Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it

Subject	Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc
References	(6 earlier) <vacucjxlnh.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <tthvvq$27bbi$26@dont-email.me> <5q8vcjxgqm.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <E_KcnbZiKM629mD-nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@earthlink.com> <au81djx3vj.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
From	"28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net>
Organization	mitotic resell
Date	2023-02-28 10:49 -0500
Message-ID	<n82dnezIYPQRv2P-nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@earthlink.com> (permalink)

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On 2/28/23 7:33 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-02-28 03:46, 28A.I873 wrote:
>> On 2/27/23 1:19 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2023-02-27 11:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 27/02/2023 10:13, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-02-27 11:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>> On 27/02/2023 09:34, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2023-02-27 01:06, David W. Hodgins wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 26 Feb 2023 18:32:38 -0500, The Natural Philosopher 
>>>>>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I am pretty sure generally NO.
>>>>>>>>> Otherwise databases would have a hard time working
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Data base applications work by having one thread that does the
>>>>>>>> physical i/o for each file that contains the database. Multiple
>>>>>>>> applications can use the database, but they don't do the i/o to the
>>>>>>>> disk.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not all database applications work that way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For example, in MsDOS an application could lock for write a 
>>>>>>> section of a file, write that, then remove the lock. Another 
>>>>>>> application could be reading the same file, even writing in 
>>>>>>> another section.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This functionality was an add on: you needed to run the optional 
>>>>>>> share.exe. But Windows had it natively.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe Microsoft Access works like that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am not sure this behaviour can be done in Linux. Long ago it 
>>>>>>> could not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> File lockining always existed at the level of IIRC whole files.
>>>>>> But obliviously it is far far easier to have a databse engine 
>>>>>> accepting all requests and using (at least) just one process, if 
>>>>>> not one thread, to do all I/O
>>>>>
>>>>> Easier, depends. MS Access is trivially easy to use (for simple 
>>>>> databases).
>>>>>
>>>> You call that a database? I dont. Any more than SqlLite is a 
>>>> database...both are single user/process  access only.
>>>
>>> LOL
>>>
>>> Well, there is money in it ;-)
>>
>>    Access has its place and uses - and the 3rd-gen drag-n-drop
>>    form builder is something I wish they ALL had (ok, you CAN
>>    have 'em - for $$$+). Where I'm at now the inventory DB is
>>    on Access. Only one person uses it at a time anyhow and
>>    several people have been able to figure out how to tweak
>>    the forms/fields/etc a little, so ...
>>
>>    Now for the more-used stuff ... SQL Server or (preferably)
>>    MySQL (not MariaDB). Thing is I'm pretty much the only one
>>    who can mod those and it ain't THAT long until retirement
>>    and there's no proper heir-apparent ......... (damn that
>>    work-ethic ..........)
> 
> 
> We used MS Access at an ISP, back on 1998, for keeping track of second 
> level (client) incidents. The team could be 6 people using the database 
> at the same time (both read and write). There was one "database file" in 
> a desktop machine acting as server for the group, and then several 
> desktop machines running the application, which was another ms access 
> file. Sharing directories on the network. I don't remember anybody 
> reporting glitches related to concurrent access, besides two people 
> trying to write to the same record, but that was very rare because of 
> how we were organized.
> 
> Creating/maintaining the database and the applications/forms was 
> trivially easy. Libre Office is getting _now_ near to what ms access did 
> 25 years ago. We could change our MS-A database in a day, even an hour, 
> not involving higher management. And we could obtain stats and graphs 
> which our management loved.
> 
> And MS Access was used because it was what the office people had access 
> to (all computers were provided with a full MS Office instance), and we 
> had people knowing it. The true enterprise database used Vantive.
> 
> So yes, MS Access is indeed a serious database used in the enterprise 
> office world.


   You don't need a nuclear weapon to swat a fly. The "big" DBs
   like Oracle, SQL Server, MySQL - those are just way too much
   work to handle a lot of trivial DB needs for a large segment.
   Access works. It's ubiquitous. People can figure it out.

   As for Libre ... they (or was it Star/Open-Office ?) used to
   have an Access clone. Not quite as good, but it also worked
   and people could cope. Then it went away. Libre's idea of
   a 'database' now seems to be a front-end for their spreadsheet.

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Contents of file changed while application is reading it Clark Smith <noaddress@nowhere.net> - 2023-02-26 18:52 +0000
  Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2023-02-26 19:20 +0000
  Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2023-02-26 21:45 +0000
    Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-26 23:05 +0100
      Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-26 23:38 +0000
    Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-26 23:32 +0000
      Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2023-02-26 19:06 -0500
        Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-27 00:26 +0000
          Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2023-02-26 20:48 -0500
          Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-27 09:03 +0000
            Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-27 09:58 +0000
              Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-27 11:16 +0100
              Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-27 15:20 +0000
        Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-27 10:34 +0100
          Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-27 09:49 +0000
            Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-27 11:13 +0100
          Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-27 10:02 +0000
            Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-27 11:13 +0100
              Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-27 10:17 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2023-02-27 12:27 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-27 19:19 +0100
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-02-27 21:46 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-28 13:33 +0100
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-02-28 10:49 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-28 16:21 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-01 01:05 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2023-03-01 21:57 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-01 22:53 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2023-03-02 19:06 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-02 23:08 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2023-03-03 05:23 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-03 09:36 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-03-03 11:19 +0100
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2023-03-03 15:58 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-03-03 18:47 +0100
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2023-03-04 16:24 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-03-04 18:40 +0100
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-03 18:44 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2023-03-04 01:25 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2023-03-04 16:21 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28B.I874" <28B.I874@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-04 23:55 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2023-03-05 05:35 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Allodoxaphobia <trepidation@example.net> - 2023-03-05 13:48 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-05 14:01 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2023-03-05 19:16 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28B.I874" <28B.I874@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-06 00:43 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28B.I874" <28B.I874@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-06 00:42 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2023-02-28 12:01 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-01 01:17 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2023-02-28 04:13 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-28 13:16 +0100
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-01 01:32 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-01 10:30 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-01 22:48 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-02 09:41 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-02 23:39 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-03 09:28 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2023-03-03 12:16 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-04 01:36 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-04 07:15 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-04 02:47 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-04 01:12 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-04 06:51 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-04 03:32 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-04 09:54 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-04 10:09 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-04 11:22 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-04 11:58 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-05 16:43 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-06 09:20 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28B.I874" <28B.I874@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-04 20:24 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-05 13:40 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2023-03-05 11:29 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28B.I874" <28B.I874@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-06 01:21 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28B.I874" <28B.I874@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-06 01:06 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-06 09:28 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28B.I874" <28B.I874@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-06 08:54 -0500
  Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2023-02-26 17:35 -0500
    Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-26 23:39 +0000
      Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-02-26 22:42 -0500
    Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-27 10:45 +0100
  Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-26 23:31 +0000

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