Re: Typical Mac users

From	"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc, comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject	Re: Typical Mac users
Date	2026-04-09 11:52 +0200
Message-ID	<pg9kamx7dp.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> (permalink)
References	<users-20260408190223@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> <10r65k8$3pmph$1@dont-email.me> <10r667u$3ohtf$3@dont-email.me> <10r6il6$3td01$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 2026-04-08 23:51, Rich wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.misc Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2026-04-08, John Bokma wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/04/2026 20:05, Stefan Ram wrote:
>>>> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote or quoted:
>>>> :The /typical/ Mac user [1] who is the person Apple targets in their
>>>> :marketing is someone who views "a computer" as simply a tool to
>>>> :accomplish some other task(s), in the same way that most automobile owners
>>>> :view their car as a "means for personal transportation from point A to
>>>> :point B".
>>
>> Car analogies tend to be a somewhat bad medium. As for this one
>> specifically: how do car owners view their cars exactly?
>>
>> Is it plausible to expect all of them view cars in the same way? You
>> won't have a subset who prefers knowing how it operates, and a subset
>> which strongly dislikes knowing details, and all the intermediate
>> options?
>>
>> People who prefer driving stick with gear changes, and people who want
>> automatic?
>>
>> Those who do not care about the energy source, those who use at least
>> some sort of electric power, those who prefer gasoline, those who are
>> into diesel...
> 
> Of course, but note that you said "subset".  I.e., not the entire set.
> 
> Go query a group of random car owners and ask how they have maintenance
> performed on their cars.  Assuming you don't bias your result by
> intentionally picking from a group known to be "hands on" you will find
> that even what I myself would consider basic maintenance (simple engine
> oil and filter change) is something that, likely, zero of them perform
> themselves. 

It is conceptually easy, but it is messy. And then there is the 
difficulty of disposing of the old oil according to the regulations. 
Then there is the detail that in some cars you also have to replace 
little things like a gasket every time you remove the oil bolt.

But I recently saw an advert for a sort of garage where the owner does 
the job and rents the space and the tools.

> Increase the difficulty level some notches (replace door
> lock actuator inside passenger door, replace shock absorbers, replace
> timing chain and gears, replace water pump, replace alternator, replace
> flex plate between engine and transmission torque converter, all of
> which I have done myself over the years) and you'll find an ever
> smaller number of car owners that could perform that maintence job.
> 

While I know the theory of how to do some of that, some of the tasks you 
describe are physically hard to do.


> In fact, according to this webpage, less than 50% of American car
> drivers even know how to change a flat tire, and that is a task that
> the owner's manuals actually explain how to perform:
> 
> <https://www.automotive-fleet.com/10245052/less-than-50-of-american-drivers-know-how-to-change-a-tire>

There was talk about having that on the driving exam here.

> 
> The over 50% in that web pages survey group have zero hands on
> knowledge about their cars internal operation.  The get in, fasten
> safety belts, insert and turn key (or press a button depending on age
> of the car) and magically it allows them to get from point A to point
> B.  I.e., the car is just a transportation tool, they leave the "how it
> works, how do I fix it" effort to someone else.

My car has a lot of modern technology that was not even mentioned in the 
car internal book I read twenty years ago. Plus the electronics.

The only thing I messed with with my current car is replacing the head 
light bulbs. And I think they ended a bit too high. Oh, yes, I had a 
puncture, and the "repair kit" did not work. This car has no spare wheel.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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Thread

