stocks shares and bonds 
> directly.

My research says that index funds on the whole perform on a par with
most managed funds. Which I learned from Warren Buffett many years ago.

If you were a funds manager who could reliably beat the market, wouldn't
you spend your time managing your own investments rather than thos of
other people?

The only "individual stock" I hold is Berkshire Hathaway, but that is
really more of an exchange traded managed investment fund. And it has
done slightly better than SP500, butt not by a lot, and it probably will
get worse than that once Warren retires or dies.

> Curiously physical gold is over time a very good hedge against inflation.
>
> £10,000 purchased by someone I know in 2005 seems to be worth about 
> £80,000 now...

That's 11% annual yield. Good, but nbot amazing.

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