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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #72897
| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.os.linux.misc, alt.comp.os.windows-11 |
| Subject | Re: Soldered connections. |
| Date | 2025-09-01 13:34 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <avcgolxh1o.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> (permalink) |
| References | (21 earlier) <f5icnUXbt_1ufTL1nZ2dnZfqn_qdnZ2d@giganews.com> <f6r5olx0lg.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <6P6cndY_yqfjxS31nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> <ca7golx666.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <TOadnak8Xr4h6Cj1nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@giganews.com> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
On 2025-09-01 12:30, c186282 wrote: > On 9/1/25 5:58 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> On 2025-08-28 21:27, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>> On 2025-08-28 15:24, c186282 wrote: >>>> On 8/28/25 7:29 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>>>> On 2025-08-28 06:53, c186282 wrote: >>>>>> On 8/27/25 8:40 AM, Daniel70 wrote: >>>>>>> On 27/08/2025 9:06 pm, Graham J wrote: >>>>>>>> Paul wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [snip useful figures] >>> >>> ... >>> >>>>>> 120v requires slightly larger wires. You WANT 12ga but >>>>>> beware cheap-ass contractors who try to sneak in 14ga >>>>>> to save a few bucks. On the plus, 120v is less dangerous >>>>>> than 240v. >>>>> >>>>> Except fire-wise :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> Only if you let the contractor fudge it :-) >>>> >>>> If building a brand new house now I'd insist >>>> on 10ga for 20a breakers - a fair safety margin. >>>> Very worth the slight extra expense. >>>> >>>> A guy I know CAUGHT the contractor putting 14ga >>>> on 20a circuits - made him tear it all out and >>>> do-over. NEVER count on 'inspectors' - they >>>> don't WANT to see anything and some get brown >>>> envelopes full of cash too. >>> >>> Good. >>> >>> On most places, I guess the connections are not soldered, and rust is >>> a possibility. Then there are sockets and switches. They can heat up >>> after some years. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> My existing house is OLD - early '50s. Most of >>>> the original wiring was twist+SOLDER splices >>>> and industrial Romex and most is also in metal >>>> conduit. Don't know HOW they did solder in the >>>> old days - giant iron, pot ? DOES bar oxygen and >>>> corrosion though. The builder built it for HIMSELF >>>> and did live there for a few years. >>> >>> I re-wired part of my house, cables are soldered except at some >>> points when they go into some device. >> >> And now I have learned that soldered connections are prohibited by the >> code in most of the EU. It is considered dangerous. >> >> For an explanation, I had to ask chatgpt. I asked again (the original >> answer is gone from my browser), the answer is slightly different: >> >> >> Q: Could you explain why the electric code in the EU prohibits >> soldered connections? English, please. >> >> Yes, absolutely. In the **EU**, soldered connections are **not >> completely prohibited**, but their use is **restricted or >> discouraged** in **certain permanent wiring installations**, >> especially in fixed electrical systems like household or commercial >> building wiring. >> >> Here’s **why**: >> >> --- >> >> ### 🔧 **Soldered Connections Can Be Mechanically Weak** >> >> * **Solder alone doesn't provide strong mechanical strength.** >> If a wire is only soldered (without a mechanical connector like a >> terminal block or screw clamp), the connection can **break or loosen** >> under stress, vibration, or heat cycles. >> >> * **Solder can deform over time.** >> It softens at relatively low temperatures. If the connection heats >> up (even slightly under normal use), the solder may **creep** or >> **change shape**, causing a loose or unreliable connection. >> >> --- >> >> ### 🔥 **Fire Safety & Overheating Risks** >> >> * A **loose connection** increases electrical resistance, which can >> generate heat. >> * Over time, this can cause **overheating**, **insulation damage**, or >> even **fire**. >> * Because soldered joints are more likely to loosen, they are >> **considered less safe** in fixed installations where ongoing >> maintenance isn’t practical. >> >> --- >> >> ### 📘 **EU Wiring Standards – Specifically EN 60364 / IEC 60364** >> >> * These are the European and international standards for electrical >> installations. >> * They require that connections be **"durable, mechanically secure, >> and protected against stress."** >> * **Screw terminals, spring clamps, crimp connectors,** and other >> mechanical fasteners are **approved methods** because they ensure >> strong, reliable connections. >> >> --- >> >> ### ✔️ OK in Electronics, Not in Fixed Wiring >> >> * **Soldering is perfectly fine** and standard in **circuit boards**, >> electronics, and small appliances. >> * But in **fixed electrical wiring** (e.g. behind your walls), >> **soldering is discouraged or banned** as the sole method of connection. >> >> --- >> >> ### ✅ Bottom Line: >> >> > The EU restricts soldered connections in permanent wiring **because >> they are not mechanically reliable on their own**. Safe connections >> must be both **electrically sound** and **mechanically strong**, which >> solder alone doesn’t guarantee. >> >> Let me know if you'd like references from the standards or help with >> specific national codes like the UK’s BS 7671 (IET Wiring Regulations). > > > Ok ... first, you're not supposed to rely on the solder > for mechanical strength - hence the TWIST+solder dictum. Indeed. > > And THEN you put a twistie over it all ... and a little > tape wrap ain't bad either in case the plastic twistie > ever cracks. > > Second, skip the marginal wiring - solder may add a > zillionth of an ohm. On the PLUS though it excludes > oxygen and corrosives that WILL, later, cause bad > connections and fatal overheating. I believe well done soldered joints reduce the resistance. > > Fuses/breakers will NOT see those overheating connections. > > Sorry, don't know what "truths" UK regulators were > using here - maybe WORST POSSIBLE construction cases ? -- Cheers, Carlos.