Typical Mac users ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-04-08 18:05 +0000
  Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-08 20:09 +0200
    Re: Typical Mac users Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-08 19:19 +0100
      Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-08 21:25 +0200
        Re: Typical Mac users Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-04-08 21:54 +0000
          Re: Typical Mac users John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-08 15:20 -0700
            Re: Typical Mac users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-09 03:43 +0000
            Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-09 11:53 +0100
              Re: Typical Mac users "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-09 13:09 +0200
                Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-09 12:23 +0100
              Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-09 14:15 +0200
                Re: Typical Mac users John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-09 07:59 -0700
                Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-09 17:24 +0200
                Re: Typical Mac users -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-04-09 13:25 -0400
                Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-09 20:09 +0200
              Re: Typical Mac users Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2026-04-10 14:22 +0300
                Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-10 16:21 +0100
                Re: Typical Mac users Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-11 21:54 +0000
                Re: Typical Mac users Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2026-04-12 09:25 +0200
                Re: Typical Mac users -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-04-12 10:08 -0400
          Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-09 12:07 +0200
            Re: Typical Mac users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-09 19:14 +0000
              Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-09 21:28 +0200
              Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-09 12:53 -0700
              Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-10 13:35 +0200
                Re: Typical Mac users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-10 18:16 +0000
                Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-10 20:31 +0200
        Re: Typical Mac users Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-09 10:21 +0100
      Re: Typical Mac users Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-04-08 21:51 +0000
        Re: Typical Mac users "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-09 11:52 +0200
          Re: Typical Mac users -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-04-09 13:37 -0400
            Re: Typical Mac users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-09 19:20 +0000
            Re: Typical Mac users "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-09 22:06 +0200
              Re: Typical Mac users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-10 03:34 +0000
            Re: Typical Mac users Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-04-14 07:04 -0400
          Re: Typical Mac users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-09 19:17 +0000
            Re: Typical Mac users "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-09 22:07 +0200
    Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-08 20:39 +0100
      Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-08 22:14 +0200
    Re: Typical Mac users Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-11 00:22 +0000
      Re: Typical Mac users Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-11 09:52 +0100
  Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-08 20:37 +0100
    Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-08 22:48 +0200
      Re: Typical Mac users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-09 03:57 +0000
    Re: Typical Mac users Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-04-08 17:26 -0400
      Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-09 11:51 +0100
        Re: Typical Mac users Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-04-09 12:34 -0400
    Re: Typical Mac users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-09 03:51 +0000
      Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-09 11:54 +0100
  Re: Typical Mac users Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2026-04-21 16:05 -0700
    Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-21 19:10 -0400
      Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-22 10:04 +0100
        Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-22 12:46 -0400
          Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-22 20:46 +0100
    Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-22 10:01 +0100
      Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-22 12:45 -0400
        Re: Typical Mac users Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-04-22 13:49 -0400
          Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-22 14:24 -0400
            Re: Typical Mac users "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-22 21:16 +0200
              Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-22 15:21 -0400
                Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-22 20:49 +0100
                [OT] reductio ad redscarium (was: Re: Typical Mac users) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-26 07:17 +0100
                Re: [OT] reductio ad redscarium The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-26 11:51 +0100
                Re: [OT] reductio ad redscarium CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-26 07:43 -0400
                Re: [OT] reductio ad redscarium CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-26 07:32 -0400
                Re: [OT] reductio ad redscarium "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-26 13:57 +0200
                Re: [OT] reductio ad redscarium Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-04-26 10:25 -0700
                Re: [OT] reductio ad redscarium Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-26 18:35 +0100
                Re: [OT] reductio ad redscarium rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-26 17:51 +0000
                Re: [OT] reductio ad redscarium Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-26 18:59 +0100
                Re: [OT] reductio ad redscarium rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-26 22:39 +0000
                Re: [OT] reductio ad redscarium CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-26 18:52 -0400
                Re: [OT] reductio ad redscarium The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-27 11:15 +0100
            Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-22 20:49 +0100
              Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-22 19:09 -0400
                Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-22 18:31 -0700
                Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-22 22:02 -0400
                Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-23 15:02 +0200
                Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-23 09:52 +0100
                Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-23 09:23 -0400
                Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-23 08:01 -0700
                Re: Typical Mac users -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-04-23 05:36 -0400
                Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-23 08:11 -0700
                Re: Typical Mac users John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-23 09:49 -0700
                Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-23 16:31 -0400
                Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-23 14:19 -0700
                Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-23 19:59 -0400
                Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-23 19:32 -0700
                Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-24 08:33 -0400
                Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-24 09:30 -0700
                Re: Typical Mac users John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-24 08:48 -0700
              Re: Typical Mac users Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-23 08:26 +0100
                Re: Typical Mac users "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-04-23 12:35 +0200
                Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-23 15:16 +0100
                Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-23 09:11 -0400
                Re: Typical Mac users Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-23 17:35 +0100
                Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-23 16:42 -0400
                Re: Typical Mac users Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-24 09:14 +0100
                Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-24 08:41 -0400
                Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-24 13:45 +0100
                Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-24 16:06 +0200
                Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-24 10:57 -0400
                FUD, again? (was: Re: Typical Mac users) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-25 10:53 +0100
                Re: FUD, again? CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-25 07:45 -0400
                [OT] Re: Typical Mac users Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-25 10:44 +0100
                Re: [OT] Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-25 07:29 -0400
                Re: [OT] Re: Typical Mac users Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-26 07:23 +0100
                Re: [OT] Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-26 07:36 -0400
                Re: Typical Mac users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-23 18:47 +0000
                Re: Typical Mac users Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-25 10:57 +0100
                Re: Typical Mac users rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-25 18:52 +0000
            Re: Typical Mac users Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-04-23 08:53 -0400
          Re: Typical Mac users Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-04-22 13:47 -0700
        Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-22 20:43 +0100
          Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-22 19:07 -0400
        Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-22 21:51 +0200
          Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-23 15:05 +0200
    Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-22 15:33 -0700
      Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-23 09:51 +0100
        Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-23 08:21 -0700
          Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-23 17:04 +0100
            Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-23 19:06 +0200
            Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-23 16:40 -0400
              Re: Typical Mac users John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-04-23 23:44 +0200
                Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-23 20:02 -0400
            Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-23 14:20 -0700
          Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-23 16:39 -0400
            Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-24 09:34 +0100
    Re: Typical Mac users Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-22 23:21 +0000
      Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-22 18:30 -0700
        Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-22 21:59 -0400
          Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-22 19:03 -0700
            Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-23 09:56 +0100
              Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-23 08:20 -0700
                Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-23 17:03 +0100
                Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-23 14:21 -0700
                Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-24 09:46 +0100
                Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-24 09:34 -0700
                Re: Typical Mac users The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-25 11:14 +0100
                Re: Typical Mac users Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-04-25 19:40 -0700
            Re: Typical Mac users CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-04-23 09:03 -0400

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