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Re: The Web (HTML) Sux

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From John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc
Subject Re: The Web (HTML) Sux
Date Tue, 23 Dec 2025 09:59:21 -0800
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On Mon, 22 Dec 2025 23:45:56 -0000 (UTC)
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> > Separation of form from content does *not* mean that web designers
> > are obligated to use overwrought, kludgy, or abusive design patterns
> > that the user then has to direct their browser to ignore. That's an
> > absurd thing to say.  
> 
> “Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder” would seem to be the most
> polite response.

You can argue that it's a matter of taste if you like. For myself, I am
entirely comfortable saying that overwrought, kludgy, and (especially)
abusive patterns are *objectively bad web design,* in the same way that
the people in charge of Grenfell Tower were engaging in objectively bad
architectural renovations (thankfully, fewer people die as a result of
bad web design, most years,) and that web designers who employ them are
bad and should stop.

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Thread

The Web (HTML) Sux Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> - 2025-12-20 11:41 +0000
  Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> - 2025-12-20 15:13 +0000
    Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-12-20 16:24 +0000
      Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> - 2025-12-20 16:33 +0000
        Re: The Web (HTML) Sux "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-20 19:47 +0100
    Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2025-12-20 17:20 +0000
      Re: The Web (HTML) Sux 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 <jmj@energokod.gda.pl> - 2025-12-20 21:10 +0100
      Re: The Web (HTML) Sux 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 <jmj@energokod.gda.pl> - 2025-12-20 21:35 +0100
        Re: The Web (HTML) Sux 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 <jmj@energokod.gda.pl> - 2025-12-20 21:49 +0100
      Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-20 20:45 +0000
        Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-21 02:04 +0000
        Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-21 02:08 +0000
      Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-21 02:03 +0000
        Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-21 11:27 +0000
          Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-21 13:52 +0000
            Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-21 18:17 +0000
              Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-21 22:42 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-22 01:50 -0500
            Re: The Web (HTML) Sux not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-12-22 08:14 +1000
              Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-22 13:58 -0800
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-22 22:27 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-22 14:43 -0800
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-22 23:12 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-22 15:37 -0800
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-22 23:45 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-23 01:50 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-23 02:20 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-23 09:59 -0800
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-23 20:38 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-23 13:41 -0800
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-23 21:45 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-23 14:19 -0800
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 12:45 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 12:15 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-12-27 07:56 +1000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-29 19:06 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-29 19:54 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-29 18:57 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-23 22:48 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-23 15:23 -0800
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-23 23:40 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 12:59 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-24 19:08 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 12:58 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-23 23:51 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-24 00:49 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 12:50 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-29 19:10 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-29 18:09 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-23 21:18 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux kouya <kouyaheika@canithesis.org> - 2025-12-24 06:25 -0600
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-24 19:11 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux kouya <kouyaheika@canithesis.org> - 2025-12-24 20:01 -0600
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-25 03:18 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux kouya <kouyaheika@canithesis.org> - 2025-12-24 21:34 -0600
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-25 03:49 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux kouya <kouyaheika@canithesis.org> - 2025-12-24 22:01 -0600
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-25 04:52 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux kouya <kouyaheika@canithesis.org> - 2025-12-24 23:07 -0600
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-12-25 12:33 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-12-25 12:30 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 11:45 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-29 19:16 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-29 19:14 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-25 03:30 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-25 21:05 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-25 22:11 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 11:55 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-26 18:12 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-26 18:45 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 19:23 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-26 21:09 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-25 22:38 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 07:13 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-26 08:35 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 11:50 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-12-26 14:43 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-12-27 08:29 +1000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-27 04:05 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-27 09:46 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-27 13:10 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-27 23:35 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-27 09:58 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-27 23:41 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-27 13:04 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-27 13:04 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-27 23:24 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-28 14:46 +0100
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-29 03:48 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 11:36 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-26 08:42 -0800
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 19:21 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-26 21:10 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 11:43 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 11:41 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 11:37 +0000
                Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-26 08:38 -0800
      Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-21 02:06 +0000
        Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-21 02:55 +0000
  Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-12-27 18:22 +0000

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