Re: More systemdCrap

From	"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc
Subject	Re: More systemdCrap
Date	2025-03-11 13:21 +0100
Message-ID	<5fm5alx305.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> (permalink)
References	(4 earlier) <vqnja1$1hrbi$1@dont-email.me> <rq44alxv4u.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <vqopm8$1s78c$1@dont-email.me> <vqp6oq$1ueuu$1@dont-email.me> <vqp7ig$1uag5$1@dont-email.me>

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On 2025-03-11 12:42, Pancho wrote:
> On 3/11/25 11:28, John McCue wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>>> It would be very easy to scan the file and copy to a new one deleting
>>> specific instances to remove certain classes of logs, but the
>>> programmers were too lazy and arrogant to be bothered to do it
>>
>> IIRC, from articles I read, this journal is a binary file
>> with some form of database type keys.  So I would think if
>> it has keys, a function would exist where one can delete a
>> group of entries similar to what you can do via SQL or in
>> the old Berkeley D/B.
>>
>> But based upon this thread, that cannot be done.  So I see
>> it as a "miss" on the systemd people.  I would think such a
>> function would be kind of easy to do.
>>
>> This looks like some kind of key to me :)
>>
>> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Systemd/Journal#Facility
>>
>> <snip>
>>
> 
> It is not clear to me if this is a flaw or an advantage. Where the OS is 
> used for important/critical processing, it is clearly an advantage to 
> have a reliable audit trail. No updates or deletions, if you want to 
> alter the way it looks you make additional entries, corrections. This 
> pattern works fine for accounting systems.

Exactly.

> 
> I guess the only real downside for OS logging is additional log space 
> required. It should be possible to achieve virtual deletions with 
> persistent filtering entries. Maybe they intend to do this, or maybe 
> they feel people should be happy with filtering as is, and it is an 
> unnecessary complexity.

No, they decided to not implement deletion or filtering of the contents 
inside the files. You may not agree with that, but that's their choice. 
It is free software, you are free to take up the code and implement the 
"missing" features. It is some sort of database. But perhaps that breaks 
structural integrity and doesn't work.

> 
> It is also worth mentioning that supporting one type of logging for 
> mission-critical systems and another type for TNP's heating system, by 
> default, may introduce additional complexity in itself.
> 
> I quite like systemd, not because it is good, but because it is 
> standard, good enough.
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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Thread

More systemdCrap The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-10 16:29 +0000
  Re: More systemdCrap Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2025-03-10 14:12 -0400
    Re: More systemdCrap The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-10 18:40 +0000
      Re: More systemdCrap "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-10 19:45 +0100
        Re: More systemdCrap The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-10 20:50 +0000
          Re: More systemdCrap "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-10 23:14 +0100
            Re: More systemdCrap John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-03-10 15:28 -0700
              Re: More systemdCrap The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-11 07:58 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-11 13:17 +0100
                Re: More systemdCrap The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-11 14:50 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-11 15:59 +0100
                Re: More systemdCrap The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-11 15:29 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 08:41 -0700
                Re: More systemdCrap D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-11 22:36 +0100
                Re: More systemdCrap Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-11 23:47 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-11 23:46 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-11 23:44 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-03-12 09:07 -0700
                Re: More systemdCrap Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-12 21:38 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 07:59 -0700
                Re: More systemdCrap John McCue <jmccue@qball.jmcunx.com> - 2025-03-11 17:37 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-11 23:42 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-12 22:10 +0100
                Re: More systemdCrap Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-12 21:38 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-12 23:42 +0100
                Re: More systemdCrap Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-13 00:12 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-13 08:21 +0100
                Re: More systemdCrap Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-13 08:06 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-03-11 08:33 -0400
                Re: More systemdCrap The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-11 14:52 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-03-11 15:50 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 08:59 -0700
                Re: More systemdCrap Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-03-11 16:12 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 09:19 -0700
                Re: More systemdCrap Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-03-11 16:25 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-11 20:02 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-11 22:38 +0100
                Re: More systemdCrap "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-12 22:14 +0100
                Re: More systemdCrap "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-12 22:12 +0100
                Re: More systemdCrap John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-03-12 14:50 -0700
                Re: More systemdCrap "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-12 23:44 +0100
                Re: More systemdCrap The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-11 19:58 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap D <nospam@example.net> - 2025-03-11 22:37 +0100
                Re: More systemdCrap Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-11 23:07 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> - 2025-03-11 11:32 -0400
                Re: More systemdCrap Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-11 23:07 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-12 22:26 +0100
            Re: More systemdCrap The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-11 07:45 +0000
              Re: More systemdCrap John McCue <jmccue@qball.jmcunx.com> - 2025-03-11 11:28 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-03-11 11:42 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-11 13:21 +0100
                Re: More systemdCrap Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-11 23:04 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-03-14 20:22 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-03-15 22:39 -0400
                Re: More systemdCrap The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-11 14:45 +0000
      Re: More systemdCrap Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2025-03-10 16:33 -0400
      Re: More systemdCrap Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2025-03-10 16:37 -0400
        Re: More systemdCrap The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-10 20:53 +0000
          Re: More systemdCrap "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-10 23:17 +0100
            Re: More systemdCrap Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-10 23:33 +0000
              Re: More systemdCrap "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-11 13:23 +0100
                Re: More systemdCrap The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-11 14:51 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-11 20:56 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-11 21:05 +0000
            Re: More systemdCrap The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-11 07:49 +0000
              Re: More systemdCrap "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-11 13:27 +0100
                Re: More systemdCrap The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-11 14:51 +0000
              Re: More systemdCrap Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-11 20:56 +0000
          Re: More systemdCrap Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 10:21 -0400
            Re: More systemdCrap Harold Stevens <wookie@aspen.localdomain> - 2025-03-11 09:47 -0500
              Re: More systemdCrap The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-11 14:53 +0000
  Re: More systemdCrap Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-13 07:47 +0000
    Re: More systemdCrap "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-13 09:37 +0100
      Re: More systemdCrap Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-13 22:07 +0000
        Re: More systemdCrap "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-14 12:57 +0100
          Re: More systemdCrap Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-14 21:30 +0000
            Re: More systemdCrap vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-15 03:19 +0000
            Re: More systemdCrap "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-16 14:48 +0100
              Re: More systemdCrap Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-17 00:40 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-18 20:03 +0100
                Re: More systemdCrap Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-18 21:20 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-18 22:51 +0100
                Re: More systemdCrap Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-18 22:06 +0000
                Re: More systemdCrap "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-19 01:29 +0100
                Re: More systemdCrap The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-19 06:31 +0000

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