Re: Wayland Makes Progress

From	Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc
Subject	Re: Wayland Makes Progress
Date	2026-05-12 12:34 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<slrn11067i7.8ji.boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <10tnl8b$3nr4e$3@dont-email.me> <slrn11010v3.2h9.boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> <10tqjph$j234$1@dont-email.me> <slrn1103muv.600.boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> <10tt4ld$19sr8$1@dont-email.me>

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On 2026-05-11, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
> Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2026-05-10, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>> Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 2026-05-09, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2026-05-08, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 8 May 2026 13:04:06 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>>> Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I kind of agree.  I actually didn't like it much when I first 
>>>>>>>> started using it, seemed...  inefficient, some unecessary overhead.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> However, you work its peculuarities into your workflow.  I think 
>>>>>>>> the issue for me is not so much whether X11 is specifically around, 
>>>>>>>> but how disruptive the replacement is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, that's the thing; XWindows was *always* a janky, inelegant 
>>>>>>> system and is certainly ripe for replacement - but it's irksome to 
>>>>>>> have the leading candidate run by developers with a fairly blinkered 
>>>>>>> view of GUI design and an overall autocratic attitude towards user 
>>>>>>> needs/feedback.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Spot on.  You can't presume to know what end users want, or how they wil
>>>>>> use things.  People will find their own idiosyncratic ways to solve
>>>>>> problems, to use technology.  They'll invent workflows and use cases and
>>>>>> programs you never thought of.  And this is GOOD.
>>>>>
>>>>> Usually it is good, but in the extreme it is not so good:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://xkcd.com/1172/
>>>>>
>>>>> The big Wayland problem has been they are from the same cut as the 
>>>>> systemd crowd (dictatorial know it alls) and so they threw out things 
>>>>> that many people actually used that were not "xkcd level unreasonable".  
>>>>> An application being able to request its windows be positioned at a 
>>>>> specific location on screen is not unreasonable, rather it is expected.  
>>>>> And then spent years arguing "no one needs that" before they finally 
>>>>> were beaten into admitting that it was a feature that many *did* need.
>>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> I don't quite get the point the xkcd is trying to make...
>>>
>>> It is an extreme version of the API acces statement of: "any 
>>> undocumented aspect of your API will eventually be discovered, and 
>>> relied upon, by someone, such that if you change this aspect, someone's 
>>> workflow will be disrupted and complain".
>>>
>>> The XKCD used a bug as the "undocumented aspect" but the same thing 
>>> happens with things as simple as: version 1 of API just happens to 
>>> return keys in ASCII sorted order, but the documentation is slient as 
>>> to any specific order for the returning keys.  Some change is made to 
>>> the server behind the API, such that the happenstance of ASCII sorted 
>>> order for keys in the API return bundle no longer apples, and keys now 
>>> return in an arbitrary order (not 'random' per.  se., but no longer 
>>> "ASCII sorted" either).  But, the fact that, pre bug-fix, the API 
>>> happened to always return in ASCII sorted order *will* have been relied 
>>> upon by someone (or more than one 'someone'), despite the actual 
>>> documentation being silent, such that post bug fix, someone(s) will 
>>> complain that the keys are no longer returning in ASCII sorted order 
>>> and their code is now badly broken.
>>>
>> 
>> I get that, but if its undocumented its not an intentional feature, so
>> yes, it makes sense in that context.  I was more referring to features
>> which are documented, but which may seem to not be useful or required
>> (such as, placing a new window at a specific coordinate)
>
> You had said, in the post to which I replied:
>
>>>>> ... They'll invent workflows and use cases and programs you never
>>>>> thought of.
>
> To which the XKCD cartoon is a perfect (albiet extreme) fit.  Some 
> "user" invented a workflow based on the made up "CPU heating" bug in 
> the made up software of the cartoon.  That was the point of my 
> referencing the XKCD, an extreme, comical, example of "inventing 
> workflows ... you never thought of". 
>

I suppose...

Everything can become comical if taken to the extreme.


>>>> The whole "no one needs that" argument is terrible.  It betrays to me a
>>>> particular mindset, that is too overrepresented in Open Source.  It to
>>>> me, correlated with a pariticular political style, but I won't go into
>>>> that.  It shows a lack of imagination and a desire for control and
>>>> software that is created with that mindset, in particular, software like
>>>> Wayland, will come out hobbled and the opposite if what the
>>>> tinkerer/hobbyist/developer community needs.
>>>
>>> It's a "dictatorial" mindset: you will use what I give you, in the 
>>> manner I specify, and be happy with it, or else you can go f**k 
>>> yourself.  The systemd/wayland/gnome crowd has become a magnet for this 
>>> personality type.
>> 
>> When I used an Apple MacBook for work, I was shoked at how little I
>> could change about the GUI.  There were only two shades of highlight,
>> blue or grey.  Why?  Because of some vision.  Apple wanted me to
>> experince the computer the way THEY invisaged.  No thanks...
>
> That sounds like the systemd/wayland/gnome crowd is copying Apple and 
> Jory Ive there.  As I don't have/use a Mac, I'm unaware of just how 
> "protective" the walled garden of a Mac really is.
>

Its ironic considering that the Apple started with tinkerers tinkering.
So many people developed skills be learning on open systems, learning
how things worked, customising, its stifling to close things off.  It
propagates the wrong attitude, the the computer is an "appliance" that
can only be used in narrow ways, and not something to be explored and
modified.

