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Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need)

From John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc
Subject Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need)
Date 2026-02-13 11:30 -0800
Organization A place where nothing fits quite right
Message-ID <20260213113012.0000347e@gmail.com> (permalink)
References (17 earlier) <10m5knv$h5mp$1@dont-email.me> <20260206135513.00001a9e@gmail.com> <wwv4intijzi.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk> <20260206144316.00001326@gmail.com> <wwvo6m0d0r1.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>

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On Sat, 07 Feb 2026 15:36:18 +0000
Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> > It's just arbitrary and weird.  
> 
> It’s not like Java has a monopoly on being arbitrary and weird!
> 
> [...]
> 
> I’d suggest that any language that doesn’t start out with odd corners
> like this will grow them over time as it responds to new thinking, new
> requirements, etc.

True enough, and it is to some degree a question of taste - but Java
does, to my mind, strike a particular balance of vices that remind me
of the main thrust of Kernighan's criticism of Pascal: not only does it
suffer from misfeatures and frustrations, but it provides no real way
to work around them from within itself.

To a lesser extent, at least; the core language *does* allow the
programmer to define new constructs that can be used (to some extent)
in place of existing ones, whereas vanilla Pascal didn't. If I don't
like the organization of the Math class, f'rexample, I'm free create my
own. But there are practical limits to this - I can't snap my fingers
and make everything *else* in the standard library recognize MyMath's
way of doing things. The deeper some annoyance lies within the system,
the more you'd have to uproot in order to fix it.

And other things *can't* be solved by roll-your-own means. You can't
make it less logorrheic or work around the lack of global functions by:

#define print System.out.println

...or somesuch, because Gosling & co. didn't see fit to provide a pre-
processor. You could use an external preprocessor, but you'd have to
figure out how to fit it into the toolchain yourself.

All languages are to some extent a reflection of their designers' pre-
conceptions about programming (except for the occasional committe-born
elephantine monstrosity that tries to encompass every paradigm & please
everyone, and is inevitably used by noone,) but the better ones show at
least some awareness of the fact that different people will do things
differently. Java isn't as blinkered as Pascal was back in the day, but
it still strikes me as something that's really only designed for people
who think like its designers.

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Thread

Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-02-02 14:50 +0000
  Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-02 15:07 +0000
    Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-02 21:19 +0000
      Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-02 21:03 -0500
      Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-03 08:52 +0000
      Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-03 12:57 +0000
        Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-03 13:53 -0500
          Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-04 11:51 +0000
            Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-04 22:09 -0500
  Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-02 20:50 -0500
    Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-03 02:58 +0000
      Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-02 22:23 -0500
        Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-03 19:57 +0000
          Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-04 11:52 +0000
      Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-02-02 20:20 -0800
        Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-03 00:18 -0500
          Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-02-04 04:18 +0000
            Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-03 23:45 -0500
              Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-02-04 05:14 +0000
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-04 00:51 -0500
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-04 08:24 +0000
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-04 11:56 +0000
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-04 14:50 +0000
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-04 16:44 +0000
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-04 09:15 -0800
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-02-04 19:26 +0000
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-04 22:00 +0000
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-05 08:32 -0500
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-04 23:02 -0500
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-04 21:58 +0000
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-04 22:34 -0500
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-04 19:58 +0000
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-04 15:09 -0500
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-02-04 13:05 -0800
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-04 22:04 +0000
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-04 23:54 -0500
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-04 22:03 +0000
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-04 23:49 -0500
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-05 08:29 -0500
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-05 14:06 +0000
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-02-05 14:59 +0000
                C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-05 08:06 -0800
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-02-05 16:33 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-05 18:12 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-05 22:40 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-06 04:54 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-05 17:33 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-05 09:57 -0800
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-06 04:12 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-06 00:03 -0500
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-06 11:28 -0800
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-02-06 20:03 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-06 20:59 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-06 13:55 -0800
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-06 22:29 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-06 14:43 -0800
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-07 15:36 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-07 20:49 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-02-07 21:26 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-07 22:00 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-02-09 06:53 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-08 01:55 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-08 08:30 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-02-09 06:53 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-08 11:04 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-08 20:07 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-13 11:30 -0800
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-13 21:40 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-13 21:48 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-14 07:06 -0500
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-14 00:41 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-02-14 07:16 -0500
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-07 11:53 +0000
                Re: C/C++ timeline (was Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-09 09:21 -0800
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-05 22:38 +0000
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-06 05:05 +0000
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-02-05 15:55 +0100
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-05 17:26 +0000
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-04 22:12 +0000
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-04 23:35 -0500
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-04 22:16 -0500
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-04 22:13 -0500
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-04 21:42 -0500
                Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-05 09:28 +0000
                Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-02-05 13:45 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-05 14:14 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-02-05 15:09 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-05 16:03 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-02-06 22:32 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-07 01:12 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-06 21:59 -0500
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-07 12:15 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-07 16:01 -0500
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-07 11:09 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-07 12:10 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-05 19:27 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-05 20:51 -0500
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-06 10:45 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-06 21:44 -0500
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-07 12:29 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-07 16:31 -0500
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-08 10:25 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-08 20:13 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-08 22:39 -0500
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-09 04:58 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-09 10:04 -0800
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-09 23:39 -0500
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-10 08:00 -0800
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-10 23:02 -0500
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-11 06:57 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-11 20:22 -0500
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-12 04:48 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-12 01:04 -0500
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-12 12:52 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-02-12 21:36 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-02-13 00:02 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-13 00:09 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-13 10:18 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-02-09 09:56 -0800
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-05 20:48 -0500
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-06 10:42 +0000
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-02-06 21:31 -0500
                Re: Memory Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-07 12:23 +0000
                Memory Allocatiuon Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-02-05 13:37 +0000
                Re: Memory Allocatiuon Safety (Re: Python: A Little Trick For Every Need) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-05 14:03 +0000

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