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Re: Underground fires

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On 2025-12-20 18:14, Paul wrote:
> On Sat, 12/20/2025 7:15 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>>
>> Garbage should be burnt (if burnt at all) in a high temperature oven with filters for toxic fumes.
> 
> An entrepreneur tried this and eventually gave up.
> The process was not clean enough to be used, without consequences.
> 
> Any of the chemists I graduated with, could have told this person it won't work.
> 
> It might have been something like dioxin. There was never a "final report"
> or "lessons learned", to put a stop to someone else trying it.

Well, there are countries doing it, and they claim to be happy about it. 
Switzerland, for instance.

> 
>     "When plastic burns, it releases a cocktail of harmful chemicals into the air.
>      These include dioxins, furans, mercury, and polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs).
>      Dioxins, in particular, are known carcinogens and can cause reproductive and
>      developmental problems, damage the immune system, and interfere with hormones."
> 
> There is a difference between filtering a truly trace chemical, and buckets
> of bad stuff coming out the bottom of the rig.
> 
> This is what happens when the consumption method is not at a high enough
> temperature. Raising the temperature of the process, increases the
> price per ton, of the processing. But humans will "try to burn that shit
> with gasoline", and even with a pure oxygen supply for help (dangerous),
> the temperature of the output reactants is too low. Only a few combustive
> gas mixtures, give relatively high output temperatures, and usually involve
> relatively tiny molecules. It's possible an acceptable combustion process
> needs three times that temperature, a plasma of some kind maybe. You can't
> get there with combustion, it's going to take something a lot more whizzy
> (and energy consumptive).
> 
> The Sun would make a good garbage bucket. But you'd have to find an article
> that analyzes the consequences (other than the cost per ton of launching
> garbage).
> 
> A fusion reactor gets nice and warm. The ignition facility (NIF) in the States
> used for fusion research, the target zone there gets nice and warm, but
> this is hardly cheap kit to be burning garbage. In the fusion reactor,
> you're ruin the containment walls, with discarded tomato sandwich splatter :-)
> 
>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Ignition_Facility#/media/File:NIF_target_chamber_2.jpg
> 
> There are continuing comments in the local news, about "solving our garbage
> problem by burning it". I was born in a city that did this, burned garbage
> in a relatively low temperature incinerator. I've been to that incinerator
> in a pickup truck. The tailgate fell off our truck, into the pit which buffers
> the garbage fed into the incinerator. It's 200 feet down. There is a ladder on
> the side of the pit, covered in slime, for you to climb down :-) Well, the
> crane operator at the pit was a champ. He picked up our tailgate with the
> bucket scoop jaws, pulled it up the two hundred feet, and deposited it
> on the ground next to the offload area. It was "only a little bit bent".
> 
> That incinerator used to shower us in soot and fallen debris. Any washing
> outside, would get covered in debris and need to be washed again. It all
> depended on the wind direction, as to who got the "output".
> 
> They don't do that any more. But I bet the politicians reminisce about
> how "successful" that operation was. Today, there is a lawn over top of
> everything that went on there, and methane vent pipes on the premises.
> That garbage today, is like most cities, driven out of town on 40 foot trailers
> and such.
> 
> Today, a new town dump costs about $500,000,000 to build, and has a
> liner in the bottom to collect toxic fluids. That figure, is what
> stokes all this interest in combustion :-)


I agree with you, but some people tell me that the EU sanctioned way is 
an incinerator.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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Re: Shopping carts, baskets, bags... c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-15 00:57 -0500
  Re: Shopping carts, baskets, bags... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-16 21:42 +0100
    Re: Shopping carts, baskets, bags... Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-12-16 16:29 -0800
      Re: Shopping carts, baskets, bags... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-17 01:09 +0000
      Re: Shopping carts, baskets, bags... c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-17 01:24 -0500
        Re: Shopping carts, baskets, bags... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-17 06:53 +0000
      Re: Shopping carts, baskets, bags... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-18 22:47 +0100
    Re: Shopping carts, baskets, bags... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-17 00:51 +0000
      Re: Shopping carts, baskets, bags... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-18 22:46 +0100
        Re: Shopping carts, baskets, bags... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-19 02:01 +0000
          Re: Shopping carts, baskets, bags... Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2025-12-19 00:58 -0600
            Re: Shopping carts, baskets, bags... c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-19 02:46 -0500
            Re: Shopping carts, baskets, bags... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-19 08:22 +0000
              Re: Shopping carts, baskets, bags... Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2025-12-19 13:16 -0600
          Underground fires "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-19 22:28 +0100
            Re: Underground fires rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-20 04:48 +0000
              Re: Underground fires "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-20 13:15 +0100
                Re: Underground fires Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-12-20 12:14 -0500
                Re: Underground fires "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-20 19:46 +0100
                Re: Underground fires Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-12-20 16:42 -0500
                Re: Underground fires "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-20 23:09 +0100
                Re: Underground fires The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-21 02:11 +0000
                Re: Underground fires rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-21 01:34 +0000
                Burning things. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-26 22:42 +0100
                Re: Underground fires c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-21 15:24 -0500
                Re: Underground fires rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-21 23:10 +0000
                Re: Underground fires Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-12-21 15:34 -0800
                Re: Underground fires rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-22 06:47 +0000
                Re: Underground fires c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-22 02:08 -0500
                Re: Underground fires c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-22 01:53 -0500
                Re: Underground fires Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-12-22 21:46 +1100
                Re: Underground fires c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-22 07:35 -0500
                Re: Underground fires Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-12-23 21:31 +1100
                Re: Underground fires Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-12-23 06:40 -0500
                Re: Underground fires The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-23 12:41 +0000
                Re: Underground fires Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-23 21:18 +0000
                Re: Underground fires Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-12-24 20:43 +1100
                Re: Underground fires The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 13:12 +0000
                Re: Underground fires Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-12-24 20:26 +1100
                OT: Garbage disposal meets rocket science (was: Re: Underground fires) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 11:19 +0000
                Re: Underground fires The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 13:04 +0000
                Re: Underground fires c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-24 04:55 -0500
                Re: Underground fires The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 13:13 +0000
                Re: Underground fires Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-12-23 11:43 -0800
                Re: Underground fires pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> - 2025-12-24 09:04 -0800
                Re: Underground fires "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-27 12:37 +0100
                Re: Underground fires c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-27 11:44 -0500
                Toxics... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-26 22:47 +0100
              Re: Underground fires Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-12-21 22:11 +1100
                Re: Underground fires rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-21 20:34 +0000
        Re: Shopping carts, baskets, bags... c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-19 02:12 -0500

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