It may nor may not be cause/effect, but I notice that younger people are
actually not that computer literate.


>> This may be OK for people who have no imagination whatsover, and no
>> desire to imagine anythig working different to how it is presented to
>> that, but thats not me.
>
> Sadly, your sentence describes 98.23% (made up percentage) of plain 
> users (those to which the computer is nothing more than a tool to do 
> something else, even if that something else is simply "doomscroll 
> facebook").  They make no changes, in very large part because they are 
> simply unaware it is even possible to make any customizations.  Which 
> then gives the dictatorial mindset developers (and companies) reign to 
> dictate, as those 98.23% simply won't complain about anything to 
> provide pushback on changes.


Worse is the workplace, which makes no changes, and makes its staff use
convoluted methods and workflows.  The systems at my workplace are a
mess.  files everwhere, under different systems, people unable to copy
and paste, to much copying and pasting.  Receiving information as a
"screenshot" or "snippet" instead of pasted, forcing me to have to zoom
on in a blurry picture to read a number that was on their screen, then
have to alt-tab into another document and type it in, hoping I got it
right.  Why screengrabs when I need the TEXT!

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Thread

Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-30 07:50 +0000
  Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2026-04-30 12:29 +0000
    Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-30 17:29 +0100
      Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 09:53 -0700
        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-04-30 18:02 +0100
          Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 10:15 -0700
            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-30 22:26 +0000
              Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 13:56 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-01 22:41 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 15:54 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-01 23:07 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-04 08:32 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-04 23:40 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-04 15:20 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-04 23:52 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-05 08:12 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-05 15:57 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-05 09:10 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-05-05 18:14 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-06 17:41 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-05 21:52 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-05 15:26 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-06 04:11 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-06 08:43 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-06 16:30 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-06 21:13 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-06 22:06 -0400
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-07 03:49 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-07 16:37 -0400
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-07 13:06 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-07 18:35 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-07 21:30 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-08 12:54 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-08 19:07 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-08 21:58 -0400
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 03:31 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-09 00:48 -0400
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 07:44 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-09 13:46 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 16:42 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-09 22:02 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-09 23:38 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-10 19:31 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-15 13:55 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-15 17:04 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 23:39 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-10 20:09 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 03:19 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 01:03 -0400
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 06:05 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 11:35 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 16:38 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 20:21 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 09:10 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 19:42 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 01:58 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:18 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 15:43 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 18:27 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 03:17 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-13 13:08 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-12 10:34 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 03:22 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 12:13 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 16:11 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 11:20 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 15:45 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 19:48 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 01:43 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:26 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 22:15 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-12 02:57 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-09 13:42 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 16:35 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-09 22:04 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 12:47 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 12:15 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 17:26 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 01:04 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-10 12:33 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 23:12 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-11 13:12 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 14:45 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 16:05 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 17:37 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 02:35 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 23:42 -0400
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:31 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:27 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 10:41 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:12 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 20:46 -0400
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 03:55 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-12 21:44 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 17:09 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-13 19:47 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 10:25 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-14 18:38 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:34 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 17:10 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-13 21:34 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 10:26 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-14 12:43 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 11:54 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-14 18:38 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 22:33 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-14 23:28 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-15 04:36 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-15 04:58 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-15 08:01 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-15 17:20 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-15 11:21 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-15 02:37 -0400
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-15 17:17 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-17 05:25 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-14 17:08 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:27 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 17:36 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:18 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:22 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 20:41 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:21 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:04 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 13:24 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 15:10 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-12 08:54 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:29 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:23 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:16 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:36 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-12 09:51 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 03:52 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-12 19:55 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 03:45 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 09:46 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 18:09 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 02:55 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 23:46 -0400
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:25 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:07 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:00 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 20:58 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:27 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:24 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 21:05 -0400
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 13:19 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 15:04 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 18:39 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-12 10:44 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 04:28 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-12 21:50 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:10 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:22 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 11:49 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:59 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 11:34 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 04:23 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:14 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 11:23 +0100
                Peoples [Was: Wayland Makes Progress] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-13 13:34 +0200
                Re: Peoples [Was: Wayland Makes Progress] Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-15 20:17 +0000
                Re: Peoples [Was: Wayland Makes Progress] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-15 22:28 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-16 08:17 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-17 00:02 -0400