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Re: Pickup trucks for city boys c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-28 00:53 -0400
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-28 13:29 +0200
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-28 09:24 -0400
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-28 18:30 +0000
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-28 21:27 +0200
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-28 23:13 +0000
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-29 15:06 +0200
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-29 19:01 +0100
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-29 18:09 +0000
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-29 19:51 +0100
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-29 22:08 +0200
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-29 10:16 -0400
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-29 03:13 -0400
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-29 15:16 +0200
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-29 10:46 -0400
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-29 19:14 +0100
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-29 22:15 +0200
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-29 19:04 +0100
Soldered connections. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-01 11:58 +0200
Re: Soldered connections. c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-01 06:30 -0400
Re: Soldered connections. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-01 12:18 +0100
Re: Soldered connections. rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-01 19:43 +0000
Re: Soldered connections. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-01 13:34 +0200
Re: Soldered connections. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-01 12:43 +0100
Re: Soldered connections. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-01 14:13 +0200
Re: Soldered connections. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-02 21:22 +0000
Halogen lamps. [Was: Soldered connections.] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-03 00:36 +0200
Re: Halogen lamps. [Was: Soldered connections.] Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> - 2025-09-03 15:03 +0100
Re: Soldered connections. c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-03 02:03 -0400
Re: Soldered connections. rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-03 08:19 +0000
Re: Soldered connections. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-03 13:45 +0200
Re: Soldered connections. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-04 03:28 +0000
Re: Soldered connections. c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-01 08:00 -0400
Re: Soldered connections. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-01 14:16 +0200
Re: Soldered connections. Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-09-01 19:28 +0000
Re: Soldered connections. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-01 21:49 +0200
Re: Soldered connections. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-01 11:38 +0100
Re: Soldered connections. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-01 13:41 +0200
Re: Soldered connections. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-01 13:32 +0100
Re: Soldered connections. Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-02 11:15 +0100
Storey "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-02 12:28 +0200
Re: Soldered connections. Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-09-02 21:59 +1000
Re: Soldered connections. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-02 14:52 +0100
Re: Soldered connections. c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-03 00:45 -0400
Re: Soldered connections. Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-09-03 21:17 +1000
Re: Soldered connections. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-03 12:31 +0100
Re: Soldered connections. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-03 13:46 +0200
Re: Soldered connections. Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-09-03 22:03 +1000
Re: Soldered connections. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-03 14:27 +0200
Re: Soldered connections. Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-09-03 08:19 -0700
Re: Soldered connections. c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-03 07:58 -0400
Re: Soldered connections. Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-09-03 08:03 -0700
Re: Soldered connections. Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> - 2025-09-02 15:24 +0100
Re: Soldered connections. Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-02 17:30 +0100
Re: Soldered connections. Don_from_AZ <djatechNOSPAM@comcast.net.invalid> - 2025-09-02 09:39 -0700
Re: Soldered connections. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-02 20:03 +0200
Re: Soldered connections. Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-09-02 11:50 -0700
Re: Soldered connections. Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-09-03 21:27 +1000
Re: Soldered connections. rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-02 19:27 +0000
Re: Soldered connections. Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-09-03 21:28 +1000
Re: Soldered connections. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-02 21:22 +0000
Re: Soldered connections. Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-09-03 21:34 +1000
Re: Soldered connections. c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-03 07:49 -0400
Re: Soldered connections. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-03 14:29 +0200
Re: Soldered connections. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-03 13:51 +0200
Re: Soldered connections. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-02 20:01 +0200
Re: Soldered connections. c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-03 01:30 -0400
Re: Soldered connections. Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-09-03 21:36 +1000
Re: Soldered connections. c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-03 01:07 -0400
Re: Soldered connections. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-04 03:28 +0000
Re: Soldered connections. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-04 12:00 +0200
Re: Soldered connections. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-04 11:28 +0100
Re: Soldered connections. Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-09-04 22:36 +1000
Re: Soldered connections. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-04 13:52 +0100
Re: Soldered connections. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-04 17:53 +0200
Re: Soldered connections. rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-04 18:14 +0000
Re: Soldered connections. Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-09-03 21:20 +1000
Re: Soldered connections. rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-02 19:24 +0000
Re: Soldered connections. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-02 20:36 +0100
Floors [Was: Soldered connections.] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-02 22:03 +0200
Re: Floors [Was: Soldered connections.] Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-09-03 22:12 +1000
Re: Soldered connections. c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-09-03 01:57 -0400
Re: Soldered connections. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-03 10:14 +0100
Re: Soldered connections. Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-09-03 22:08 +1000
Re: Soldered connections. Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-09-03 22:10 +1000
Re: Soldered connections. rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-02 19:19 +0000
Re: Soldered connections. Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-02 22:57 +0100
Re: Soldered connections. Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-02 23:55 +0000
Re: Soldered connections. rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-01 19:39 +0000
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-08-28 23:07 +1000
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-28 18:31 +0000
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-29 06:50 +0000
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-29 04:07 -0400
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-29 18:54 +0000
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-29 18:47 +0000
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> - 2025-08-29 20:49 +1000
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-29 18:28 +0000
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-29 22:26 +0200
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-30 04:10 +0000
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-30 01:09 -0400
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-31 14:29 +0200
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-31 18:03 +0000
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-31 21:46 +0200
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-31 14:24 +0200
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-31 18:58 +0000
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-31 21:46 +0200
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-01 01:02 +0000
Non glamorous military things "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-01 11:38 +0200
Re: Pickup trucks for city boys Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-29 23:51 +0000
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