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Re: The Web (HTML) Sux

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From John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc
Subject Re: The Web (HTML) Sux
Date Tue, 23 Dec 2025 14:19:50 -0800
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On Tue, 23 Dec 2025 21:45:34 -0000 (UTC)
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> > *A.* that's not what a straw-man argument is ...
> > ... Obviously, having trouble with a misbehaving website is a
> > smaller thing than burning to death in a badly-renovated apartment
> > building.  
> 
> You say no, and then you say yes.

A straw-man argument is, to quote Wikipedia, "the informal fallacy of
refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion,
while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction." Shoddy work-
manship (in apartment renovation) is a *smaller* thing than shoddy
workmanship (in web design,) but not, fundamentally, a *different* one.

> See, conflating opinions on aesthetics with issues of “workmanship”
> (quality of product) is another strawman.

Both aesthetics and functionality have been points of discussion in
this thread; I've been focusing primarily on the latter, though I do
maintain that bad design patterns employed in pursuit of aesthetics
often have functional impacts as well.

F'rexample, there are major websites where key layout and navigation
buttons are positioned off-screen depending on your resolution - not
even on, like, an ancient 640x480 display, but on *anything* smaller
than 1920x1080. That kind of design philosophy should've died with the
<BLINK> tag and "best viewed with XYZ" buttons.

(Of course, the "best viewed with XYZ" attitude itself is alive and
well today, in the form of sites that redirect all user agents outside
of the Approved Browser List to a FOAD-you-heathen page...)

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Thread

The Web (HTML) Sux Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> - 2025-12-20 11:41 +0000
  Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> - 2025-12-20 15:13 +0000
    Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-12-20 16:24 +0000
      Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> - 2025-12-20 16:33 +0000
        Re: The Web (HTML) Sux "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-20 19:47 +0100
    Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2025-12-20 17:20 +0000
      Re: The Web (HTML) Sux 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 <jmj@energokod.gda.pl> - 2025-12-20 21:10 +0100
      Re: The Web (HTML) Sux 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 <jmj@energokod.gda.pl> - 2025-12-20 21:35 +0100
        Re: The Web (HTML) Sux 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 <jmj@energokod.gda.pl> - 2025-12-20 21:49 +0100
      Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-20 20:45 +0000
        Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-21 02:04 +0000
        Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-21 02:08 +0000
      Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-21 02:03 +0000
        Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-21 11:27 +0000
          Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-21 13:52 +0000
            Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-21 18:17 +0000
              Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-21 22:42 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-22 01:50 -0500
            Re: The Web (HTML) Sux not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-12-22 08:14 +1000
              Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-22 13:58 -0800
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-22 22:27 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-22 14:43 -0800
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-22 23:12 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-22 15:37 -0800
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-22 23:45 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-23 01:50 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-23 02:20 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-23 09:59 -0800
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-23 20:38 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-23 13:41 -0800
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-23 21:45 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-23 14:19 -0800
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 12:45 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 12:15 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-12-27 07:56 +1000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-29 19:06 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-29 19:54 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-29 18:57 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-23 22:48 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-23 15:23 -0800
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-23 23:40 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 12:59 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-24 19:08 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 12:58 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-23 23:51 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-24 00:49 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 12:50 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-29 19:10 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-29 18:09 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-23 21:18 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux kouya <kouyaheika@canithesis.org> - 2025-12-24 06:25 -0600
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-24 19:11 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux kouya <kouyaheika@canithesis.org> - 2025-12-24 20:01 -0600
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-25 03:18 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux kouya <kouyaheika@canithesis.org> - 2025-12-24 21:34 -0600
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-25 03:49 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux kouya <kouyaheika@canithesis.org> - 2025-12-24 22:01 -0600
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-25 04:52 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux kouya <kouyaheika@canithesis.org> - 2025-12-24 23:07 -0600
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-12-25 12:33 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-12-25 12:30 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 11:45 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-29 19:16 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-29 19:14 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-25 03:30 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-25 21:05 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-25 22:11 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 11:55 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-26 18:12 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-26 18:45 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 19:23 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-26 21:09 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-25 22:38 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 07:13 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-26 08:35 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 11:50 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-12-26 14:43 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-12-27 08:29 +1000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-27 04:05 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-27 09:46 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-27 13:10 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-27 23:35 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-27 09:58 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-27 23:41 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-27 13:04 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-27 13:04 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-27 23:24 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-28 14:46 +0100
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-29 03:48 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 11:36 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-26 08:42 -0800
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 19:21 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-26 21:10 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 11:43 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 11:41 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 11:37 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-26 08:38 -0800
      Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-21 02:06 +0000
        Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-21 02:55 +0000
  Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-12-27 18:22 +0000

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