                Pre-history (was Re: Wayland Makes Progress) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-18 15:56 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-13 13:21 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 14:43 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-14 12:55 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 14:19 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-14 16:51 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-14 23:08 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-14 22:35 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-14 23:39 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-15 14:04 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-16 12:45 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-16 20:46 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 15:49 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-13 09:10 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-11 22:54 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 03:24 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:31 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:39 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 10:55 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 13:18 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:51 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 15:50 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-12 08:23 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:38 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 12:04 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-07 21:29 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-09 10:18 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-09 13:49 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-10 13:00 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-09 20:46 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 01:06 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-10 13:08 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-09 23:33 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-08 21:45 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-08 15:23 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 03:42 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-06 01:35 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-06 17:49 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-06 19:05 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-07 12:59 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-07 16:55 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-07 21:32 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-08 12:56 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-08 18:05 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-08 13:01 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-08 21:41 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-09 14:03 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-09 15:46 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 16:56 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 18:04 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 16:51 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 18:40 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-10 16:50 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 22:46 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-15 19:58 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-15 21:23 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-15 21:08 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-05-17 08:01 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-17 03:35 -0400
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-17 10:31 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-17 11:11 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-17 14:52 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-17 16:35 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-17 21:00 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 00:28 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-02 10:25 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-04 09:43 -0700
        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-01 15:32 +0000
          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-01 22:21 +0200
            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-01 20:36 +0000
              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-01 22:37 +0000
              Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-01 23:40 +0100
              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-02 09:07 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-02 12:32 +0200
              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-02 12:29 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-02 20:22 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-02 23:27 +0000
            Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-01 23:39 +0100
            Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-03 09:20 +0200
      Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-04-30 14:39 -0400
      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-01 15:29 +0000
    Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-01 09:30 +0000
      Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-01 13:36 +0200
        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-01 22:36 +0000
          Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-02 12:43 +0200
            VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-05-02 10:53 +0000
              Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-02 13:14 +0200
                Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-02 13:29 +0000
              Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-02 13:39 +0200
                Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-05-02 11:52 +0000
                Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-02 13:32 +0000
                Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-02 15:09 +0100
                Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-02 18:29 +0000
                Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-02 19:15 +0200
                Re: VMware (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-02 20:25 +0200
      Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-03 12:34 +0000
        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-03 13:50 +0100
        Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-03 22:03 +0000
          Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-04 12:51 +0000
            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-04 19:35 +0000
              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-07 12:56 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-07 16:53 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Leroy H <lh@somewhere.net> - 2026-05-07 17:39 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-07 20:10 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-08 13:04 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-08 14:27 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-08 19:05 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-09 14:01 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 15:15 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 16:24 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-09 14:44 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 23:08 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 00:30 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-10 13:04 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-08 21:53 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-08 15:13 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-09 13:55 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-09 15:52 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-10 13:10 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-10 18:46 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-11 13:38 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-11 17:46 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 18:57 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-11 20:07 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-15 09:10 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 02:04 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 22:49 -0400
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:38 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:34 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 23:30 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-11 13:30 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 16:56 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-11 22:38 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 02:25 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-05-12 08:02 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 02:24 -0400
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:53 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 17:09 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 17:06 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 22:54 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-13 13:39 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:58 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:03 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-13 22:54 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 15:56 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-13 13:13 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:51 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-16 08:20 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-16 20:24 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 22:30 -0400
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:44 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 12:15 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-13 16:16 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-11 23:01 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 02:11 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 19:58 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:53 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:56 +0200
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:44 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:40 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:49 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-12 08:06 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-13 10:34 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:47 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-12 12:40 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 17:03 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 00:33 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-10 13:01 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 23:21 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-11 13:52 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-08 09:23 +1000
              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-09 10:02 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-09 12:58 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 17:14 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-09 20:46 +0000
                Dump Truck (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-05-09 21:30 +0000
                Re: Dump Truck (Was: Wayland Makes Progress) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 00:58 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-09 14:38 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 23:12 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-09 16:22 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-09 23:33 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 01:02 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-10 17:40 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 12:11 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 15:52 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 09:22 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 03:51 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 21:14 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 01:14 -0400
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:58 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 00:36 -0400
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 17:03 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 12:40 -0400
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 03:27 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-09 17:02 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 01:00 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 00:57 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-10 17:40 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 22:54 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 12:12 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-11 15:55 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 09:32 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-11 17:46 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-11 21:50 -0400
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:12 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 03:23 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 03:16 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-11 21:23 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-12 01:23 -0400
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-12 14:29 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-12 16:41 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 23:16 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-05-09 14:35 -0700
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-09 23:52 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-10 01:08 +0100
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-05-10 13:33 +0000
                Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-10 23:15 +0000
            Re: Wayland Makes Progress Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-04 23:57 +0000
              Re: Wayland Makes Progress Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2026-05-07 12:50 +0000
            Re: Wayland Makes Progress rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-05 01:09 +0000

csiph-web