Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it

From	"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc
Subject	Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it
Date	2023-02-28 13:33 +0100
Message-ID	<au81djx3vj.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <tthv4d$27bbi$22@dont-email.me> <vacucjxlnh.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <tthvvq$27bbi$26@dont-email.me> <5q8vcjxgqm.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <E_KcnbZiKM629mD-nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@earthlink.com>

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On 2023-02-28 03:46, 28A.I873 wrote:
> On 2/27/23 1:19 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2023-02-27 11:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 27/02/2023 10:13, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> On 2023-02-27 11:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> On 27/02/2023 09:34, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>>> On 2023-02-27 01:06, David W. Hodgins wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 26 Feb 2023 18:32:38 -0500, The Natural Philosopher 
>>>>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I am pretty sure generally NO.
>>>>>>>> Otherwise databases would have a hard time working
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Data base applications work by having one thread that does the
>>>>>>> physical i/o for each file that contains the database. Multiple
>>>>>>> applications can use the database, but they don't do the i/o to the
>>>>>>> disk.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not all database applications work that way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, in MsDOS an application could lock for write a 
>>>>>> section of a file, write that, then remove the lock. Another 
>>>>>> application could be reading the same file, even writing in 
>>>>>> another section.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This functionality was an add on: you needed to run the optional 
>>>>>> share.exe. But Windows had it natively.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe Microsoft Access works like that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not sure this behaviour can be done in Linux. Long ago it 
>>>>>> could not.
>>>>>>
>>>>> File lockining always existed at the level of IIRC whole files.
>>>>> But obliviously it is far far easier to have a databse engine 
>>>>> accepting all requests and using (at least) just one process, if 
>>>>> not one thread, to do all I/O
>>>>
>>>> Easier, depends. MS Access is trivially easy to use (for simple 
>>>> databases).
>>>>
>>> You call that a database? I dont. Any more than SqlLite is a 
>>> database...both are single user/process  access only.
>>
>> LOL
>>
>> Well, there is money in it ;-)
> 
>    Access has its place and uses - and the 3rd-gen drag-n-drop
>    form builder is something I wish they ALL had (ok, you CAN
>    have 'em - for $$$+). Where I'm at now the inventory DB is
>    on Access. Only one person uses it at a time anyhow and
>    several people have been able to figure out how to tweak
>    the forms/fields/etc a little, so ...
> 
>    Now for the more-used stuff ... SQL Server or (preferably)
>    MySQL (not MariaDB). Thing is I'm pretty much the only one
>    who can mod those and it ain't THAT long until retirement
>    and there's no proper heir-apparent ......... (damn that
>    work-ethic ..........)

We used MS Access at an ISP, back on 1998, for keeping track of second 
level (client) incidents. The team could be 6 people using the database 
at the same time (both read and write). There was one "database file" in 
a desktop machine acting as server for the group, and then several 
desktop machines running the application, which was another ms access 
file. Sharing directories on the network. I don't remember anybody 
reporting glitches related to concurrent access, besides two people 
trying to write to the same record, but that was very rare because of 
how we were organized.

Creating/maintaining the database and the applications/forms was 
trivially easy. Libre Office is getting _now_ near to what ms access did 
25 years ago. We could change our MS-A database in a day, even an hour, 
not involving higher management. And we could obtain stats and graphs 
which our management loved.

And MS Access was used because it was what the office people had access 
to (all computers were provided with a full MS Office instance), and we 
had people knowing it. The true enterprise database used Vantive.

So yes, MS Access is indeed a serious database used in the enterprise 
office world.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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Contents of file changed while application is reading it Clark Smith <noaddress@nowhere.net> - 2023-02-26 18:52 +0000
  Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2023-02-26 19:20 +0000
  Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2023-02-26 21:45 +0000
    Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-26 23:05 +0100
      Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-26 23:38 +0000
    Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-26 23:32 +0000
      Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2023-02-26 19:06 -0500
        Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-27 00:26 +0000
          Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2023-02-26 20:48 -0500
          Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-27 09:03 +0000
            Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-27 09:58 +0000
              Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-27 11:16 +0100
              Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-27 15:20 +0000
        Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-27 10:34 +0100
          Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-27 09:49 +0000
            Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-27 11:13 +0100
          Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-27 10:02 +0000
            Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-27 11:13 +0100
              Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-27 10:17 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2023-02-27 12:27 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-27 19:19 +0100
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-02-27 21:46 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-28 13:33 +0100
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-02-28 10:49 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-28 16:21 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-01 01:05 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2023-03-01 21:57 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-01 22:53 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2023-03-02 19:06 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-02 23:08 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2023-03-03 05:23 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-03 09:36 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-03-03 11:19 +0100
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2023-03-03 15:58 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-03-03 18:47 +0100
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2023-03-04 16:24 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-03-04 18:40 +0100
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-03 18:44 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2023-03-04 01:25 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2023-03-04 16:21 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28B.I874" <28B.I874@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-04 23:55 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2023-03-05 05:35 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Allodoxaphobia <trepidation@example.net> - 2023-03-05 13:48 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-05 14:01 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2023-03-05 19:16 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28B.I874" <28B.I874@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-06 00:43 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28B.I874" <28B.I874@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-06 00:42 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2023-02-28 12:01 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-01 01:17 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2023-02-28 04:13 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-28 13:16 +0100
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-01 01:32 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-01 10:30 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-01 22:48 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-02 09:41 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-02 23:39 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-03 09:28 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2023-03-03 12:16 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-04 01:36 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-04 07:15 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-04 02:47 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-04 01:12 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-04 06:51 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-04 03:32 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-04 09:54 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-04 10:09 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-04 11:22 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-04 11:58 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-05 16:43 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-06 09:20 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28B.I874" <28B.I874@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-04 20:24 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-05 13:40 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2023-03-05 11:29 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28B.I874" <28B.I874@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-06 01:21 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28B.I874" <28B.I874@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-06 01:06 -0500
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-06 09:28 +0000
                Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28B.I874" <28B.I874@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-06 08:54 -0500
  Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2023-02-26 17:35 -0500
    Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-26 23:39 +0000
      Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> - 2023-02-26 22:42 -0500
    Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-27 10:45 +0100
  Re: Contents of file changed while application is reading it The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-26 23:31 +0000

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